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Thread: Sarah Palin Calls Out Trump's Carrier Deal, Warns Against 'Crony Capitalism'

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  1. #11
    Senior Member patbrunz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Keeping Carrier in Indianapolis. . . , it's not crony capitalism or state interventionsim.
    I agree with much of what you say, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Singling out an individual company and giving them special treatment by the government is government intervention and is not fair to other companies who don't get the same kind of deal. Giving an individual company money (which essentially is what the deal is) is the very definition of government intervention. It doesn't matter if in the end Carrier is still losing money or not. That is irrelevant.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patbrunz View Post
    I agree with much of what you say, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Singling out an individual company and giving them special treatment by the government is government intervention and is not fair to other companies who don't get the same kind of deal. Giving an individual company money (which essentially is what the deal is) is the very definition of government intervention. It doesn't matter if in the end Carrier is still losing money or not. That is irrelevant.
    What special treatment did they get that's unfair to other companies? The $7 million deal the state of Indiana gave Carrier is less than what Indiana does for most companies. According to Pence statement at the announcement briefing, it's in the bottom one-third of what Indiana does for companies in their state, which means 2/3 of the companies got more than Carrier.

    The only thing Carrier got that to our knowledge others besides Ford didn't get, were the phone calls from Trump telling the CEO of their parent company, United Technologies, like it is and gonna be, which I totally support. And he's getting ready if he hasn't already to call Rexnord and every other company thinking about leaving the United States for foreign lands that he knows about. He's not going to sit idly by, do nothing and let these companies leave our country if he can say or do something to prevent this destructive job loss.

    After all:

    "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke"

    Last edited by Judy; 12-03-2016 at 03:21 PM.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    How Donald Trump got Carrier to stay - Dec. 1, 2016 - CNN Money

    money.cnn.com/2016/12/01/news/companies/donald-trump-carrier-jobs/
    2 days ago - Carrier is getting a modest $7 million in financial incentives over the next ...
    The government also pays for $1.5 billion of its research and development costs. ...
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  4. #14
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    How Donald Trump got Carrier to stay

    by Chris Isidore and Eric Bradner @CNNMoney December 1, 2016: 2:42 PM ET

    Carrier is getting a modest $7 million in financial incentives over the next 10 years from the state of Indiana to keep 1,000 jobs at an Indianapolis plant, sources familiar with the deal tells CNN.

    That is just a fraction of the estimated $65 million a year it expected to save if it had moved those jobs to Mexico. It suggests that the incentives cited by Carrier were not the only factor in its decision to stay put.

    The company will get $500,000 per year in state income tax refunds, as long as it keeps at least 1,069 manufacturing jobs in the state.


    It will also get about $200,000 a year to retrain workers, funding which is generally provided by the state. Carrier actually had to return some retraining funds to the state when it announced plans to move to Mexico earlier this year, and this deal reinstates that money.


    Related: The NAFTA teardown - Here's where Trump could start


    Carrier announced late Tuesday that it had reached a deal with President-elect Donald Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence, who is currently governor of Indiana, to keep about 1,000 of 1,400 jobs at its Indianapolis plant, rather than move them to Mexico.

    The company said state "incentives" from Indiana were an "important consideration" to its decision to stay put.


    But experts say the state incentives are more likely window dressing.


    Most research indicates that economic development incentives rarely change a firm's behavior, according to Nathan Jensen, a professor at the University of Texas. "They are a subsidy to a company with little value to society. Our research shows that offering incentives is a great way for politicians to take credit, or minimize blame, for company decisions."


    Even though this package of incentives isn't a lot of money, the practice is worrisome from a policy perspective, Jensen said.


    "It's clearly a small deal. But you have a business that made a threat getting $7 million it doesn't need," Jensen said, "while there are small businesses paying the full tax rate." He added that "there's the concern that this only encourages more companies to make this kind of threat to move, if not to Mexico then to another state."


    Carrier's statement also cited Trump's promise to "create an improved, more competitive U.S. business climate."


    It's not yet clear how much of the company's decision was based on concerns about maintaining the significant amount of business it does with the government.


    Carrier parent United Technologies (UTX) is a major defense contractor, with $5.6 billion in revenue from federal government contracts, or 10% of its total revenue.

    The government also pays for $1.5 billion of its research and development costs.


    "I have no doubt that the company was thinking about more than a single plant when they made the decision," said Jensen.


    Trump had also threatened to impose steep tariffs on goods made in Mexico that are exported back to the U.S. And he has vowed to renegotiate NAFTA, the free trade agreement between the U.S., Mexico and Canada. The uncertainty about the future of NAFTA could also have made Carrier reconsider the move.


    Related: 1,000 jobs saved by Trump. Thousands more to go


    Whatever the reason for the change of heart, members of the Trump team were thrilled with the credit he is getting for saving the Carrier jobs.


    "The President-elect and the Vice President(-elect) picked up the phone and called the CEO of United Technologies and told them we want to keep jobs here. Can't remember the last time a president did that," Steven Mnuchin, Trump's pick to be Treasury secretary, told reporters in the Trump Tower lobby Wednesday.


