Thread: There may be a positive in amnesty after all.

swatchick, the thing that's funny about them using decks for extra sleeping quarters could not happen here. We are cold and wet 9 months out of the year, as well, the one thing I am finding is the illegals in our area rarely want to rock the boat, they want to stay out of the publics eye.

Though, I do think if we were not living here, they would be doing more things which were questionable.

As for the roaches swatchick, we used to not have them till the manager next door to us moved out and illegals moved in. Cockroaches are not native to the Northwest at all. Our landlord did not want to abate them, but we forced him to as it is a law that is strictly enforced by the state, and he knew it too.

We also had to call the landlord on these people next door, as they were piling their garbage up in the garage for about a week at a time, and we share that wall and could smell it into the kitchen! Now I ask, why? What is that issue about not throwing your garbage away?

OK, I am really off topic, I know.

Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth

Dyehard when I talk about these feelings, I do not refer directly to them about our own finances, but overall we have to acknowledge that when an American family is going hungry, and when Americans cannot support themselves or their families due to the huge influx of cheap, illegal labor, that is where the resentment begins. I also heavily resent the businesses that are encouraging the illegal immigration problem here as if they only hired those who were legal or Americans, we most likely would not be in this forum at all.

But....see it like this. My husband is 56, I 39. We have two school aged kids yet at home. I have had to homeschool as the schools here are severely overcrowded, and funding is at a standstill. My kids were falling heavily behind, however the youngest was learning Spanish (I say that with heavy sarcasm)!! We knew we needed to do something so we started homeschooling them, which for the most part, takes me out of the running for a full time job (although I have been looking to find a potential night job to work around husbands work and schoolwork).

So we live on his income, which is not much. He works for a company that he will be able to work his way up, which he has somewhat already. Things are tight. We survive, but it is slim. This employer is careful about hiring only legal immigrants, but knowing he can hire them for less, overall wages he offers to everyone is less.

What begins to burn us up is that here we are, law-abiding, working hard to make sure our children get the education they NEED, yet we have to sacrifice that time I could be using to have my own income, because illegals are here and using our schools in record numbers, taking precious resources from American kids, and also dumbing down the system.

Next, we go in the grocery store, and since we have an income, and will not lie about it, or have more kids just to benefit from the state, we scrape for grocery money. Then we see the families from our own neighborhood in the store with their 3 to 5 kids, with their WIC, and then the women get out their state food cards (which state of Oregon swears they do not give them). I was told by a young Latino-American woman that lived here that all the women she knows of come here, and have a few kids, then claim the father is not lving with them, but maybe he is paying the rent. Then she said they get all sorts of help from the state.

She told me this like it was funny they knew how to dupe the state, as though I might think the same way. This young woman told me this is common place with the illegal women.

I took what she said at face value, since she would have not benefited from lying to me.

So this is where my resentment comes in. We live honestly, and to find out that while we do that, those here illegally are duping the government and living quite comfortably, more so than many Americans can afford to live.

I resent it, yes, and not just for myself, but for many people I know who struggle to feed their kids, or worry about their kids teeth with no dental insurance, or no medical. I resent them and my government for turning a blind eye to their corruption.

Would our situation be better if the illegals were not present here? I think overall things would improve financially for this country and then we would feel it in a trickle down effect.

I BELIEVE EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN IS AFFECTED BY ILLEGALS IN SOME WAY BUT NOT NECESSARITY IN THE SAME WAY, EVERY MAN, WOMAN IN CHILD AND WE ALL HAVE THAT IN COMMON. A COMMON CAUSE TO RID OUR COUNTY OF THE INVASION OF ILLEGAL ALIENS.

AMERICAN POWER!!!

Diehard; You are 100% correct.

Every American is affected by the presence of illegals in this country and the way our government is handling the situation.

It isn't affecting the wealthy as much since they can send their children to private schools, live in gated communities, pay for their healthcare costs, and they can afford the added taxes.

The rest of us are having our education system destroyed by this. Our children are falling farther and farther behind the rest of the world. They may be learning to pass the tests, but in many instances, they are learning little else.

Our healthcare costs are skyrocketing. When the illegals use our healthcare system and do not pay, the hospitals and doctors just up their prices to the rest of us. IN turn, those who are fortunate enough to have healthcare insurance, then must pay higher premiums.

We are at the mercy of the illegals who drive drunk, who are gang members, sell drugs, and just in general disregard the laws of the land.

Our auto insurance is so expensive since illegals do cause wrecks and seldom have insurance.

Then, of course, we all - rich, poor and in between - are loosing our country.

If we need more skilled educated people, why don't we, as a country, invest in Americans and educate them to do these jobs. Instead, the children of illegals are getting a lot of the education monies and our children are being shortchanged.

Yes, I agree our government is to blame - but don't let the illegals off the hook. They know exactly what they are doing and they know they are takiing from our children and they are laughing about it.

