Thread: Time to STOP THE REAL ID!

I don't understand how some of us here that have been fighting illegal immigration would even for one second trust our government regarding the REAL ID. Our government is FORCING us to have this ID. Why are they not FORCING the illegals to leave our country! Why don't they shut down the borders and start punishing businesses that hire illegals. I thought that is what the SAVE ACT is all about! Why do AMERICANS need this ID! Come on...OPEN YOUR EYES!! This ID will do nothing to stop illegal immigration. It will however do everything to track YOU!! The troublemakers, the ones not conforming. Don't you get it? Do you really think that once the NAU is complete that you will even have a VOICE anylonger? Hummm, you are making racist comments against illegals, you need to be stopped! Don't forget what is happening to Bridget Bardot in Paris! She is in major hot water over anti-illegal immigration COMMENTS! Did you get that...COMMENTS! WAKE UP!

Originally Posted by alexcastro

. It will however do everything to track YOU!

How can an ID track You? Is it a GPS transponder? Worried about being tracked then hope you don't have a cell phone because you can be tracked.

alexcastro wrote:

This ID will do nothing to stop illegal immigration. It will however do everything to track YOU!!

Yes it will and no it won't. The secure driver's license and/or state issued identification card (REAL ID) will not allow anyone to track you. If you think otherwise, please explain why. Remember, chip (RFID) technology is not a requirement of Real ID. REAL ID will make it harder for illegal immigrants to function in our society which will in turn force some, if not many, of them to return to their homeland.

Did you read the opening post in the following thread:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-114118.html

Originally Posted by alexcastro

I don't understand how some of us here that have been fighting illegal immigration would even for one second trust our government regarding the REAL ID. Our government is FORCING us to have this ID. Why are they not FORCING the illegals to leave our country! Why don't they shut down the borders and start punishing businesses that hire illegals. I thought that is what the SAVE ACT is all about! Why do AMERICANS need this ID! Come on...OPEN YOUR EYES!! This ID will do nothing to stop illegal immigration. It will however do everything to track YOU!! The troublemakers, the ones not conforming. Don't you get it? Do you really think that once the NAU is complete that you will even have a VOICE anylonger? Hummm, you are making racist comments against illegals, you need to be stopped! Don't forget what is happening to Bridget Bardot in Paris! She is in major hot water over anti-illegal immigration COMMENTS! Did you get that...COMMENTS! WAKE UP!

Well said.

Originally Posted by alexcastro

I don't understand how some of us here that have been fighting illegal immigration would even for one second trust our government regarding the REAL ID. Our government is FORCING us to have this ID. Why are they not FORCING the illegals to leave our country! Why don't they shut down the borders and start punishing businesses that hire illegals. I thought that is what the SAVE ACT is all about! Why do AMERICANS need this ID! Come on...OPEN YOUR EYES!! This ID will do nothing to stop illegal immigration. It will however do everything to track YOU!! The troublemakers, the ones not conforming. Don't you get it? Do you really think that once the NAU is complete that you will even have a VOICE anylonger? Hummm, you are making racist comments against illegals, you need to be stopped! Don't forget what is happening to Bridget Bardot in Paris! She is in major hot water over anti-illegal immigration COMMENTS! Did you get that...COMMENTS! WAKE UP!

BINGO! AND A BIG BTTT!

Originally Posted by Once_A_Democrat

Originally Posted by alexcastro

. It will however do everything to track YOU!

How can an ID track You? Is it a GPS transponder? Worried about being tracked then hope you don't have a cell phone because you can be tracked.

Confused? Then read up on biometrics.

Confused? Then read up on biometrics.

The only biometrics required by DHS is digital photograph (facial recognition) and signature. Both of these items can already be found on our current driver's license. If anything else gets added, it's a state issue. Now, would someone please explain how we're going to be tracked?

Alexcastro wrote:

Our government is FORCING us to have this ID.

Wrong, folks will not be forced to get the Real ID. Without it you'll be required a passport to fly or enter a federal buildings though.

http://legislatorsagainstrealid.com/info_qanda.php

REAL ID Rules Expose International ID System REAL ID Proposed Guidelines: Questions & Answers

On March 1st, 2007, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) revealed its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) for the REAL ID ACT of 2005. NPRM tells states what they must do to comply with REAL ID federal standards for state driver's license/ID cards. DHS provided 20 questions and answers to explain the 162 page NPRM. However, the questions and answers reveal deceit more than answers and clearly exposes REAL ID as INTERNATIONAL ID.

REAL ID is the fulfillment of long-standing plans to require states to adopt biometric ID. Long before 9/11, these plans date back to the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986, (required biometric CDL enrollment) and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 that placed state ID under the influence of the AMMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators). The AAMVA is an international association of motor vehicle and law enforcement administrators that strongly advocates biometrics. Now that REAL ID is law, DHS officials have been boasting of biometrifying the world population and creating a permanent biometric link to one's identity to be used by nations and corporations.

