Thread: War on the Senate

Tim, I'm not sure we should offer a compromise at all. 87% of the American people want no amnesty. They already upped the number of visa lottery recipients to 350,000 and that ought to be more than enough workers.

Please correct me if I am wrong but can't the Congress over-ride the President's veto if he is foolish enough to veto this bill if it goes to him minus a guest worker amendment?

I say stick the no anchor baby amendment back on and tell him to bite our butts!

And from now until that bill comes up on the Senate floor, we need to write our people every single day and remind them that they will be looking for a new job come election time if they don't pass 4437 either exactly as it is now or with the anchor baby amendment added back in.

We also have to start finding names of candidates to threaten them with.

Before you can get rid of Bush/Cheney, you need 67 Senators to vote for impeachment. It would be easier to get 67 Senators to vote for HR 4437 only without any guest worker program. But right now, only 7 Senators might vote for HR 4437 without guest workers. How are you going to change the minds of 60 other Senators? Especially when the globalists who want open borders give them millions for their campaigns?

Impeachment starts in the United States House of Representatives. First, you Impeach him. Then it's the US Senate's responsibility to remove him from office.

The only reason we need HB 4437 is because we have a President that isn't enforcing US Immigration Law. We already have all the laws we need to deport aliens and secure our borders. Ample laws to shut this foreign tirade down immediately.

The effort on immigration in the House of Representatives is a response to the President's failure to enforce our laws. If we have a new President committed to enforcing our laws, we don't need HB 4437.

So, if I were in the House of Representatives, I'd now be writing an Impeachment Bill for both Bush and Cheney and explaining to my colleagues that, you know, if this Wackident had been doing his job as he swore to do, WE wouldn't have to be spending our time on legislation concerning immigration. So, as an alternative to what might happen in the United States Senate Hall of Traitors, lets focus the nation's attention on the root cause of the problem which is GWB and Cheney. If we get them out of the White House, then Hastert will move to President, we'll give him emergency funding to get TROOPS ON THE BORDERS and we'll solve this problem in less than 3 days.

THAT's what I'd do if I were a member of the House of Representatives.

Now the US Senate has a dilemma, doesn't it? Do they ride with the President and his Guest Worker Program, the only reason they are supporting it, or do they "distance" while the House is on television every day making speeches and revealing facts about this President in an Impeachment Hearing that will demonstrate that he is nothing but a High Treason Traitor and needs to be EJECTED.

Over 90% of the American People want these borders sealed and these aliens deported. As soon as all 90% realize that this whole problem is not a "broken borders" problem, it's an Open Borders Policy of this President; it's not that we need "immigration reform", it's that we need a President who will enforce our laws; it's not a "racist" issue, it's a legal issue....standing square on the shoulders of the President who has sole responsibility for enforcing our laws and ensuring that this is a law-abiding nation for our own self-rule; self-determination; sovereignty; security and protection.

There has been alot of confusion over the "root of the problem". The root is very simple. The "root" is in the White House and that root needs to be pulled and burned...just like a bad weed in a garden.

Pulled - Impeachment

Burned - Removal

EJECT these people. Two people, Bush and Cheney are manipulating the United States into a Third World Non-Nation of a World Entity ruled by the World Trade Organization and the United Nations.

Sure they have helpers. They are in the House, the Senate and the Court System and State Capitals and City Governments. But, they are now exposed. They will run or suffer the consequences of that...which I assure will not be pretty.

The only thing America hates worse than a Terrorist is a Traitor. If they vote to allow Traitors to remain in the White House to complete the dismantling of the United States, then they too are Traitors and violated their Oaths of Office as America and the World WATCH!

In otherwords a vote to keep a Traitor in the White House is by itself an act of Treason against the people of the United States.

There is no other way to look at it.

They'll all be pulling out "sealed notes" on this one and running to their little machines to vote "YES" to remove this pair of maniacs from the White House.



Just get the Impeachment Resolution written in the House and get it on the House Agenda. The POWER of 250,000,000 PISSED OFF AMERICANS will take it from there.

I assure you.

The Beauty of a Bush Impeachment is that there's something for everyone. The lying about the War in Iraq; failing to protect US on 9/11; introducing, lobbying through Congress, and signing into law 38 Treason Treaties called Free Trade Agreements that dismantle our sovereignty; deliberately failing to enforce US Immigration Law; deliberately failing to secure our borders and our sovereign territory; Spying on American Citizens; approving Torture of detainees; pushing the Patriot Act through the US Congress on the wings of 9/11; pursuing commerce and trade agendas that suck good jobs out of the United States while at the same ensure a flood of poor people entering and competing for the remaining jobs which is clear unadulterated illegal market manipulation of our US Labor Market in violation of our US Labor Laws; promoting undocumented illegal immigrants at the expense of American Citizens in violation of US Immigration, US Labor and US Civil Rights Laws creating unfair competition and institutionalized race discrimination against Black Americans by white illegal immigrants who by their culture as Latinos and Mexicans are racist towards Blacks as evidenced by the conditions in their countries of origins, etc., etc., etc.

