Thread: A Return to Nationalism

Originally Posted by Newmexican

crikey wrote.

Quite untrue.. people from countries like India for instance are among the best educated and highest earning households in the US. The statement about immigrants spreading disease is flat out not true.

You are correct. I incorrectly wrote immigrants instead of illegal immigrants and it makes big difference. That was an oversight/typing error and I thank you for pointing it out.

I believe that people that come here legally want to be part of this country, not just an appendage to it and I applaud and welcome legal immigrants.

I have several friends, that are now citizens, that have immigrated legally from India, Mexico and Greece and I have had the priviledge of attending 3 naturalization ceremonies. Not one of these friends likes the fact that people come here illegally and get away with it.

Nobody likes illegal immigration. I was mostly reacting to statements such as "until Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration law that opened the floodgates to Third World immigration to the USA. For a full discussion of this massive demographic change, please read "Death of the West" by Pat Buchanan." and of course one of the replies where it was claimed that immigrants from third world countries spread diseases and so on. The problem is that often times I find that under the surface, an opposition to illegal immigration is nothing more than an opposition to all immigration from non-white countries which is unfortunate.

Otherwise let me break down some aspects of illegal immigration as I see it. Firstly there are things about some illegals that are bad. Their lack of linguistic assimilation for instance or the phenomenon of drug related crimes that is a small but disturbing part of migrants who cross over from the south of the border. All this is true, but at the same time we need to recognize that most Mexicans who migrate illegally are good people who are looking for a better life with no intent to harm Americans. The reason they migrate illegally while risking their lives is simply because (a) there are jobs attracting them here that pay better than in Mexico and (b) they have no legal options - unlike the European settlers of the 19th and 20th centuries who had very few restrictions on immigrating from Europe. Once illegals are inside the US, their options to assimilate are not going to be very many.. the fear of deportation ensures that most will never assimilate and this leads to the creation of an underground class that will very easily be exploited by ruthless employers who only want cheap labor. It is easy for an employer to pay less than minimum wage to an illegal because the illegal won't complain due to a fear of deportation. This indirectly depresses the wages of low skilled Americans or makes it hard for them to compete against illegals. So we have a vicious cycle. People get upset about illegal immigrants and demand draconian laws. This drives illegals even more underground and makes it very difficult for them to assimilate. This puts other Americans at a disadvantage and so on. So when people direct their rage at illegals, they actually make the problem worse for both the illegal and the low skilled American worker. One finds it harder to assimilate while the other can't compete for a job due to depressed wages. We are all worse off living in such a society.

Originally Posted by pattyk

Cricky, you said you checked and cant find any mexican nationals on death row. Well I found 51. *Vibrant* enough for ya?

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/deathpenalty ... -in-texas/

Fair enough Pattyk, I wasn't thorough enough earlier. I see now that there are 58 total on death row in the US (out of more than 3200 total but its not clear how many if any are illegal). In any case, as I said before, most studies confirm that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes because the punishment usually will include deportation. The fact that crime rates have declined in most big cities in the US since the 90s despite increasing immigration confirms this.

Originally Posted by PatriotofPast

"If you cant take care of YOURSELF... How the Hell do you expect to take care of your Family?"...
Now I put those same words towards the United States... If we dont take care of ourselves FIRST, how will we help the rest of the World?

Indeed! Why is it so hard for people to understand this?! If we go bankrupt giving foreign aid all over the world, that doesn't help us or anyone else, yet many are so opposed to stopping foreign aid.

Are any of the presidential candidates besides Ron Paul saying this?

Originally Posted by Angel43

Originally Posted by JohnnyYuma

Originally Posted by Angel43

Crikey is intentionally confusing data that includes legal law abiding immigrants with illegal aliens.

One group has show us a pattern of adhering to laws.

The illegal immigrant group shows patterns of breaking our laws.

Apples and oranges.

That's what I thought. You just come on here and accuse, baselessly. When you come up with some proof I am pro-illegal alien, let us know. Otherwise, your just another troll.

I've never said one word to you. Ive made no accusations against you. If I decide to address you I will mention you by name and quote you.

I do not know why you are acting aggressively towards me.

I will point out that rule #2 on this board states "Calling other users names or attacking others will not be tolerated. Don't call other users names or apply labels to them that you can't substantiate "

So I will thank you kindly to not call me a 'troll' or any other inappropriate name.

Angel43, I believe JohnnyYuma was referring to Crikey being a troll, not you. You were just verifying what he (JohnnyYuma) was thinking.