Since 1996, the federal government has tried to hide the international influence that is pushing current driver's license design including the use of biometrics. This influence has come from two major international organizations, the AAMVA and the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization- affiliated with the United Nations). The AAMVA has international influence over driver's license design through State and international DMV, DPS agencies. The ICAO is in charge of creating an international biometric passport design for most nations that includes a chip for storing personal-biometric data.

REAL ID IS INTERNATIONAL ID

The NPRM finally names these organizations and defines their roles in the new ID standards. It is now much easier to see where DHS is REALLY going with REAL ID. One may also review the official reports on 9/11 that read like a roadmap to implement global biometrics. The new driver's license/ID card (DL/ID card) design adopts many features of the AAMVA's Personal Identification €“ AAMVA International Specification €“ DL/ID Card Design of 2005 (the NPRM drops the word international from its AAMVA specification description).

The ICAO sets the photo image capture specifications for REAL ID. These specifications are biometric compatible. In other words, REAL ID photo images can be read by facial image recognition software turning the images into a biometric ID image. These standards are also being adopted by many other nations for their biometric DL/ID cards and biometric passports. Biometrics is the foundational element for REAL ID, TWIC, WHTI, e-passport (globally), SPP and other federal initiatives.

Knowing these facts about international biometric ID, and then reading the DHS-NPRM questions and answers, it is easy to conclude that DHS is using deceit, not facts, to sway public opinion about REAL ID. Below are a few of the DHS Questions and Answers and the REAL ANSWERS in response.

REAL ID Proposed Guidelines: Questions & Answers DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

Where did this effort originate?

The 9/11 Commission recommended that the U.S. improve its system for issuing secure identification documents. In the Commission's words, At many entry points to vulnerable facilities, including gates for boarding aircraft, sources of identification are the last opportunity to ensure that people are who they say they are and to check whether they are terrorists. The Commission specifically urged the federal government to set standards for the issuance of€¦sources of identification, such as driver's licenses. Congress responded to this key recommendation by passing the Real ID Act

REAL ANSWER: Federal agencies have been pushing for a national biometric ID, since the mid 80's, long before 9/11. This is evident in laws and bills like the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. The 1986 law required biometrics for commercial license holders and the IIRIRA 1996 placed an international organization, the AAMVA, in charge of State ID standards. This issue is NOT about 9/11. It is about control. 9/11, and our nation's security, is being used as the most recent justification for biometrics.

DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

What is a REAL ID license needed for?

The REAL ID Act requires that a REAL ID driver's license be used for official purposes, as defined by DHS. In the rule, DHS is proposing to limit the official purposes of a REAL ID license to those listed by Congress in the law: accessing a Federal facility; boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft; and entering nuclear power plants. DHS may consider expanding these official purposes through future rulemakings to maximize the security benefits of REAL ID.

REAL ANSWER: REAL ID is to be used for official purposes as defined by DHS, not Congress. Those official purposes are listed as accessing a Federal facility; boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft; and entering nuclear power plants. However, the law states that federal agencies will no longer accept a non-compliant DL/ID after May 2008. Therefore, DHS is well within its authorized jurisdiction to expand these official purposes through future rulemakings. For example, a DHS form is now part of the process when one opens a bank account (not mentioned above). It must be assumed that DHS may, in the future, only accept a compliant ID for banking. DHS will have control over our financial lives as well as our driving and flying. Expanding official purposes may also include additional intrusive security measures DHS sees fit to employ.

DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

How does the NPRM protect Privacy of license holders?

Continuing to protect the privacy of license holders was a key consideration for DHS in the development of this NPRM, which contains a detailed analysis of the three key privacy issues posed by the Act: (1) the connectivity of the databases; (2) the protection of the personal information stored in the State databases; and (3) the protection of the personal information stored on machine readable technology on the DL/IDs. We invite comments on whether the steps outlined within the NPRM are appropriate and adequate.


DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

Who will have access to the information that the DMV will be required to collect?

As they do now, authorized DMV officials in the licensing State will have access to DMV records. DMV employees in one State cannot fish the records in another State. The proposed rule requires States to include a comprehensive security plan for safeguarding information collected, stored, or disseminated for purposes of complying with the REAL ID Act, including procedures to prevent unauthorized access, use, or dissemination of applicant information and images of source documents retained pursuant to the Act and standards and procedures for document retention and destruction.

REAL ANSWER: Privacy and massive disclosure of personal information are hardly compatible concepts, and in this case, illegal. Linking State databases violates the Fourth Amendment that protects us from illegal searches of our houses, papers, and effects. Information given to the State, and protected by State law, will be available to ALL 50 STATES, if REAL ID goes into effect (Sec. 37.33 (b) pg. 149 NPRM). The answer above says that other states cannot fish for information. But, the NPRM states:

States must provide to all other States electronic access to information contained in the motor vehicle database of the State, in a manner approved by DHS pursuant to this regulation.

Information is shared through an open and linked system without accountability. Information is available without first obtaining approval from the State that collected the data. THIS DOES NOT PROTECT PRIVACY. IT FACILITATES ID THEFT. A break-in at just ONE DMV, DPS or Tag Agent could result in total access to ALL personal-biometric information of ALL drivers in the U.S. This threat is amplified as data is shared globally.