The list is endless. Here, with this Beast, called Bush and Cheney, there is something for everyone. Therefore, the votes should be almost unanimous in both Houses of the United States Congress for the Impeachment and Removal from Office of George W Bush and Dick Cheney. There is absolutely no argument anyone can make in their favor. I mean, what would it be? Just draw the bill and get it on the People's Agenda.

The problem hasn't been our System, or Laws, our Borders. The problem is very simple. We have two Traitors running the Executive Branch of the United States Government which is why our forefathers provided Impeachment and Removal from Office authority for the people of the United States through the United States Congress to eject such people upon such a discovery.

The situation in the United States today is the reason we have Impeachment. While covering up for illegal wire-taps to spy on the competition in an election campaign is also Impeachable; and while having cigar sex with interns in the snack room off the Oval Office is also Impeachable....neither of these were the original intent of Impeachment. The original intent of Impeachment was to protect the nation not punish the President for behavior some find offensive.

The sole purpose of Impeachment is to protect the nation from the dangers of a President working in contradiction with the best interest of the nation and the American People as defined by our law. And such contradictory actions are Treason. Deliberately refusing to do his job in an area that directly impacts the security of the American People; the national security of the United States; the sovereignty of our nation is Treason. To pursue agendas that dismantle the United States is Treason. To pursue actions that violate our constitution like spying and torture is Treason. These actions and agendas are the Highest Possible Treason anyone could ever possibly imagine.

This President needed to be impeached at least 8 months ago.

A great deal of damage has occurred during the past 8 months and more damage occurs every single day the man continues in office.

Delaying the inevitable only allows the harm to magnify.

Who amongst US would wish that?

Only another Traitor.

It's Show-Time Congress.

Show US your stuff Congress, or we'll show you Ours.

Originally Posted by JuniusJnr

Tim, I'm not sure we should offer a compromise at all. 87% of the American people want no amnesty. They already upped the number of visa lottery recipients to 350,000 and that ought to be more than enough workers.

I am not saying offer a compromise, I said accept a compromise if that's the only way to get enforcement. And not an amnesty compromise, but only for legal guest workers who apply from outside the US, illegal aliens could not apply. Specter tried to up employment visas from 140,000 to 350,000, but the House killed that. The House also eliminated the 55,000 diversity visas as part of HR 4437. So at this point there would be a reduction in legal immigrants.

Please correct me if I am wrong but can't the Congress over-ride the President's veto if he is foolish enough to veto this bill if it goes to him minus a guest worker amendment?

Yes, but it takes 2/3rds of the House and Senate to do this. Right now you don't even have the votes in the House to do this.

And from now until that bill comes up on the Senate floor, we need to write our people every single day and remind them that they will be looking for a new job come election time if they don't pass 4437 either exactly as it is now or with the anchor baby amendment added back in.

We also have to start finding names of candidates to threaten them with.

In the House this worked since they are all up for re-election next year. Unfortunately for the Senate it is only 1/3rd up for re-election. So we can eventually threaten all the Senators but it will take 5 years to do so. Are you willing to wait that long to get 4437 and the anchor baby amendment passed?

The problem here is politicians respond to two things, votes and money. Right now there are literally billions of dollars invested in the status quo. The elite are willing to spend enormous amounts of money to lobby politicians, and contribute to sympathetic ones. They can and have controlled both parties to only allow illegal sympathetic candidates. They also pay the media to influence brain-dead Americans to not oppose these policies. The people financing all this control trillions of dollars. They have invested heavily to cover all the bases and quite frankly, take our freedom and democracy away.

The only reason 4437 passed was because of Jim Gilchrist and the Minutemen. "Armed volunteer citizens" shook them up. Then Jim ran for Congress as a third party and won on election day. But to get everything we want without comprimise now, would take 10 times as many Minutemen and Jim type candidates. Right now we don't have that.

So basically it comes down to are we willing to accept 90% of what we want now, and keep working to get the other 10%?

Or do we wait a few years until we can get 100% of what we want?

Maybe the impeachment hammer is a good tool to employ.

If Bush continues to demand a guest worker amnesty, then Tancredo's caucus can say we will join with the Democrats and impeach you. That could get him to back off.

So are you saying instead of concentrating on the Senate, we should concentrate on the House, demanding impeachment if the Senate passes a guest worker amnesty per White House request?

