Thread: Methodist Church INSISTS on amnesty

I had fun for a while as the local Jehovah's witnesses came "religiously" every month. I asked if they believed that God created earth or it was actually 4.5 billion years old--it was God's work they assured me. Then I asked what they thought about Adam's first "wife," Lilith, a demon in Judaic tradition that had been adapted from Mesopotamian culture and they had no idea what I was talking about. They also did not have a clue of the Apocrypha or Gnostic texts. They haven't rung my doorbell since or even left any booklets.
Religions have adopted and re-explained points from prior religions. The rose was banned by Christianity as a pagan symbol until Eleanor of Acquitaine planted rose bushes at her palaces. Suddenly the rose was okay by the church. Many Christian holidays have roots in paganism.
I have always found looking at organized religion from the outside and researching history fascinating.

I was approached by Jehovah's witnesses on the street one day.
I told them I was into witchcraft and they ran screaming away from me.
The people around the area looked at me like I did something to them! LOL

I found this enlightening, maybe you will too:

DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?

I SURE DIDNT TILL NOW

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....

Very interesting, read until the end.....

It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):


'Be not deceived; God is not mocked:

or whatsoever a man sow,

that shall he also reap.


Here are some men and women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer):

Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:

'Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.

Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him' (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):

During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.

Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):

During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said:'God, that's for you.'

He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

The man who built the Titanic
After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.

With an ironic tone he said:

'Not even God can sink it'

The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic

Marilyn Monroe (Actress)

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.

He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:

'I don't need your Jesus'.

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment

Bon Scott (Singer)


The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:

'Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell'.
On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.


Campinas (IN 2005)

In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....

The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

'My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.'


She responded: 'Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full '

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact.. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken


Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.

In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.

Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

'Jesus'

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

I found this enlightening, maybe you will too:

DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?

I SURE DIDNT TILL NOW

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....

Very interesting, read until the end.....

It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):


'Be not deceived; God is not mocked:

or whatsoever a man sow,

that shall he also reap.


Here are some men and women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer):

Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:

'Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.

Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him' (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):

During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.

Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):

During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said:'God, that's for you.'

He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

The man who built the Titanic
After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.

With an ironic tone he said:

'Not even God can sink it'

The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic

Marilyn Monroe (Actress)

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.

He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:

'I don't need your Jesus'.

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment

Bon Scott (Singer)


The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:

'Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell'.
On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.


Campinas (IN 2005)

In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....

The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

'My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.'


She responded: 'Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full '

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact.. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken


Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.

In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.

Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

'Jesus'

Christians have untimely deaths all the time. If anything, religions mock God. They all think they are right. My God created a universe full of life, including a tiny speck of people called humans on planet earth, who created religion to understand what their primitive minds couldn't understand. My God has unconditional love. My God is the creator. My God knows the difference between someone that is good, and someone that is bad, no matter the religion. My God makes sure that I make mistakes in life, so I may learn from them. My God listens to me every night when I pray and meditate, and he "talks" back.

Just because a person doesn't follow a particular dogma out of the thousands available, it doesn't mean that God will strike them down ONLY to prove a point. God has no capacity for vengeance and hate. Man created that.

Originally Posted by jshhmr

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

I found this enlightening, maybe you will too:

DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?

I SURE DIDNT TILL NOW

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....

Very interesting, read until the end.....

It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):


'Be not deceived; God is not mocked:

or whatsoever a man sow,

that shall he also reap.


Here are some men and women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer):

Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:

'Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.

Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous than Him' (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):

During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.

Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):

During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said:'God, that's for you.'

He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

The man who built the Titanic
After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.

With an ironic tone he said:

'Not even God can sink it'

The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic

Marilyn Monroe (Actress)

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.

He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:

'I don't need your Jesus'.

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment

Bon Scott (Singer)


The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:

'Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell'.
On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.


Campinas (IN 2005)

In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....

The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

'My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.'


She responded: 'Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full '

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact.. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken


Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.

In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.

Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

'Jesus'

Christians have untimely deaths all the time. If anything, religions mock God. They all think they are right. My God created a universe full of life, including a tiny speck of people called humans on planet earth, who created religion to understand what their primitive minds couldn't understand. My God has unconditional love. My God is the creator. My God knows the difference between someone that is good, and someone that is bad, no matter the religion. My God makes sure that I make mistakes in life, so I may learn from them. My God listens to me every night when I pray and meditate, and he "talks" back.

Just because a person doesn't follow a particular dogma out of the thousands available, it doesn't mean that God will strike them down ONLY to prove a point. God has no capacity for vengeance and hate. Man created that.

Very well said!

jshhmr wrote:

My God makes sure that I make mistakes in life, so I may learn from them. My God listens to me every night when I pray and meditate, and he "talks" back.