DHS is also proposing a national one-stop-shopping database for verifying ID documents. This will give ALL STATES instant access to ALL our personal, historical, financial and identifiable information used for ID verification when obtaining an REAL ID DL/ID (pg 26), as well as access to FEDERAL DATABASES (see pg 26 NPRM federated query service and federal reference databases). Does this mean States (and DHS) will have access to our banking information, medical information, IRS records and State Tax records? There appears to be no limit as to what information will be linked and available in the system.

The AAMVA already provides States a portal for online SSN verification (SSOLV). Is our personal information to be verified through an international organization's website? This same AAMVA openly and publicly exposed the name, address and SSN of dozens of New Mexico residents on the AAMVA website. DHS's TSA division lost a hard drive containing personal information of thousands of employees. The AAMVA and DHS appear to be incapable of protecting their own data, much less the administration of an international database. It will be impossible to protect privacy with this system.

Also, employees at DMV, DPS agencies and tag agents will have to become instant experts in identifying fraudulent documents, immigration issues, and document-office security measures.

DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

Is this a National ID card?

No. The proposed regulations establish common standards for States to issue licenses. The Federal Government is not issuing the licenses, is not collecting information about license holders, and is not requiring States to transmit license holder information to the Federal Government that the Government does not already have (such as a Social Security Number). Most States already routinely collect the information required by the Act and the proposed regulations.

&
DHS QUESTION AND ANSWER

Do the proposed regulations require States to collect fingerprints or iris images from drivers?

No. Though States may independently choose to implement biometrics into their driver's license process, the NPRM does not require a State to collect fingerprints, iris images, or other biometric data in connection with obtaining a license and has no plans to serve as a repository for the face images the states will collect.

REAL ANSWER: No, it is not a National ID card, it is an INTERNATIONAL ID CARD. Card design, document scanning, signature storage, facial image capture, etc. and systems for interoperability €â€

""March 20, 2008
REAL ID – Plain and Simple

The driver’s license is the most commonly used identity document in the United States. Originally designed to verify that you’re allowed to drive, it is now the primary identification for almost everyone over the age of 16 in the United States. It’s used to enter federal buildings, board airplanes, prove your age, and it’s even used in some states as a debit card.

Like it or not, Americans rely on driver’s licenses for every day life. That’s why the security of state licensing systems is so important. And, licensing systems are only as secure as the weakest link.

Unfortunately, we learned this the hard way. Twice.

First, in 1995, when Timothy McVeigh was able to create a fake South Dakota license with ease; all it took was a manual typewriter and a kitchen iron. He used the license to rent a Ryder truck in Oklahoma and destroy the Murrah Federal Building. Then, on September 11, 2001, eighteen of the nineteen hijackers carried government-issued IDs – mostly state driver’s licenses, many obtained fraudulently.

The 9/11 Commission recognized that it’s too easy to get false identification in the U.S. That’s why the Commission determined that “(s)ecure identification should begin in the United States. The federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification, such as driver’s licenses.â€

Great defense jp, and many thanks for the informative posts.

My question for those that promote the RealID and find few faults with it, would have have to be, If you found Pandora's Box, would you be lured into opening it, or would you get on a boat and send it to the bottom of the ocean?

How many strangers do you trust? How many strangers would you trust with the keys to your life? Have you ever been a victim of idenity theft? Does the the BMV of your state make mistakes? Have they ever cost you hundreds of dollars? If they did, would you be impressed? Information in, information out. Can it be trusted? Can you say boondoggle? Would you buy a new vehicle made on a Friday? What BMV office have you ever been in and have been truely impressed with the personel and the service? Have you ever been lost in a paper shuffle? I have, and I lost 3 days work on account of others not having done their proper data entry. Oops, so sorry! The best part of it was that I was out in the Arizona desert during June and could do nothing about it til Tuesday, Monday was a holiday, and it was Saturday mornining. Info in, info out! Oh, part of the reason for that debacle was I fall under a more complicated system, my driver's license is federally controlled, state issued, yet federally controlled. The more complicated the system, the more room for errors. Yes, humans make mistakes.

Question is, how much info do you trust other humans with?

I know a fellow who was just out in the Napa Valley picking up a load of wine. This trucker got loaded with the wine and then had to submit his license (it was scanned) and have a photo taken of himself, this info was put into a corporate computer. Driver's license number and all other info on the card was available to whom? Sometimes the SS card is required as well. Yes, this driver has been the victim of idenity theft as well. Who cares? The fellow who processed the info had purple hair and earings in both ears. Who cares?

Not too many years ago a trucker showed his ID to the clerk and they checked it against the signature and your ID was handed back to you. Plenty of other paper work has already been exchanged with code words or carrier info, privy only to the driver, from the broker given, thus insured from fraud. Why do corporations want more? Because they can demand more, and the American sheeple keep giving more!

All American citizens should have to have federally controlled licenses, then all could enjoy the madness that is the federal government!

If you believe in the RealID, put your money where your mouth is, post your driver's license and SS # up on this site. Why not now? Why wait? Don't be scared, show no fear.