Thread: Desire your critique

Great Post William. I too would like to add that I was surprised to learn that Chris Simcox is for a Guest Worker Program as I am 100% opposed to a new Guest Worker Program. As you point out, we already have AMPLE programs for letting legal workers into the United States to work temporarily and then return to their country of origin. We have had these programs for years.

Is it possible that Simcox made a statement about the Guest Worker Program because there is NO SUCH PROGRAM YET and it was like supporting nothing in reality?

I sure hope so.....his people will not be happy with that....unless it was just a general statement without any meaning because....there is no such program in existence or even proposed on paper to my knowledge by the President....it was just a FAKE ANNOUNCEMENT to tell aliens COME ON UP AND HELP ME, GEORGE BUSH, END THE USA!!

I will point out that I've heard Bill O'Reilly, as recently as tonight, say he supports a Guest Worker Program. I've also heard Lou Dobbs say he supports a Guest Worker Program. I think it is PC (politically correct thing they say) because there is no such thing in existence or even on paper and perhaps this lets them appease their OWNERS so they can get the AIRTIME to help us FIGHT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

It is all worth query......in my opinion.

I hope everyone read that Zogby poll we added to the homepage that showed 56% opposition and only 35% support at this time for a guest worker program.

We do not need to reward law breakers.

W

Good Post William. 56% OPPOSED TO Guest Worker Program. I hope Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs see this. There is no justification at all for any type of Guest Worker Program....not at this time....none at all. If someone needs workers, they need to contact the Employment Security Commission of their state first and then the Employment Security Commissions of other states and arrange hirings from within the United States of American Citizens.

With all due respect, Patriotman, you are jumping to conclusions. Just because we do not advocate scorched earth tactics, does not mean surrender. I spent an hour last night e-mailing members of our state legislature, providing them with some quotes from the Hispanic extremist groups and imploring them to wake up and take the actions they can in this state to improve the situation, not encourage it. One legislator promptly wrote me back saying he was totally opposed to turning this country over to aliens. I then wrote him asking him to be proactive and promote legislation that will help, not harm.

You could certainly get a lot of attention burning flags and hanging people in effigy on the square in Charlotte, but the news dogs will immediately turn it against you in the court of public opinion.

This guest worker garbage doesn't fly. Even partial amnesty doesn't fly. We will continue to push and push for guarded borders, zero tolerance for illegals and all the rest. I think it's too soon to utilize the nuclear option. We want to win not blow ourselves up.

William writes:

We have done pretty good with our moves so far all things considered

Boy if anyone took my comments as shot against the dedication of the volunteers of this movement I apologize because I have nothing but respect for those trying to defend their country and preserve a legacy for their children and grandchildren.

Secondly, we are doing damn good considering nobody has been paid and we have been fighting battles left and right.

You are doing more than darn good…far more…

We must chose our battles. We must use high strategy. We must be very careful in what we do and when.

Hence my various posts. Everyone needs to be aware of the negotiating trap you may be walking into. Personally I see value in disassociated fringe groups stirring the pot, because when you come to formal agreements it is always more or less in the middle of the extremes of positions. If your position is reasonable from the start your end position will be some distance removed form what you consider acceptable.

William continues with:

We are NOT negotiating our surrender. We are taking our country back.

: )

People that speak softly and caclulate their moves are the most formidable opponents you will ever see in action and many times you will never see them at all.

You are very correct.

Scarecrow writes:

With all due respect, Patriotman, you are jumping to conclusions.

Correct I am. More to the point I am contingency planning and trying to plot what can be done to mitigate the possibility of every having to enact a contingency plan...i.e. if you can make the OBL have to defend other fires you can sacrifice a few of them at the table of negotiation...in negotiation everyone has to give...and once again "we" are negotiating...where is the impetus to deport every illegal alien (which would be lawful thing to do)? Answer - there is none, ergo we are already negotiating and we have already conceded that we are not truly willing to stand for "the rule of law".

Scarecrow writes:

This guest worker garbage doesn't fly. Even partial amnesty doesn't fly. We will continue to push and push for guarded borders, zero tolerance for illegals and all the rest. I think it's too soon to utilize the nuclear option. We want to win not blow ourselves up.

Oh no - see "nuclear option" has now joining the American lexicon - LOL!!!
To your point, you are correct to "too soon to utilize it", but it is a tool in the toolkit and the contingency plans should be evaluated with mobilizes at the ready for various scenarios.

All the best,

Patriotman

To all involved in this discussion:

Ok I've been reading into this discussion which I may add is a great discussion (probably the best I've read on this board) and I'm going to add my two cents worth (for what it's really worth which probably aint much anymore).

Ok Patriotman threw a bombshell of a post at the beginning and while his statements seem to be very strong and overwhelming when being read at first glance, I think he makes some good points. Do I hate Mexicans? Absolutely NOT. I don't think all of them are bad people and not all illegals are bad people overall. What I do hate with a passion is the illegal alien invasion, the illegals that committ heinous acts of violence on top of their being illegal, the illegals that purposely suck our systems dry and demand we give more or your a racist bs, those involved in aiding and abetting the invasion (politicans from our government and other foreign governments and other various pressure groups). For me it's not about race and it never will be. To me it always will be a rule of law issue.

