Thread: Time to STOP THE REAL ID!

"And, licensing systems are only as secure as the weakest link."

Bull's eye! Why go any further?

"First, in 1995, when Timothy McVeigh was able to create a fake South Dakota license with ease; all it took was a manual typewriter and a kitchen iron. He used the license to rent a Ryder truck in Oklahoma and destroy the Murrah Federal Building."

Lets see, If Tim McVeigh had presented his real driver's license then the clerk would not have rented him the Ryder truck? Hmm. "Your Tim McVeigh, your not infamous yet......but in a couple of days from now you will be. So I better not rent this truck to you."

"Then, on September 11, 2001, eighteen of the nineteen hijackers carried government-issued IDs – mostly state driver’s licenses, many obtained fraudulently."

The RealId will prevent this? So they get a RealId. So they buy airline tickets. So they still want their 72 virgins. Now what?

Terrorism starts in the mind. With an imagination and the will to follow through on a plan. The RealId will not prevent minds from wondering into dark corners or prevent dark things from occuring. Wishfull thinking at best. Just look at Waco. The RealId would not stop dark minds from murder and mayhem.

From chaos comes order. I bet I could make you buy a pair of steel toed boots. Just let me hit you in the foot with a ball pein hammer one time.

"We still live in a world where airplanes and passengers are a target of choice."

Did'nt the nation of Egypt know who was flying the airplane that crashed into the Atlantic after leaving Kennedy Airport a number of years ago. Perhaps they should have had a RealId and that would have saved, what, over 200 passengers?

Fear. Are you scared yet? Now what did I do with that ball pein hammer?

roundabout wrote:

If you believe in the RealID, put your money where your mouth is, post your driver's license and SS # up on this site. Why not now? Why wait? Don't be scared, show no fear.

Another poster attempted to utilize a similar argument. It's simply a non-starter, roundabout. Federal law will actually make your driver's license information more secure, not less secure.

Excerpt:

At its core, the regulation requires that, in order for a state’s ID to be used to gain access to federal facilities, airplanes and the like, the state must implement strong security standards in three areas.

First, the state must apply better standards when verifying the identification of those applying for driver’s licenses.

Second, states must increase the physical security features on the driver’s license card by making it harder to alter or forge (e.g., optical variable devices, ultraviolet features, micro-printing, fine line duplex patterns, and other features that cannot be reproduced using commercially available products).

Finally, it calls for the security of the production facilities and materials used in the production of licenses, as well as the security of the DMV databases.

In recent weeks, we've heard myth upon myth and anecdote after anecdote to counter the mounting momentum in favor of REAL ID. Fifty-one jurisdictions, to include forty-six states accounting for 97 percent of the licenses issued in the United States, are already on the road to driver's license security. That’s because Americans want identity protection, and it’s because they recognize that knowing who a person is matters. We still live in a world where airplanes and passengers are a target of choice.

That’s where REAL ID comes in. Plain and simple.

Roundabout wrote:

"First, in 1995, when Timothy McVeigh was able to create a fake South Dakota license with ease; all it took was a manual typewriter and a kitchen iron. He used the license to rent a Ryder truck in Oklahoma and destroy the Murrah Federal Building."

Lets see, If Tim McVeigh had presented his real driver's license then the clerk would not have rented him the Ryder truck? Hmm. "Your Tim McVeigh, your not infamous yet......but in a couple of days from now you will be. So I better not rent this truck to you."

Perhaps a little research on your part may prevent you from coming to a faulty conclusion in the future. You missed the whole point on the Tim McVeigh incident. Furthermore, McVeigh obviously had no desire to be identified, that is why he used a fake license instead of his own.