I seriously doubt God forces you to make mistakes. You have free will, which means your mistakes are your own. Furthermore, wasn't it you that had directed a derogatory comment toward Bush in another post because God spoke to him (if it wasn't you, I apologize)? Well, I won't say anything derogatory regarding your confession that God speaks to you.

Originally Posted by MW

jshhmr wrote:

My God makes sure that I make mistakes in life, so I may learn from them. My God listens to me every night when I pray and meditate, and he "talks" back.

I seriously doubt God forces you to make mistakes. You have free will, which means your mistakes are your own. Furthermore, wasn't it you that had directed a derogatory comment toward Bush in another post because God spoke to him (if it wasn't you, I apologize)? Well, I won't say anything derogatory regarding your confession that God speaks to you.

Yes, we are all set up to make mistakes because that is how we learn. This reality is like a school for souls. We learn, and we grow. Yes, it was me that made comments about Bush. God does not tell you to go to war and kill innocent people. God does not tell you to lie to the people for votes. God is there to guide you so you can make the right choices in life. Granting a president the right to kill people is not something that comes from God, but evil.

jshhmr wrote:

This reality is like a school for souls. Yes, we are all set up to make mistakes because that is how we learn. We learn, and we grow. Yes, it was me that made comments about Bush. God does not tell you to go to war and kill innocent people. God does not tell you to lie to the people for votes. God is there to guide you so you can make the right choices in life. Granting a president the right to kill people is not something that comes from God, but evil.

ho·li·er-than-thou (hl-r-n-ou)
adj.
Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.

Your comments are opinion because you can't know what God has or hasn't told anyone, especially Bush.

Yes, we are all set up to make mistakes because that is how we learn.

I disagree. Are you suggesting that we must make mistakes in order to learn from them? Well, I submit that there are other ways of learning. Sure, we all make mistakes, but those mistakes aren't a necessary part of learning right from wrong and good from bad. Actually, there are a lot of folks that never seem to learn from their mistakes. Well, guess I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are yours.

Granting a president the right to kill people is not something that comes from God, but evil.

Waging war on our enemies comes from responsibility, not evil. The U.S. Constitution empowers the president to wage wars as commander-in-chief while Congress has the power to declare wars and fund them.

Originally Posted by MW

jshhmr wrote:

This reality is like a school for souls. Yes, we are all set up to make mistakes because that is how we learn. We learn, and we grow. Yes, it was me that made comments about Bush. God does not tell you to go to war and kill innocent people. God does not tell you to lie to the people for votes. God is there to guide you so you can make the right choices in life. Granting a president the right to kill people is not something that comes from God, but evil.

ho·li·er-than-thou (hl-r-n-ou)
adj.
Exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteously pious.

Your comments are opinion because you can't know what God has or hasn't told anyone, especially Bush.

[quote:wjjdilwz]Yes, we are all set up to make mistakes because that is how we learn.

I disagree. Are you suggesting that we must make mistakes in order to learn from them? Well, I submit that there are other ways of learning. Sure, we all make mistakes, but those mistakes aren't a necessary part of learning right from wrong and good from bad. Actually, there are a lot of folks that never seem to learn from their mistakes. Well, guess I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are yours.

Granting a president the right to kill people is not something that comes from God, but evil.

Waging war on our enemies comes from responsibility, not evil. The U.S. Constitution empowers the president to wage wars as commander-in-chief while Congress has the power to declare wars and fund them.[/quote:wjjdilwz]

Thanks for your response MW! I LOVE debating as I'm sure you already know I'm just glad I have a place to do this without judgment or condemnation. It's funny that you quote "holier than thou", when as a person that went to a Christian school for 6 years, I was taught that I was holier than other people, because MY religion was right, and others were wrong. The difference now is that I have NO religion, only God. I now know the TRUE difference between right and wrong. I see "christians" sinning everyday, while spouting about the end of days. Ironic isn't it?

Waging war does NOT come from responsibility. It does come from the human need to discriminate against other people based on religion, culture, etc. I don't like communism, but God does not give me the right to discriminate against them. That's why God gave us freewill. It's all a giant test. I can either cling to religion while ignoring the masses that need our help, or I can actually DO something to help my fellow man. What would Jesus do? It seems that religion has gotten so far in the way, that people have FORGOTTEN what Jesus would do, that's why we have million dollar churches instead of using that money for the work of God and Jesus. Remember, if people used their 10% tithing then that alone would cure world hunger, but what do you decide to do instead?

Using by my example of what our purpose is, if you still think it's about Christians vs Muslims vs Buddhists vs Jews vs Hindu etc, then our planet is TRULY doomed. We must all live together and serve our Godly duty.

