Thread: Time to STOP THE REAL ID!

Originally Posted by MW

JP wrote:

Perhaps you would be better off not addressing me when i am speaking to someone else on the issue.

I'm sorry but I was under the impression that this was an open forum for debate and discussion. If you choose to have a private conversation, perhaps you should carry it off-line (just a suggestion). Honestly, your comment was a little rude, don't you think?

Personally, I think you should expect to be challenged by those who don't agree with your position. It's no secret that you've held nothing back in sharing your position. Shouldn't those of us who don't share your postion be afforded the same opportunity without expectation of a personal insult. Let's face the facts, there are those of us that don't share your concerns on REAL ID.


[quote:30iduffj]You said that a person could not steal id from a passport. Again I have proved you wrong. Watch the video.

Actually, it's you that is wrong because I never said that. If you think I did perhaps you wouldn't mind quoting my exact words. I've made absolutely no reference to passports. [/quote:30iduffj]

I am with you MW.

By the way, imagine if the government finds out that
I prefer thin crust pizza over deep pan!

Originally Posted by odiesback

Originally Posted by MW

JP wrote:

Perhaps you would be better off not addressing me when i am speaking to someone else on the issue.

I'm sorry but I was under the impression that this was an open forum for debate and discussion. If you choose to have a private conversation, perhaps you should carry it off-line (just a suggestion). Honestly, your comment was a little rude, don't you think?

Personally, I think you should expect to be challenged by those who don't agree with your position. It's no secret that you've held nothing back in sharing your position. Shouldn't those of us who don't share your postion be afforded the same opportunity without expectation of a personal insult. Let's face the facts, there are those of us that don't share your concerns on REAL ID.


[quote:3f8ekf9p]You said that a person could not steal id from a passport. Again I have proved you wrong. Watch the video.

Actually, it's you that is wrong because I never said that. If you think I did perhaps you wouldn't mind quoting my exact words. I've made absolutely no reference to passports.

I am with you MW.

By the way, imagine if the government finds out that
I prefer thin crust pizza over deep pan! [/quote:3f8ekf9p]

I'm also with you MW
I have no problem with the Real ID and all the points made against it are weak.

Originally Posted by MW

jp wrote:

You don't have to care, you can be naive and not care if someone walks nearby with a RFID reader and scans your private data and in turn uses it to clean out your bank account, fill out an income tax return, even get a loan on your home. Hey don't worry about it. Sit back and relax.

Can we please quit attempting to disguise "hyperbole" as fact? There is absolutely no crediable evidence to suggest that such a scenario would ever play out. Please enlighten us as to how a complete stranger will be able to obtain the information necessary to clean out our bank accounts, get a loan on our home, etc. from a secure driver's license or ID. The secure ID (driver's license or DMV issued identification card) will not offer anymore information than is already available through other avenues.

[quote:1nochwu0]You should not be so naive about the acts true intentions. It certainly will do nothing to stop terrorists of illegals.

As I've said before, I couldn't disagree more. The REAL ID will, without a doubt, make it much more difficult for illegal and potential terrorist to function among us. [/quote:1nochwu0]

You called my facts hyperbole again MW, and again you are wrong. You said that such a scenario could not happen and again you are wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jpRFgDPWVA

If you dont like what I have to say, then dont address me. I have provided the evidence in many threads. If you dont get it, I understand. It may be above the heads for some people to comprehend that a government would actully abuse and misuse authority. I mean that has never happened before.


Watch the video and tell me how information from a passport cannot be stolen and duplicated. The owner of the passport will not even know it until its too late.

By the way MW. Why don't you use your real name on the forums. My name can be found easy enough, but what about you?

Here is a brochure from L-1 Identity Solutions from their web site. See the sample ID card. Notice they include the person’s party affiliation? This information as well as religious affiliation can be required in the future if it is deemed necessary by DHS, no Questions or Restrictions on what kind of information they can obtain or require about each and everyone of us. http://www.l1id.com/images/stories/Prod ... 061116.pdf

There is no such thing as a secure database. How do I know? I have been working with computers for ten years. Ever get a virus? That is a form of being hacked. There are other ways hackers get into databases as well. Below are a few examples of what happens to databases every day in this country.

Homeland Security has been hacked 850 times
http://buzzdrivers.com/content/view/16/26/

Contractor's Planted Trojans into their system
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/US ... 884,00.htm

Chinese hackers: No site is safe
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/03/07/chin ... index.html

US blames China for Pentagon hack
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21979 ... k-pentagon


Lets talk about the Information sharing, not just information between the states, but information with Mexico and Canada. All information that you hand over to the DMV will be shared with the Canadian Government and the Crooked Mexican Government.

Some who are supporting the Real ID tell me that it is not true, but let me prove otherwise.
Here is the Section of the Real ID that States the Sharing of information.

Sec. 203 (a) found on page 50 lines 16-23 of HR 418
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... fs.txt.pdf


6 SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.
17 (a) IN GENERAL.—To be eligible to receive any grant
18 or other type of financial assistance made available under
19 this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as
21 the ‘‘Driver License Agreement’’, in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the
23 motor vehicle databases of all other States.