Excerpt:

3. Investigation by Federal agents at the scene of the explosion
have determined that the explosive was contained in a 1993 Ford owned
by Ryder Rental company.

a. A vehicle identification number (VIN) was found at the scene of
the explosion and determined to be from a part of the truck that
contained the explosive.

b. The VIN was traced to a truck owned by Ryder Rentals of Miami,
Florida.

c. Ryder Rentals informed the FBI that the truck was assigned to a
rental company known as Elliot's Body Shop in Junction City, Kansas.

4. The rental agent at Elliot's Body Shop in Junction
City, Kansas was interviewed by the FBI on April 19, 1995. The
individual who signed the rental agreement provided the following
information:

a. The person who signed the rental agreement identified himself as
BOB KLING, SSN: 962-42-9694, South Dakota's driver's license number
YF942A6, and provided a home address of 428 Malt Drive, Redfield,
South Dakota. The person listed the destination as 428 Maple Drive,
Omaha, Nebraska.

b. Subsequent investigation conducted by the FBI determine all this
information to be bogus.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cas12.htm

Under Real ID the license would have been discovered to be fake because there is no such person as Bob Kling with a SSN: 962-42-9694. It was bogus information that McVeigh created for the fake license he produced at his residence. Machine readable technology, which is called for under the Real ID Act, would have identified the license as a fake.

"Then, on September 11, 2001, eighteen of the nineteen hijackers carried government-issued IDs – mostly state driver’s licenses, many obtained fraudulently."

The RealId will prevent this? So they get a RealId. So they buy airline tickets. So they still want their 72 virgins. Now what?

Yes, Real ID could would have prevented the nineteen hijackers from obtaining the licenses they obtained fraudulently. Remember, some, if not all, of the hijackers had several different licenses. Real ID will only allows for one license per person. Anyone attempting to obtain more than one secure license would be identified for fraudulently attempting to obtain another license. Furthermore, two of the hijackers had expired visas. The licenses of those two would have expired when with their visas which means they wouldn't have been able to board the flight with a "secure" driver's license.

Be sure to hold up[ your :Real ID" if you ever confront a terrorist, that will protect you.

Real ID
Will not stop Hackers
Will not stop Corrupt DMV Employees
Will not stop Terrorism if A terrorist is set on doing their deed.
Will not Stop Illegal Aliens from driving, banking or using social services.

Will help Identity thieves,
Will help the government track law abiding Americans
Will allow DHS t o add whatever other information they deem is needed.
Will prevent law abiding Americans who refuse to from voting, banking, buying cold medicine, prevent them from speaking to their elected representatives in their federal offices, employment and taking care of their families.

National ID Card Schemes - A Quick Recap: www.thenewamerican.com/node/7874

Originally Posted by POTUS

National ID Card Schemes - A Quick Recap: www.thenewamerican.com/node/7874

FYI there's already a central database and it's National. Do you think the Read ID was going to bring this about? It already in use.

I have no problem with having a bio-ID or an ID with a RFID chip and welcome it. The only ones that should have a problem with this iare the illegals.

Once_A_Democrat wrote:

I have no problem with having a bio-ID or an ID with a RFID chip and welcome it.

Real ID does not require RFID technology and the only biometric information required is a digital photograph and signature.

JP wrote:

Be sure to hold up[ your :Real ID" if you ever confront a terrorist, that will protect you.

Real ID
Will not stop Hackers
Will not stop Corrupt DMV Employees
Will not stop Terrorism if A terrorist is set on doing their deed.
Will not Stop Illegal Aliens from driving, banking or using social services.

Will help Identity thieves,
Will help the government track law abiding Americans
Will allow DHS t o add whatever other information they deem is needed.
Will prevent law abiding Americans who refuse to from voting, banking, buying cold medicine, prevent them from speaking to their elected representatives in their federal offices, employment and taking care of their families.

What I'm seeing here is a lot of rhetoric with little real susbstance. Let's look at each of your claims individually, shall we.

