Thread: Dangerous Legislation - TREASON!

CG
Immigration and illegal certainly needs to be pulled apart in this debate.

But, it's looking to me that they fear bringing a big bill to the floor again. All these smaller things they slip through are for the most open ended. We need to ring in on them all.

Coto I just wanted to say that I liked the way you brought this whole subject up it was an attention getter and showed you cared.We are being sold down the river without any thought for other generations of Americans.I read that Bush thinks all Americans need to leave this country entirely which iis not going to work but does he care ?No he and Congress except for a few could care less if drugs and prostitution are the only jobs left for kids later on.So what is wrong with any of us saying something strong ? They do not mind calling us racists and the Minutemen vigilantes and these are strong terms.So what is wrong calling them traitors if the shoe fits.

You make a good point, loservillelabor. We have to keep our eye on the whole court, not just the basket. I'd hate to be sitting under the net watching our opponents consistently pop three pointers from outside the paint on us. We need to be active all over the court if we're to have any hope of saving our jobs and protecting our way of life. At this point and time, any bill that increases immigration is a negative for us. Before such things can be considered we must get control of the illegal immigration problem and secure our borders.

Just my opinion.........

They do not mind calling us racists

And what has happened to the word. Does it sting anymore? For the most part nobody even hears it anymore. It's been overused for so many things unrelated it's been devalued. That's all CG is saying. If the time comes to pull the T word it needs to stick!

Hi CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

What I woud like to see, to the extent that it is possible, is for the illegal immigration debate to be separated from the legal immigration debate. The legal immigration debate is a complex one that does not so easily lend itself to rallies and sloganeering. If we would focus efforts on first securing the border and getting the illegal back on their side of the border, our chances for success would be vastly improved. Then we could move on to other issues, like limiting H1Bs.

You might recall:

A high number of H-1Bs "forget to go home," over stay, join the ranks of illegals, and enjoy "protection from deportation" from their employers.

A significant number of H-1Bs are indentured. Indentured servitude is illegal, but widely practiced by Fortune 1000 corporations. Arguably, the H-1B's office is a "crime scene."

H-1Bs, L-1s, and other H series visa holders are NOT immigrants (non-immigrant visa).

The "You owe us your jobs" Immigration Voice and Immigration Portal websites attempt to [falsely] portray the H-1Bs as immigrants and heroes.

For hundreds of years not only have we been able to compete on a global scale we have led the world in many fields.

Why would anyone in the world want to destroy that?

Originally Posted by Coto

Hi CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

What I woud like to see, to the extent that it is possible, is for the illegal immigration debate to be separated from the legal immigration debate. The legal immigration debate is a complex one that does not so easily lend itself to rallies and sloganeering. If we would focus efforts on first securing the border and getting the illegal back on their side of the border, our chances for success would be vastly improved. Then we could move on to other issues, like limiting H1Bs.

You might recall:

A high number of H-1Bs "forget to go home," over stay, join the ranks of illegals, and enjoy "protection from deportation" from their employers.

A significant number of H-1Bs are indentured. Indentured servitude is illegal, but widely practiced by Fortune 1000 corporations. Arguably, the H-1B's office is a "crime scene."

H-1Bs, L-1s, and other H series visa holders are NOT immigrants (non-immigrant visa).

The "You owe us your jobs" Immigration Voice and Immigration Portal websites attempt to [falsely] portray the H-1Bs as immigrants and heroes.

Coto, those HiBs who forget to go home are, by definition, illegal aliens and are among the illegal aliens I believe that we should be addressing. What I am trying to separate are the issues of legal versus illegal immigration. When the two are conflated, it's too easy to get bogged down in the debate of how many is too many (legal immigrants). We know how many illegal immgrants are too many, and that number is ONE. If we start from a point on which almost everyome with any sense can agree, we can work through the more complex questions once we have some momentum.

To me, an H-1b can be illegal for many reasons (as can an L-1). If they were brought here on false pretenses, don't really have the qualifications in the LCA, or the LCA was improper for some reason, if there was fraud in calculating the prevailing wage, etc. By definition, these ways of skirting the law require collusion by the companies, and possibly the DOL, as does the hiring of illegals from Mexico. By taking white collar jobs and driving down professional salaries, they do a different type of damage to our society than the lower socio-economic folks from Mexico and points south. It's like a pincer action: if you lose your white collar job and try to survive by taking a lower level job, you might find yourself blocked out by a different type of immigrant.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

To me, an H-1b can be illegal for many reasons (as can an L-1). If they were brought here on false pretenses, don't really have the qualifications in the LCA, or the LCA was improper for some reason, if there was fraud in calculating the prevailing wage, etc. By definition, these ways of skirting the law require collusion by the companies, and possibly the DOL, as does the hiring of illegals from Mexico. By taking white collar jobs and driving down professional salaries, they do a different type of damage to our society than the lower socio-economic folks from Mexico and points south. It's like a pincer action: if you lose your white collar job and try to survive by taking a lower level job, you might find yourself blocked out by a different type of immigrant.

But again we are into the vague area of debatable policy with work visas and their impact. Personally, I would like to see them minimized, but I am in no position to make a concrete determination as to how many, if any, are actually required and how many simply represent an unfair assault on domestic labor. That's why I generally defer to the research done by various groups like the NCPA, where a couple of my friends work.

On the topic of illegal immigration, we have absolutes that are beyond debate. There is an existing application process and existing processes for entry into this country along with statutory time limits for stays and specific laws governing work eligibility. There is no policy to debate in that case, but merely a question of enforcement or non-enforcement of the law.

Hi Crockets Ghost,
I hear where you're coming from. Not to sound like a broke record; just wanta clarify - H-1Bs and L-1s are not immigrants, period.
Legal, yes.
Illegal, yes (those who overstay)
Partners in crime, Yes (those who are indentured)

But not immigrants.

So what are they? They're guest workers; they're job destroyers - take your pick.

May I recommend?

Those who overstay - deport.
Those who are here w/in their 6 yr visas - Repatriate back to their home countries.

They don't belong here, we need to get rid of em, and terminate these guest worker visa programs.

CrocketsGhost - I'm not trying to re-focus this website, and I'm not trying to trivalize what you posted; H-1Bs are doing an end run while the illegals are doing a frontal assualt. Intentionally or unintentionally, H-1Bs have joined with the illegals to destroy our society. Or, differently stated, H-1B lobby organizations have joined with the illegals' lobby organizations to recruit the congress into the destruction of our society. (with heavy CFR and Trilateral Commission involvement)

I will say this, Crocket'sGhost, the H-1Bs are not homicidal maniacs like the illegals. Destruction from the illegals comes from the bottom up; destruction from H-1Bs comes from top down. We're in the middle.

Kick it back, CrocketsGhost, I've got a headache and i don't know if I'm making sense or not. Besides, Betsy Ross writes more succinctly than I do.

Thanks/Coto