As far as making mistakes, how do you learn then? That would suggest that you are as perfect as Jesus. You have NEVER made a mistake, and learned from it? How the heck do you think we learn things? If we were born perfect, what would be the purpose of life? Do we as humans have NOTHING to learn from God? Personally, the biggest thing I struggle with is patience, and God had grace enough to show me this. It is frustrating to me to be shown how I am supposed to be, yet 80% of the planet would rather hold onto ancient traditions rather than growing spiritually.

MW, when was the last time that you felt TRULY in control of your life without anybody telling you since birth how you are supposed to think? I have a relationship with God now that I couldn't have imagined as a christian, and even then I thought I had a relationship. I was wrong. Since the day I was born I was taught to believe a certain dogma, even though as a child I questioned it because it didn't make sense. It was because God was trying to show me as a kid that I didn't need to adhere to a certain doctrine to have salvation. My salvation is through what I believe in my heart, and not just what I say. God slapped me in the face to get me to wake up, because He has a purpose for me. That purpose is to let as many people know that God loves them, no matter what religion they are. Each and every human has a responsibility to do God's work, which is to HELP one another.

If people have a problem with that, and think I'm still going to "hell", please show me how I am wrong, even though I LIVE through God, and God lives through me everyday. Explain to me how I am less of a Godly person by not being a christian.

I have no problem with religion. I think religion is the basis of the morality that we have today. Especially christianity. I know that there are people that have to have religion just to get through their day, even though God is at their disposal 24/7 for answers. Again, God has shown me that I need patience and understanding, which I am still working on. (as you can tell) I am not perfect. But is is my responsibility to achieve God's perfection. In Christian school, I was taught that Jesus was perfect, and there is no way that humans could achieve that. They are wrong, because when you at least make an attempt in attaining the perfection that is Jesus, you are doing more of his work than you would if you didn't try. That's why I think religion is a cop out. You are forgiven so you automatically do bad things, but you are forgiven for it. I USED to think I was forgiven, which we are, but we still have to PAY for what we do. There is no such thing as doing bad, and receiving good. I do not put blame where it isn't due. I do not ask Jesus for forgiveness, because first, his unconditional love means automatic forgiveness, but instead I ask Jesus to show me how to make things better. That's why I have the beliefs that I have.

It is my responsibility to show as many people how they can live a Godlier life, regardless of religion. I see many comments on here about God being taken out of the country, and that is why we are going downhill. God showed me that it is because religion that God has been taken out, by construing their beliefs to benefit themselves, instead of God. If you don't think that is the case then why do churches make enough money to feed the world, yet they choose not to? Why? God is God, no matter the religion. By ignoring God and his work, how are religions not directly responsible for the issues we have today? Looking forward to a response. Again, I am not looking for an argument, nor do I think you opinion is irrelevant. I just want for the FIRST time in my life, a real, rational debate.

In the first Methodist resolution I posted on this thread (dated 2004) the weblink now shows a different resolution that has just been changed in the last 3-4 days. There is a new date of 2009 at the bottom. This newly modified resolution is opposed to the U.S Illegal Immigration and Reform Act. Notice the difference between the two resolutions.

Opposition to the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Resolution Act

WHEREAS, the Holy Scriptures call us as the community of God to give shelter, protection and help to sojourners living amongst us, reminding us that we, too, were foreigners in other times; and

WHEREAS, the Council of Bishops of The United Methodist Church through its document To Love the Sojourner has given the various boards, commissions, and agencies of The United Methodist Church direction as we relate to undocumented persons that live in our communities; and

WHEREAS, undocumented persons possess certain inalienable rights named and lifted in the International Declaration on Human Rights, the United Nations charter, as well as the documents concerning immigration of the Geneva Convention, and the Constitution of the United States Bill of Rights; and

WHEREAS, one of the most critical issues facing the Hispanic community today is the need for amnesty for the undocumented immigrants living within the United States; and

WHEREAS, being an undocumented person is NOT a crime;

Therefore, be it resolved, that we, The United Methodist Church, declare that the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Resolution Act is evil and unjust, and that the enforcement thereof results in immediate and insufferable human rights violations, discrimination, and oppression.

We call the United States government to accountability and insist upon:

1) changes in, and possible abolition of, the 1996 immigration law;

2) the continued existence of a unified Immigration and Naturalization Service, rather than a division into administrative and enforcement prosecutorial branches, and

3) the development of an amnesty program for undocumented persons to be implemented immediately.

Be it further resolved, that the General Conference move to create a task force to be responsible for agencies working on behalf of The United Methodist Church that is composed of staff from the following church boards and agencies: General Board of Global Ministries, General Commission on Religion and Race, General Board of Church and Society, with a minimum of two bishops, legal advisers, and Methodists Associated to Represent the Cause of Hispanic Americans (MARCHA) representation.

ADOPTED 2000

See Social Principles, ¶ 162.

From The Book of Resolutions of The United Methodist Church — 2004. Copyright © 2004 by The United Methodist Publishing House. Used by permission.


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