"Will not stop Hackers" - Maybe not, however, the security requirements will make it much tougher. Does our current system through the DMV stop hackers? Remember, this will still be a state database maintained by the individual states. Sure, other states can link to the database but it will still be maintained by the states. The federal government requires more security but they will not maintain the databases, that will be the job of the states. I don't see how this is any different than what we have now. For example, if you were to get pulled over by the NC Highway Patrol they could still run a national check on you if the situation warranted.


"Will not stop corrupt DMV Employees" - How could you possibly know that without knowing what specific security requirements are being utilized by the state? Whatever the case, it will make it more difficult than it already is because Real ID requires enhanced security at the DMV.

"Will not stop Terrorism if A terrorist is set on doing their deed." - Maybe not but it sure will make it tougher for them to do the so-called "deed." Anyone that is naive enough to believe the terrorist threat can be reduced to zero is not playing with a full deck.

"Will not Stop Illegal Aliens from driving, banking or using social services." - Illegal aliens will not be able to obtain a secure driver's license under the Real ID Act. If they bank or utilize social services it won't be with a secure driver's license or secure identification card.

"Will help Identity thieves" - Boy, I'd love to hear your explanation on this one. Exactly how is Real ID going to help identify thieves.

"Will help the government track law abiding Americans" - How will a secure driver's license do that? Remember, RFID technology is not a requirement of the Real ID Act. Furthermore, the state DMV will maintain the database, just as they do now, not the federal government.

"Will allow DHS to add whatever other information they deem is needed." - We're in a situation where we need to worry more about the current threats we're facing now. There will be time tomorrow to worry about what may or may not happen 5, 10, or 15 years from now. Unless you're in possession of a crystal ball, there is no way you could know what the future holds.

"Will prevent law abiding Americans who refuse to from voting, banking, buying cold medicine, prevent them from speaking to their elected representatives in their federal offices, employment and taking care of their families." - Other than the part about preventing folks without Real ID to enter federal building, the rest is all bogus and you know it. How is a secure identification card going to prevent you from voting, banking, buying cold medicine, gaining employment, and taking care of your family?

Originally Posted by POTUS

National ID Card Schemes - A Quick Recap: www.thenewamerican.com/node/7874

Potus anotheh great article.

POTUS wrote:

National ID Card Schemes - A Quick Recap: www.thenewamerican.com/node/7874

Hmmm.........interesting. Can we assume the SAVE Act is also on the list of things you don't support. IMHO, no other pro-legal immigration organization the size of NumbersUSA has done more to fight illegal immigration and open borders. I find it very disheartening that you would support an article that bashes them and the SAVE Act.

Am I starting to see a pattern here.

It is so funny to watch MW ask questions which I have already answered. More Red Herrings from MW. Good for him.



For those of you who want the REAL Facts on the Real ID, feel free to visit:

North Carolinians Against Real ID
www.ncard.info

The National Veterans Committee on Constitutional Affairs
www.NVCCA.net

The North Carolina Freedom Fellowship
www.nc.thefreedomfellowship.net

Legislators Against Real ID (L.A.R.I.)
www.legislatorsagainstrealid.com

Real Nightmare
www.realnightmare.org

No National ID
www.nonationalid.com

John Birch Society
www.jbs.org

jp wrote:

It is so funny to watch MW ask questions which I have already answered.

Responding to a question with a unfounded hypothesis, hyperbole, opinion, prediction, ect. does not consitute a factual answer. Intentionally or not, you've avoided the biggest majority of my questions. Furthermore, you've failed to respond to the majority of the facts I've posted too. Based on my observation it would appear as if most of your comments in opposition to Real ID are based on what could be, not what actually is. I mean come on, where do you come up with such stuff as: can't buy medicine for your children, can't work, can't take care of family, etc.? Anyone that has done half their homework knows that a secure driver's license won't stop you from participating in society and living the American dream. As Dr. Phil would say............."let's get real."

By the way, nice fish photograph. Did you make a trip to the coast this past weekend on a little fishing expedition?