Welcome to ALIPAC Angel43! We are always glad to have another well-informed, intelligent member here!

Imblest just to prove my point of Americans taking care of The World... Please check out this Grants.gov. website. Click on ANY catagory and see how much we are giving. These are numbers YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT!
And there are so many that I could not comprehend where all the money is going. We need to STOP THIS!

http://www.grants.gov/search/category.d ... 1373114776

Crikey wrote:

Otherwise let me break down some aspects of illegal immigration as I see it. Firstly there are things about some illegals that are bad. Their lack of linguistic assimilation for instance or the phenomenon of drug related crimes that is a small but disturbing part of migrants who cross over from the south of the border. All this is true, but at the same time we need to recognize that most Mexicans who migrate illegally are good people who are looking for a better life with no intent to harm Americans. The reason they migrate illegally while risking their lives is simply because (a) there are jobs attracting them here that pay better than in Mexico and (b) they have no legal options - unlike the European settlers of the 19th and 20th centuries who had very few restrictions on immigrating from Europe. Once illegals are inside the US, their options to assimilate are not going to be very many.. the fear of deportation ensures that most will never assimilate and this leads to the creation of an underground class that will very easily be exploited by ruthless employers who only want cheap labor. It is easy for an employer to pay less than minimum wage to an illegal because the illegal won't complain due to a fear of deportation. This indirectly depresses the wages of low skilled Americans or makes it hard for them to compete against illegals. So we have a vicious cycle. People get upset about illegal immigrants and demand draconian laws. This drives illegals even more underground and makes it very difficult for them to assimilate. This puts other Americans at a disadvantage and so on. So when people direct their rage at illegals, they actually make the problem worse for both the illegal and the low skilled American worker. One finds it harder to assimilate while the other can't compete for a job due to depressed wages. We are all worse off living in such a society.

Since you want to discuss Mexican Nationals specifically.

Mexico encourages the exodus of their poorest and most illiterate to illegally come the U.S. and send money back into the Mexican economy. These people are not producers in Mexico, but if they can get them into the states and get them sending money back to the Mexican economy it is a win win for Mexico. The income to Mexico is second only to oil for Mexico and the Mexico has invested mucho dinero to make sure it doesn't stop. 50 consulates, providing their "citizens" with ID, suing states that restrict their presence and diminish the national income. The Mexican government sponsors education to illegals to make sure they know what social welfare programs that they can attach themselves to, so that they have sufficient income to be able to send some back.

Then there is the little problem of Mexico teaching that the U.S. stole the lands of the Southwest from Mexico, when we have a canceled check. The caste system of Mexico, which has the third largest white population in Latin American, is rigid and breeds an ingrained prejudice against whites before the Mexican National manages to sneak in. It sets up and us against them attitude right off the bat. Then there is the attitude that "the rich Norte Americanos that have so much money and they made it from the stolen lands and labor of Mexicans so they owe us" that seems to surface frequently.

then there is the issue of taxes. Paying rent so that someone can afford to pay their property tax is a sham. Most illegals work under the table for cash or use a stolen social security card and claim 9-12 dependents while the women claim to be unmarried, or are and have a baby a year for welfare income and Medicaid. The Medicaid budget is not being broken by seniors in this country is being drained by illegal foreign nationals having babies or coming here for exotic and expensive medical treatments. The free dialysis clinic in Las Vegas was able to serve 8 patients with their funding and they all turned out to be illegals. We are treating over 900 leprosy patients in the U.S., they are all illegals, if they came here according to the laws and applied, they would not pass the physical. We eradicated leprosy in this country 50 years ago and, Bingo, it is back. The Siamese twins that had the $500,000.00 surgery to separate them a few years back just happened to be born here because mom was "visiting" form Mexico and on an on.

Then there is the school system issue and free breakfast, lunch and dinner ESL teachers to insure that they non English speaking kids that are illegally here can be taught in their own language it all cots a lot of $$$ for people that run around waving Mexican flags and swearing fealty to the motherland claiming they are "taking their country back" from the evil, no good Americanos. while they enjoy the infrastructure and live off of the back of the same people that they demonize. This is done in large numbers as shown by the May Day, Communist Worker Day marches.

Mexico is a narco state an I am offended when the Mexican government talks about the appetite for drugs in American being the cause of it's drug cartels when so many illegals are busted for using drugs, engaging in human smuggling, prostitution etc etc etc.

So Crikey, the propaganda about how they are really just running from a corrupt government doesn't wash with me. If they spent as much time and money demanding that their own country, which has abundant natural resources and great potential, become productive country instead of a parasite to MY country, they could live there. I have no respect for the scammers that are crawling across our borders every day looking for easy money and a sense of empowerment.