But my biggest contention is what if Patriotman is right? What if we really are just merely negotiating the terms of our surrender? I think this is the biggest point he's made that really hit home with me. It doesn't look like the politicans really care or even notice what we are doing (if they do, they are doing a good job of hiding it) and are still pushing for ridiculous amnesty bills despite all of the phone, faxing, emails, protests, etc. What if all of this civil movement we are doing to get common sense legislation passed is really hoping against hope? He could be right you know. Then what? If the legislative/political movement doesn't work then what? Would Patriots suggestion really be that far fetched? Maybe his suggestion might seem over the top now, but I think we as a group should keep all of our options open and not be afraid to use them out of fear of what the media will do. Because guess what? The media is going to try to paint us as a bunch of Nazis no matter what we do and no matter how nice we are. Make no mistake, we are fighting an uphill battle. We are fighting for the very survival of our country. You think we're angry? No I for one am not angry, i'm downright livid and I can understand why some people are more than desperate to do anything to stop this invasion and destruction of our country at all cost. I think we are severely losing this fight big time. Of course we might have a few small victories under our belt, but we still don't have the respect of the politicans yet. They still view us as a fringe group of whackos that don't represent the will of the people. I know that's a lie, but they are successful in covering their tracks to avoid mass public outrage. We're slowly growing, but hopefully it's not too little, too late.

I think we as a group need to continue to be vigilant and not succumb to any compromise in any form. The OBL will not compromise and neither will we. Don't let these creeps, these blackhearts in empty suits/skirts in government who have been bought and paid off destroy our country. Don't be satisfied with a couple of minor victories.

I also think we should be open to all discussions and ideas as long as it doesn't promote violence and hatred toward any race in particular and I don't think Patriots post advocated any of that.

Just my two cents!

Like dman, I'm entering the discussion a little late. And with great respect and admiration, I ditto dman's post. Very well thought out and written - and a legitimate answer to Patriotman's open request for a critique.

Patriotman, I HEAR what you're saying. Unfortunately, 95% of the country is not there yet - and may never be there. Look at our collective response to murderous jihadists. Thousands of our innocent citizens were murdered on 9/11. More are killed by homicidal terrorists every day - and yet our media, and our "elite" preach tolerance and understanding at every opportunity. Many Americans would have a hard time working up a modicum of HATE toward an OBVIOUS enemy like the jihadists - much less the millions of "harmless" usurpers among us! It's the passivity and apathy of our fat and happy nation.

We are all on the same side. I see your side and William's as being two very different approaches to the same end goal. I could launch into a dissertation on the history of warfare and the classes of warriors; the success of strategicians like Alexander and the clinical discipline of the Roman legions juxstaposed with the success of the Nordic berserkers, the Celtic she-bears, and the Vikings. But that would interest no one but me, so I'll refrain.

Excellent thread, friends.

One last thought, Patriotman. My ALIPAC tag line quote by John Stuart Mills is always in my post signature, but it is not the entire quote. The full quotation is as follows:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill

I know that we're not talking about or advocating war, per se. But there is a WAR OF IDEALS going on right now. The inertia of our politicians and the mass majority of Americans is our battle right now, not any particular ethnic group. YOU are the better man than those that are apathetic. It will be YOUR and OUR exertions that keep America free.

SCARECROW wrote

We will never win the liberal elite, but we can win that great American middle that elected George Bush with the anticipation he would act in our interests. He let them down and his approval numbers are beginning to reflect that. That great rock solid American from the heartland is a traditionalist whether he is a Democrat or Republican. He has grown up steeped in our democratic traditions. We have to respect that and conduct ourselves in a way which will encourage these folks to join us in the fight.

AGREED

JUDY please repost the url to MCCAIN/KENNEDY FARCE. I read your original but did miss the url {sorry J}
We all should have this legislation "filed" for ref!

PATRIOTMAN
I've been following here and my 2 cents are: Like many, I immediately jumped and stopped reading after "HATE." The moral is simple, imho. One loses a possible productive base of people when the verbiage is offensive to this degree.

Personally, I happen to agree with you re: negotiations. With this issue the DANGER is in NEGOTIATING and taking LESS THAN is right for our nation.

Also, your strategy for going after the FUNDING to OFFENDING COUNTRIES re: prison expenses is something I've advocated for quite a while. It IS a powerful tool should it be chosen for use.

The best way to begin to handle this, again in my opinion, is to set up small committees to work on collecting the specific info related to a specific goal. Without organized info, a plan cannot be enacted.

Suggestion:
BOYCOTT RESTAURANTS {JP's idea}.....doable and needs indepth work

ADVANCE to LEGISLATORS a plan to PULL FUNDING FROM OFFENDING COUNTRIES.....{your idea} .......doable and needs indepth work.

{my 2 cents}

Good stuff and good comments folks. I'm reading it like a hawk and taking notes.

W