    The deal is being criticized by officials on both the right and the left. Sen. Bernie Sanders wrote in the Washington Post that U.S. workers' jobs are less secure because of the deal, since companies can simply threaten to move to Mexico in order to get tax breaks from the government.


    "In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country," Sanders wrote Thursday.


    Even some conservatives said they didn't like the idea of an incoming administration getting this involved in negotiations to save one company, especially one with such a minimal impact on the overall economy. They say it smacks of government interference in the marketplace, which they think is a bad idea.


    "It makes sense for a president and his team to change a tax code, change the regulatory environment to help businesses," Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a conservative Washington think tank, told CNN. "I'm not a big fan of this kind of negotiation. I think the more limited it is the better."



    CNNMoney (New York)First published December 1, 2016: 12:04 PM ET

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/01/news...-carrier-jobs/
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  5. #15
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
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    What impresses me so much about Sarah Palin is that she just spoke her mind with a very constructive and supportive criticism, even though the word is Trump is considering her to run Veterans Affairs! I personally love the sound of that and think Palin would be very uplifting to the morale of our veterans while playing a very important leadership role for women in Trump's administration.

    So the question becomes, does Trump really want other leaders in his administration or does he want Yes men and Yes women?

    Did Sarah Palin just talk herself out of a cabinet position on Trump's Train which he admits is a movement.

    And as a movement, how would we feel about Trump's appointing or dismissal of Palin?

    W
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Beezer's Avatar
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    Do we really know what the "deal" is? Trump is not even in office yet, where is this in writing? And how much business was Carrier going to lose by pissing people off and moving to Mexico? They will just go buy another air conditioner. They knew their sales were going to tank. Just look at Kellogg and Ford and Nabisco.

    United Technologies also has a lot on the line with government contracts and Trump could make sure they lose out.

    If anybody took anybody "hostage"...it was the American people by pledging to NOT buy their products and they know it.

    Sara Palin can be a good cheerleader...but she can also be a dimwit. If anybody thinks Trump is going to cut a separate deal with each and every Corporation in this Country that is absurd.
    Last edited by Beezer; 12-03-2016 at 09:32 PM.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    Early Trump supporter Palin suggests Carrier deal is 'crony capitalism'

    Published December 03, 2016 FoxNews.com

    Sarah Palin -- an early Donald Trump supporter and possible administration hire -- is questioning whether the president-elect’s Carrier jobs deal is a case of “crony capitalism.”

    The former Alaska governor and 2008 GOP vice-presidential nominee says she’s “ecstatic” for Carrier employees.


    However, she also wonders whether Trump’s successful bid to keep the manufacturer from moving 1,000 jobs from Indiana to Mexico is in fact a case of political influence on the free market, while acknowledging that the specifics of the deal remain unclear.



    Sarah Palin

    “When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent,” Palin wrote in an op-ed for the Young Conservative website.

    The deal purportedly involves the furnace and air conditioning manufacturer getting $6 million in tax subsidies and $1 million in training grants over 10 years.


    Fiscal conservatives repeatedly criticized outgoing Democratic President Obama of “picking winners and losers” for providing tax credits and other incentives to so-called green energies like solar and wind power while introducing more federal regulations on coal-firing plants.


    “Republicans oppose this, remember?” Palin wrote. “We support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail.”


    Palin is purportedly being considered for the post of Veterans Affairs secretary.


    Trump vowed on the campaign trail to help military veterans receive better health care through the agency and to keep the Carrier jobs from going to Mexico, part of his overarching promise to stop U.S. companies from moving operation from Midwest manufacturing states to countries with lower costs.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    It's stunning that Sarah Palin thinks saving American jobs that pay $25 an hour plus benefits is "crony capitalism." I can no longer support her because of it.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Beezer's Avatar
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    A couple years ago Governor Perry encouraged businesses to move to Texas. No State Income Tax, Right to Work State, and he was going to give them incentives to do so. Those incentives could include anything from lower Property Tax, etc.

    This is no different than Indiana...or when Boeing moved from Seattle to N.C. North Carolina gave them incentives to move to the State. Many States do this and Trump knows how to get it done...read Art of the Deal.

    Whatever "deal" was made...was probably already in place with tax incentives to UT (Carrier) or the State made the deal to keep them there, this in nothing new or Earth shattering. This is between the State and the Company. Trump looked at the deal...counseled Pence on it on how to put the pressure on UT and Carrier. Plus Trump could get bids and put UT out of the government contracts already in place.

    Palin, the Media, and people are really blowing this way out of proportion. Palin is a loose cannon.

    A lot of people do not like Palin. I personally would not want her in a Cabinet position. She lives in AK, has a lot of personal baggage...is she really going to be committed to a full time job and be there getting the job done? Would taxpayers be on the hook for flying her back and forth to AK? I doubt she would move.

    Look at Rubio...he was never there to vote on things and people called him out on it. I think Palin would be just as absent at the job.
    Judy likes this.
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