I don't think bringing all their families here will cause their income to be spent here. Many of these people are using this money sent home to buy property there and to invest in Mexico. I can't see them suddenly deciding they are going to spend it all here. Why should they when our government will continue to care for them.

We know our government is going to do nothing - worse than nothing.

So what can we do?

I agree with you on this. The only thing I somewhat disagree with is that if there are jobs where there are not enough skilled people then we should allow some in legally. At least until there are enough Americans to fill those positions. As I have said before, they will pay taxes, buy homes and become Americanized. They will not cost tax payers anything.

If there are jobs for which we do not have enough skilled workers - then bring them in temporarily, while we educate our own - temporarily.

Now the criteria must be that there are no workers to fill the jobs. It should not be that there are no workers willing to work for the wages offered - which is the case sometimes.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

If there are jobs for which we do not have enough skilled workers - then bring them in temporarily, while we educate our own - temporarily.

Now the criteria must be that there are no workers to fill the jobs. It should not be that there are no workers willing to work for the wages offered - which is the case sometimes.

Then why doesn't the Federal government have a program that helps match gifted American citizens with jobs that exist in the American government?

We already have huge numbers of trained, technically minded Amercan citizens whose jobs have been eliminated because of offshore outsourcing and H1-B temporary foreign visas being given to foreigners who then take these jobs from American citizens who already have them and in some cases are forced to train their foreign replacements before being fired from their jobs.

Please do your homework.

We need to be fair to Americans but we also need jobs filled in many cases where there are not enough trained Americans. In those cases people should be allowed to imigrate here to fill those positions under the condition no American looses their job to them. The people should be allowed to stay here and once a certain job has no shortages then no immigrants with those skills should be allowed to come here.
If it weren't for massive recruitment in Canada, there would be a huge shortage of both doctors and registered nurses. There is a registered nursing shortage already as many people aren't interested in that career due to the fact that with a 4 year university degree, you can make more money in other careers where you have better hours and holidays off. The same goes for teachers. In South Florida a shortage of certified teachers is becoming a problem due to low pay. If there is not enough of them, then why not hire certified teachers from countries such as Britian, Canada or Australia for example as they speak English.
What we don't need is uneducated laborers.

Originally Posted by swatchick

If there is not enough of them, then why not hire certified teachers from countries such as Britian, Canada or Australia for example as they speak English.
What we don't need is uneducated laborers.

The American government would never allow something like this because the US in the in the grip of what could only be described as "political correctness" hysteria. If English teachers are badly needed enough then teachers with extremely heavy accents from either India or China will be recruited because it would be considered "racist" to not do that. I know it sounds strange but I think enough people on Alipac will back me up on this.

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/H1BTeachers.txt

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:15:06 -0700
From: Norm Matloff <matloff@cs.ucdavis.edu>
To: Norm Matloff <matloff@laura.cs.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: "the rest of the story" on H-1B teachers in Las Vegas

To: H-1B/L-1/offshoring e-newsletter

Some of you are aware of the recent commotion in Las Vegas regarding the hiring of H-1B teachers. Joe Guzzardi, a teacher and writer in Lodi
(Sacramento area), wrote an excellent column on this recently (enclosed
below; more to come, he tells me). Rob Sanchez has also commented in
his e-newsletter.

One of the points made is that there is a sizable pool of laid-off
techies who could be great science and math teachers, and that efforts
should be focused on developing that resource rather than using H-1Bs as
a first resort. And a sharply-worded editorial ran in the local Las
Vegas press (enclosed below), expressing outrage that the district is
hiring H-1B teachers even though it rejected an award-winning teacher on
a technicality.

In September 2001, Cleveland hired 50 math and special education
teachers from India. This year 500 pink slips are being sent out in what
the Cleveland Plain-Dealer describes as "The first wave in what will be
deep staff cuts in the school district."

In his warm and fuzzy story titled "Teachers Arrive From Philippines,"
Antonio Planas reported that 51 Filipino teachers recruited in February
to work for the Clark County School District have completed their
7,000-mile journey. They are headed directly to the classroom.

Another teacher, Elmer Potes, admitted that he speaks broken English
with a heavy accent. Will his high-school math students, already
sufficiently challenged, be able to understand him?

Ken Record, a longtime Clark County resident who follows education
issues, said "The way math is taught today, verbal skills are very
important."

The Filipino teachers are legally in the U.S. on non-immigrant H-1B
visas. And that fact begs a bigger question: Did Clark County exhaust
every opportunity to hire an American before traveling to the other side
of the globe?

Rob Sanchez, who tracks non-immigrant visa issues and is the Webmaster
for the invaluable http://www.zazona.com, says school districts fail to
look at unemployed local professionals. Many laid off software
engineers, for example, have gone back to school to get education
degrees.

I don't believe in laying off Americans so someone else gets the job because that is just plain wrong. It is only when absolutely necessary.