Thread: OK. Where are the UNIONS!?

Originally Posted by TyRANTosaur

I don't see how you can compare this nation to a labor union. Yes, there are some similarities, but that is a HUGE stretch.

Hardly. It's the struggle between Capital and people. The country has founding documents that are supposed to give us rights and a voice in how we'll live through a representative. The laws of the United States address the same conflict of capital, people, and give us rights to bargain collectively concerning how we'll live through a representative.

So what about those businesses that don't have unions? Are they controlled by totalitarian regimes, brutal dictators, ruthless monarchies?

I think it's likely that we could view some businesses as approaching those descriptions. There are many businesses that exploit the illegal alien workforce. On the other hand, there are businesses trying to do things right, care about their people, the community, and how we all live.


I support labor unions that do what is best for the business and employees.

Me too.

I have seen unions that force employees to join and yet don't do anything useful for their people, just taking in dues to support political agendas. The teacher's unions are a prime example.

I have never seen an employee shanhai'd in such a manner. Generally in The United states people agree to any employment. Unions and countries are made up of people. People can be a problem.

Just because there is corruption within the ranks of our political and business elite, does not mean it is ok within the labor union leadership.

True. Additionally, with corruption in government and business it is even more likely to find many organizations within a society are not much better, even churches.

Like it or not. You and I are Union Brothers. The Union is the United states of America. United we stand divided we fall. That's all.

How many members of the teachers union are actively going to meetings and voicing their opinions?

Nothing bad can come of a strike unless the employer does not have the income to meet the demands.

It is the responsibility of the members to make sure their unions voice their opinion, and not just the opinon of a select few.

It's called personal responsibility. It's just like each and every American is responsible for what the government does and how they vote. It is the responsibility of every American to voice their opinion, and not sit back and think that things are getting taken care of, or thinking your vote doesn't count. It is everyones resposibility to make sure other vote and have their voices heard.
We have become a permissive society and have become to comfortable in our lifestyles. Well we are paying the price now. Too many have become silent.
Take on the responsibility of firing up those employees. Take the bull by the horn. I did for over 40 years.

Originally Posted by TyRANTosaur

Unions have lost their luster. They are controled by activists with their own agendas. The teacher's unions support gay activism and pro-abortion issues, and they expect the members to agree. Many members that I have dealt with do not. States have pursued the idea of allowing teachers to work without them having to pay dues to the unions due to these issues.

How does a strike help the business or the economy? How does it help the workers? Yes, sometimes the workers get their way. Yes, sometimes they have legitimate reasons for striking. But are most strikes truly in the best interest of the country?

All I am saying, is these unions MUST work in the best interest of the business and it's members. In the end, THAT is what is best for the union of the people that makes up the United States.

The mafia has always been involved with labor.

I wasn't a Teamster. I never had any inkling that we bargained wih "muscle."

The biggest blow to unions was back when Regan was President

Michael I'll agree on the ATC being the second blow. The first was that labor turned on their Union's endorsement and voted Reagan in. However, the people made the choice.

The recession in the 1980's didn't help advance labor's cause either.

What many of us are to blame for is getting to a point where we could lose our nation. We really need to start carrying the identity of plain old American rather than wearing all the hats that divide us.

Originally Posted by TyRANTosaur

Unions have lost their luster. They are controled by activists with their own agendas. The teacher's unions support gay activism and pro-abortion issues, and they expect the members to agree. Many members that I have dealt with do not. States have pursued the idea of allowing teachers to work without them having to pay dues to the unions due to these issues.

The members let the activists take control by not being active in what goes on. They sit at home with their familys on meeting night eating dinner while they should be at the meetings voicing their opinions and voting on key issues.
Unions lost their luster because the members lost interest... and the membership is the union. The members can only blame themselves for the plight they are in.

How does a strike help the business or the economy? How does it help the workers? Yes, sometimes the workers get their way. Yes, sometimes they have legitimate reasons for striking. But are most strikes truly in the best interest of the country?

How can a strike not help the economy? Meat packers at one time made 15 dollars an hour 15 years ago. Now they start out at less then 10 dollars an hour. They went backwards.......... Why? Because the members don't participate. Those raises went to the CEO's in the from of multi million dollar salaries. Are strikes in the best interest of the country? YES, they are. There have been too many takeaways over the last 30 years when companies could afford to pay the raises and offer healthcare without copays. How many jobs do you want to work just to support your family? 2? 3?

All I am saying, is these unions MUST work in the best interest of the business and it's members. In the end, THAT is what is best for the union of the people that makes up the United States.

And the best interest of the workers is to have you benefits taken away and tier systems that last for years for apprentiship programs? This results in lower wages for the workers and eventually less wages for workers as the our consumer price index rises? What is good for America is to go back to the tarrif system and forget this world economy crap. World economy is only in the interest of big business so they can exploit the poor of third world countries while they put Americans out of jobs, and when they do find jobs they take a hit on their wages of over 11,000 dollars anually........ Is that good for America or our economy? Less money to buy less products puts a real dent in our own buying power and our economy........ the only ones profiting are the elete class of big business.

It wasn't just the teamsters that were involved with organized crime. If you studied up on the history of labor you will see that they were very active and very helpful for the common laborer.
Like my grandfather used to say. They are a necessary evil. They were the needed muscle to fight against the government and big business.
Now instead of needing the muscle, we need to organize the people again. We need people that will fight, not the couch potato's that say let someone else do it.
America has gotten lazy. We rode on the shirt tails of our forefathers for too long now. It's almost time to take up the good fight again. It will be the only way to get our ground back. When the American citizen gets tired of being taken advantage of, and when he cannot feed his family with the job he has, the worm will turn. I would hope to see it in my lifetime, but I doubt it will happen within those years. The American worker has not suffered enough yet. And the sad part of all this.......... WE let it happen.