I won't even bother with the other issues, my fingers are tired and I don't have all day.

Originally Posted by Angel43

Originally Posted by JohnnyYuma

Originally Posted by Angel43

Crikey is intentionally confusing data that includes legal law abiding immigrants with illegal aliens.

One group has show us a pattern of adhering to laws.

The illegal immigrant group shows patterns of breaking our laws.

Apples and oranges.

That's what I thought. You just come on here and accuse, baselessly. When you come up with some proof I am pro-illegal alien, let us know. Otherwise, your just another troll.

I've never said one word to you. Ive made no accusations against you. If I decide to address you I will mention you by name and quote you.

I do not know why you are acting aggressively towards me.

I will point out that rule #2 on this board states "Calling other users names or attacking others will not be tolerated. Don't call other users names or apply labels to them that you can't substantiate "

So I will thank you kindly to not call me a 'troll' or any other inappropriate name.

By erasing all of the proof on this board of your attack, and William Gheen allowing consistant attacks on my charcater on this board, without justification, proof, or punishment, it is apparent I am being railroaded off of Alipac. I could suspect you are a bitter Law Enforcement officer seeking revenge, with power beyond William Gheens, or you are flat out upset that I refuse to vote for Herman Cain . If that is the case, which I think all apply, who in their right mind would want to stick with alipac, or their constituents under those circumstances? Who needs enemies with friends like that?

Originally Posted by Crikey

Originally Posted by Newmexican

crikey wrote.

Quite untrue.. people from countries like India for instance are among the best educated and highest earning households in the US. The statement about immigrants spreading disease is flat out not true.

You are correct. I incorrectly wrote immigrants instead of illegal immigrants and it makes big difference. That was an oversight/typing error and I thank you for pointing it out.

I believe that people that come here legally want to be part of this country, not just an appendage to it and I applaud and welcome legal immigrants.

I have several friends, that are now citizens, that have immigrated legally from India, Mexico and Greece and I have had the priviledge of attending 3 naturalization ceremonies. Not one of these friends likes the fact that people come here illegally and get away with it.

Nobody likes illegal immigration. I was mostly reacting to statements such as "until Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration law that opened the floodgates to Third World immigration to the USA. For a full discussion of this massive demographic change, please read "Death of the West" by Pat Buchanan." and of course one of the replies where it was claimed that immigrants from third world countries spread diseases and so on. The problem is that often times I find that under the surface, an opposition to illegal immigration is nothing more than an opposition to all immigration from non-white countries which is unfortunate.

Otherwise let me break down some aspects of illegal immigration as I see it. Firstly there are things about some illegals that are bad. Their lack of linguistic assimilation for instance or the phenomenon of drug related crimes that is a small but disturbing part of migrants who cross over from the south of the border. All this is true, but at the same time we need to recognize that most Mexicans who migrate illegally are good people who are looking for a better life with no intent to harm Americans. The reason they migrate illegally while risking their lives is simply because (a) there are jobs attracting them here that pay better than in Mexico and (b) they have no legal options - unlike the European settlers of the 19th and 20th centuries who had very few restrictions on immigrating from Europe. Once illegals are inside the US, their options to assimilate are not going to be very many.. the fear of deportation ensures that most will never assimilate and this leads to the creation of an underground class that will very easily be exploited by ruthless employers who only want cheap labor. It is easy for an employer to pay less than minimum wage to an illegal because the illegal won't complain due to a fear of deportation. This indirectly depresses the wages of low skilled Americans or makes it hard for them to compete against illegals. So we have a vicious cycle. People get upset about illegal immigrants and demand draconian laws. This drives illegals even more underground and makes it very difficult for them to assimilate. This puts other Americans at a disadvantage and so on. So when people direct their rage at illegals, they actually make the problem worse for both the illegal and the low skilled American worker. One finds it harder to assimilate while the other can't compete for a job due to depressed wages. We are all worse off living in such a society.

We have every right as a nation to question the 1965 Hart-Cellar Act and the rational behind it, especially since it was being pushed by a Ted Kennedy, an open-borders liberal; intent on pandering for future votes in order to keep the Kennedy dynasty alive. Ted Kennedy stood on the floor of the Senate and uttered these words in support of this destructive piece of legislation:


"First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same.... Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset.... Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia.... In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think.... It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

Do I need to go line by line for you and point out the glaring inaccuracies contained therein? Everything Kennedy said wouldn't happen has in fact happened! Perhaps the "critics" were right after all, because it seems as if their version of events has turned out to be more in line with reality than what Kennedy envisioned.