Here is what the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators have to say about the Real ID and information sharing:
Until all the Real ID Act’s attendant regulations are known, it is difficult to appreciate all
requirements which may be imposed. The CDLA has not yet been completed and the Canadian provinces and territories will not necessarily be able to modify their driver license and revise their issuance and data exchange procedures by January 1, 2008. Expenses to comply will the millions of dollars which places a lot of pressure on the provinces and territories.www.aamva.org http://tinyurl.com/4u8vfo

AAMVA - Comments on DHS Proposed Rulemaking http://tinyurl.com/4u8vfo

Pg. 6 "In June 2005, the federal governments of Canada, the United States and Mexico published a ‘Report to Leaders’ entitled ‘Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America’. It provides general direction on a number of security issues, although it does not specifically mention the use of driver licences as part of any security solution. Under the section headed ‘Securing North America from External Threats’ is the following statement. “We will develop standards for lower-cost secure proof of status and nationality documents to facilitate cross-border travel, and work to achieve optimal production before January 1, 2008.â€

Originally Posted by MW

POTUS wrote:

If the REAL ID is intended to stop or dramatically slow the illegal invasion, why does the Department of Homeland Security, that is so keen on seeing it pass, have no interest in securing our borders?

That's a good question, POTUS. However, you know it's not a question that anyone on ALIPAC can answer completely (it's complex). IMO, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, far left leaning Democrats, and Bush have been our biggest roadblocks.

I don't think anyone has said that REAL ID will stop illegal immigration. What it will do is make it more difficult for the illegals and terrorist to move about and function in our society. Isn't reducing their ability to function in our society what we all want?

Yes and Simpson-Mazzoli was going to go after employers who hired illegals. Remember? I think the Feds a p*ssing down our backs, and telling us it's raining with the REAL ID, and I think this is their REAL endgame - Are You Ready For Your North American Union ID Card?: www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16058

Originally Posted by jp_48504

Text of the Driver License Agreement
Numbers USA Source:
http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/AAMVA%20 ... 20text.pdf

Are you awake yet? Are you going to do anything about it or will you just sit there complain and talk big?

All your references are weak and look again at numbers usa since there was a reference to it.

"REAL ID Act Will NOT Create A National ID Card"

http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/realidact021505.html

Since the majority of us already have: A driver's license, a social security number (the ssn is supposed to be filed for at birth now I believe), one, two, or many more bank credit cards, airline cards for travel miles, likely a passport.....I think we are already databased to death. And it is too late to stop it. I don't know what is on those magnetic strips or barcodes on my cards. Do you know what is on the barcodes of your cards now?? BUT, I do not want my personal information shared anymore than necessary. And, since I am not Canadian nor Mexican, it isn't those governments business either.
If I knew how to quote one sentence...but I don't so have to do it this way..Oldiesback said he has a chip on his passport. How do you know that? Am wondering if mine has one.

Originally Posted by mbrown

Since the majority of us already have: A driver's license, a social security number (the ssn is supposed to be filed for at birth now I believe), one, two, or many more bank credit cards, airline cards for travel miles, likely a passport.....I think we are already databased to death. And it is too late to stop it. I don't know what is on those magnetic strips or barcodes on my cards. Do you know what is on your barcodes already?? BUT, I do not want my personal information shared anymore than necessary. And, since I am not Canadian nor Mexican, it isn't those governments business either.
If I knew how to quote one sentence...but I don't so have to do it this way..Oldiesback said he has a chip on his passport. How do you know that? Am wondering if mine has one.

This may help you
http://www.computerworld.com/action/art ... Id=9056338

Social Security is voluntary not mandatory.

Now we have a DNA database being set up for all new borns without parental consent. Just imagine how easy it will be to track people by their DNA, not to mention insurance companies not insuring people with certain traits in their DNA.

They put whatever information they want on the magnetic stripes, more will be included with the New ID.

Notice the political affiliation put right on the id card? Why not put the religious affiliation too?

JP wrote:

You called my facts hyperbole again MW, and again you are wrong. You said that such a scenario could not happen and again you are wrong.

Once again you're twisting my words to serve your agenda. I never said such a scenario couldn't happen with the RFID technology. Here's exactly what I said:

There is absolutely no crediable evidence to suggest that such a scenario would ever play out. Please enlighten us as to how a complete stranger will be able to obtain the information necessary to clean out our bank accounts, get a loan on our home, etc. from a secure driver's license or ID (no mention of RFID). The secure ID (driver's license or DMV issued identification card) will not offer anymore information than is already available through other avenues.

You keep inisting on discussing RFID technology. As I've told you on at least two separate occasions, RFID technology is not is not a requirment. DHS has already distributed the actual requirements the states must fulfill to meet the REAL ID requirements and the utilization of RFID is not listed among the requirements. When our government starts pushing for RFID technology, I'll discuss the issue that issue with you then. However, for now RFID technology is not a requirement. I don't know how to better explain this to you. I've shown the evidence that supports my claim. If your state attempt to utilize RFID technology, than you'll need to direct your argument to your state government.

By the way, anyone can be made to sound wrong when you twist their words or misquote them. Oh, and your video was good for entertainment purposes but it proved nothing because I'm not talking about RFID technology. Furthermore, your video showed someone opening a door, not cleaning out a bank account or obtaining a mortgage under someone elses name.

JP wrote:

If you dont like what I have to say, then dont address me.

You'll receive no free pass from me, especially when I think your misleading or wrong.

By the way MW. Why don't you use your real name on the forums. My name can be found easy enough, but what about you?

What in the world does my name have to do with the REAL ID Act? If you're attempting to make a point, I missed it.