Michael

Oh and by the way lol you would be surprised who you have to get in bed with to get the job done.........The difference between the government and organized crime is.......... the government says its the law and they have the military and law enforcement to back them up. Organized crime makes their own law.

Originally Posted by loservillelabor

The mafia has always been involved with labor.

I wasn't a Teamster. I never had any inkling that we bargained wih "muscle."

[quote:1rrch0ck]The biggest blow to unions was back when Regan was President

Michael I'll agree on the ATC being the second blow. The first was that labor turned on their Union's endorsement and voted Reagan in. However, the people made the choice.

The recession in the 1980's didn't help advance labor's cause either.

What many of us are to blame for is getting to a point where we could lose our nation. We really need to start carrying the identity of plain old American rather than wearing all the hats that divide us.[/quote:1rrch0ck]

Originally Posted by TyRANTosaur

Unions have lost their luster. They are controled by activists with their own agendas. The teacher's unions support gay activism and pro-abortion issues, and they expect the members to agree. Many members that I have dealt with do not. States have pursued the idea of allowing teachers to work without them having to pay dues to the unions due to these issues.

Unions have lost their luster, and so has having a sovereign nation. The problem with those unions is liberal people. I don't know about those union members, but if my union crossed my line they could expect in one hand and ... in the other and see which got full.

How does a strike help the business or the economy? How does it help the workers? Yes, sometimes the workers get their way. Yes, sometimes they have legitimate reasons for striking. But are most strikes truly in the best interest of the country?

All I am saying, is these unions MUST work in the best interest of the business and it's members. In the end, THAT is what is best for the union of the people that makes up the United States.

I know. No problem. We'll learn to talk about it if we're honest.

How can a strike not help the economy? Meat packers at one time made 15 dollars an hour 15 years ago. Now they start out at less then 10 dollars an hour. They went backwards.......... Why? Because the members don't participate.

Hold on Brother. I'm no fan of the UFCW that hands out the amnesty signs to the illegals, but in the 70's and 80's the meat packing people suffered some long hard strikes. They fought valiantly, but just couldn't get the public on board. Then goons and strike breakers dealt them a major blow. The amnesty of 1986 pretty much finished them off and the government sanctioned illegal alien invasion since then finisjhed it.

I was fortunate to be in a union that was fair in negotiations. We were not there to squeeze the employer. If the employer could not afford a generous pay increase because of lack of business or funds, we at times would have to tell the membership that they had to make concessions.
Some Unions would go gangbusters no matter what. Makes no sence to put a business out of business. There are also ways to deal with bad members to that get fired. You have to represent them no matter if they deserved it or not, but the level of representation seems to play a factor in some cases of bad employees........... if you get my drift.
I do not agree with the tactics of some unions, as I don't agree with the tactis of businesses either. Depends on the business. It's a case by case issue.
I have always been fair in the contracts I have negociated.
I always hope for a fair and honest employer, and I find that smaller businesses are a little more fair then big business.

Originally Posted by loservillelabor

Originally Posted by TyRANTosaur

Unions have lost their luster. They are controled by activists with their own agendas. The teacher's unions support gay activism and pro-abortion issues, and they expect the members to agree. Many members that I have dealt with do not. States have pursued the idea of allowing teachers to work without them having to pay dues to the unions due to these issues.

Unions have lost their luster, and so has having a sovereign nation. The problem with those unions is liberal people. I don't know about those union members, but if my union crossed my line they could expect in one hand and ... in the other and see which got full.

How does a strike help the business or the economy? How does it help the workers? Yes, sometimes the workers get their way. Yes, sometimes they have legitimate reasons for striking. But are most strikes truly in the best interest of the country?

All I am saying, is these unions MUST work in the best interest of the business and it's members. In the end, THAT is what is best for the union of the people that makes up the United States.

I know. No problem. We'll learn to talk about it if we're honest.

Trust me, after being in organized labor for over 38 years, it sickens me to see some unions support the illegals. They are the reason for lower wages.
The strikes in the 70's and 80's were brutal. They were at a disadvantage and every striker is......... it's called the media. They don't report the tactics used by the employers in hiring strike breakers and thugs to start trouble at the picket lines so the picketers will get arrested. Unions have always gotten a bad rap in the media. That is why most people don't get on board with us. They think we are a bunch of thugs, when in fact that is far from the truth. All alot of unions want is a fair shake for the members. Some are radicals that I don't always agree with. Sometimes aggression needs to take place ......... depends on the situation and the employer.

Originally Posted by loservillelabor

How can a strike not help the economy? Meat packers at one time made 15 dollars an hour 15 years ago. Now they start out at less then 10 dollars an hour. They went backwards.......... Why? Because the members don't participate.

Hold on Brother. I'm no fan of the UFCW that hands out the amnesty signs to the illegals, but in the 70's and 80's the meat packing people suffered some long hard strikes. They fought valiantly, but just couldn't get the public on board. Then goons and strike breakers dealt them a major blow. The amnesty of 1986 pretty much finished them off and the government sanctioned illegal alien invasion since then finisjhed it.

Makes no sence to put a business out of business. There are also ways to deal with bad members to that get fired. You have to represent them no matter if they deserved it or not, but the level of representation seems to play a factor in some cases of bad employees........... if you get my drift.

Glad you brought that up Michael. People don't all know that the law of the land requires that every union member get representation. No employer keeps an employee they really don't want despite what you might hear. I've served as steward and have been drifted a time or two.