I live in Southern California, whereby he have entire cities, ethnic enclaves, comprised of third-world immigrants from Latin America and Asia. They do not assimilate and have essentially duplicated the same environment from which they apparently fled. These are so called "legal" immigrants mind you.

If third-world immigration was such a blessing, how come countries like Japan, China, Mexico, to name a few, open their borders to millions of poor immigrants from all over the world? How come the native born populations of Mexico are not in any danger of being replaced by massive non-Hispanic immigration? Why is it only first-world, white nations are expected to embrace this tsunami of human migration under the guise of "diversity and multiculturalism?"

Pat Buchanan has been 100% correct in his analysis of this destructive pattern, including the Hart-Cellar Act of 1965 and issues related to the changing demographics of this country.

I as an American, have every right to question the logic of allowing millions of third-world immigrants into this country who do not embrace assimilation. Let me ask you, are whites not allowed to have their own country where they are the majority? The Chinese have their own country, Mexicans have their own country, and the Japanese have their own country. I could go on, but even you get the picture I believe.

Let me be clear, I have no problems with immigration per se, so long as it's done responsibly and done in consideration for what's in the best interest of the host country. What's being done now is reckless and destructive and it should no longer be tolerated.

No country on the face of this planet would allow in so many immigrants (legal or illlegal) so as to replace the native population. But that's exactly what is happening in this country today.

We need to enforce our immigration laws for the very reasons you pointed out in your analysis. It does not matter one iota why they come here illegally. They need to stay in their own countries, in order to bring about necessary change to correct the conditions that compel millions of them to invade another country, in violation of immigration laws. As it stands, the US is the safety release valve for Mexico and the elites running that country know this.

Nothing is going to change so long as we continue down this same path of denial and appeasement for these people. Coming here illegally for a so called "better life" is no excuse.

Everyone wants a "better life," including native born Americans! We should not be expected to lower our standard of living in order to create opportunity for the entire world, especially those who come here in violation of our immigration laws.

Originally Posted by Crikey

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Originally Posted by Crikey

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Originally Posted by Crikey

America is not what I'd call "vibrant" right now. 20+% unemployment with California being among the highest and you call that "vibrant"? CA is also in the hole for $13 billion - about what illegals cost the state every year.

Try telling Jamiel Shaw's family, and countless others who have been killed and victimized by "immigrants" how the US attracts the "best" immigrants.

BTW, CA's unemployment rate is 11% (google CA unemployment). It was much lower a few years ago when immigration was just as high if not higher. the high unemployment is due to the global credit crisis caused by Wall Street and ironically it has led to a steep drop in the number of illegals moving to the US (and most likely legal migrants too).

Regarding crimes and so on, bad things happen in any big country. Do you think horrific crimes are never committed by American citizens? I don't see any reason why an illegal immigrant who is already living in fear of deportation would have any more propensity to commit crimes than native born Americans. I recently checked the details of people on death row in some of the states like Texas which have a lot of people on death row. I could not find a single Mexican national on it - which undercuts the argument that illegals are going around committing a disproportionate amount of violent crimes.
In the end, most people (immigrant or native) are good people. Tell me how many times have illegal Mexicans robbed you or hurt you in any way? For me the number is 0 (as it is for every American I know personally).

I don't trust for a minute what the main stream media tells us on unemployment stats-especially as it stands here in CA. Belive me, it's WAY worse. They dont take in to acct the underemployed, those who passed their 99 weeks and those who simply gave up, etc.

As far as crimes go - we have enough losers and thugs here to contend with and don't need to import more. As for mexicans who have robbed and hurt me in any way, yeah I can tell you a few stories, like how my dad was stabbed in the stomach by one trying to take his wallet, how we've had cars stolen by them, and a few other friends who have been robbed by them. One friend even has a camera system set up around his house because he got fed up with illegals taking his tools and running off down the hill to the busy road below.

Also, are you aware of the fact that over 50% of immigrants come here and immediately get on some sort of public assistance? Tell me how this is a good thing. One million sex crimes a year commited by illegals - yeah, we need more of that don't we? Let's just make it worse by importing millions of poor mexicans who in their culture think sex with a 12 year old is ok and driving drunk is an act of "machismo".

12 Americans are killed each day at the hands of illegal aliens, 85% of those deaths are DUI related. 12x365=4380 innocent Americans will be leaving us this year at the hands of illegals!

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=39031