If Bush continues to demand a guest worker amnesty, then Tancredo's caucus can say we will join with the Democrats and impeach you. That could get him to back off.

So are you saying instead of concentrating on the Senate, we should concentrate on the House, demanding impeachment if the Senate passes a guest worker amnesty per White House request?

Okay...Tancredo's group needs to join forces with the Democrats and anyone else willing to Impeach this President because even if 4437 passes, Bush has already said he will veto it without a Guest Worker Program.

It is better to have nothing than a bill with Guest Worker Program because that legalizes the problem. That legalizes 50,000,000 illegal aliens in the United States already and does nothing to stop the flow of new ones. Nothing.

The Guest Worker Program cancels everything in 4437. See? 4437 has no point at all with a Bush Guest Worker Program attached to it. Everyone here gets to stay; anyone new who wants to come can do so. It legalizes everything that 4437 is designed to enforce against. Do you see why there can be no compromise?

We want the numbers to stop; the flow to stop; the ones here to leave; we want our country back; our demographics back; our elections back; our jobs back....we want everything back they have taken by being here. In order for that to happen, they have to a) stop coming in and b) the ones here have to leave. Guest Worker destroys all that.

We are better off with no legislation and the problem mounting politically than to have a 4437 with a guest worker program they all can crow about that did the opposite of what the people wanted.

See? It's their consistent game of Ironies and Opposites.

1. US population is already too large, so why would anyone believe we needed more people through a Guest Worker Program? See? Guest Worker is the OPPOSITE of what you do when you have too many people in the country.

2. Communities can't afford the school systems for all the people here now. These illegals need to leave so we can get our schools back on track. Guest worker destroys that because all the people get to stay so the schools stay a mess.

3. Communities can't afford in many areas to keep their hospitals open so they are closing and Americans are losing their medicail facilities. Guest Worker destroys any correction to that. The illegals are now legal still go the hospital because they are still here; still don't pay; hospitals close.

There is no benefit to the American People of HB 4437 with a Guest Worker Program attached to it. It's a deal breaker because it destroys the entire purpose of the bill which is to stop the flow and get illegals out of here.

Also HB 4437 will never pass with a fence and a guest worker program. All these people have to get in somehow, see? We won't even get the fence out of 4437 with a Guest Worker Program attached to it.

NO COMPROMISE.

We want Bush out so we can get someone in who will enforce the law, existing law or 4437. Bush won't enforce it...not one word of it. Bush has to go.. now... to accomplish anything with regards to illegal imigration. He will not lift one finger of enforcement of any kind. He is committed to Open Borders and there is no changing him; there is no forcing him; we can't force him to enforce the laws. All we can do is remove him from office.

That is our only power over a second term President committed to ending the United States before the end of his term in office.

When I used to negotiate extremely complex corporate business contracts....there would be this mess of people all armed with their clipboards with their list of "deal breakers"; their list of demands; their list of provisions and terms; all these people were attorneys, except me.

I was asked to join this team by the General Counsel of the Corporation and I asked "why", I'm not a lawyer. He said because you understand the intent of the deals and the outcome desired by all parties...better than anyone I've ever known. I said, OK. Fine. I would have to unravel a mess to get these deals done. So they put me on the team from the outset to avoid the mess to begin with.

They were very complex and the issues involved were complex but the people who were attorneys didn't understand the root of their own demands or things on their list which would cause the whole process to tangent, side-track, stall, delay, turn mean, get ugly, and everyone go home a total huff.

The objective of everyone working on illegal immigration is to stop the flow; deport illegals here now; and prevent their re-enty. That's the objective. Very simple. A Guest Worker Program defeats all three of those objectives. It's non-negotiable. Either 4437 goes through as written or it dies. Period. No Comproise.

Now, let's say 4437 goes through all the way and passes both houses as written. What happens? President vetoes it and it dies or goes back to Congress for a Veto Over-ride.

Now, let's say 4437 goes through all the way and passes both houses with the number of votes 2/3 needed to over-ride the President's Veto. What happens? President refuses to enforce 4437 just as he is refusing to enforce our existing laws. So what was accomplished? Nothing.

You have to get to the root of the problem which is the White House and Impeach Bush and Cheney in order to do anything that will stop the flow; deport illegals here now; and prevent their re-entry.

They will sabotage any program; refuse to do their duty; refuse to prosecute; refuse to round up and deport; refuse to build the fence; refuse; refuse; refuse. Just like he's been refusing for the past 5 years.

We are almost out of time, so what we do must be meaningful in stopping the flow. The President is the only one who can do that. He can do it now. He can do it with 4437. He can do it as a national crisis/emergency tomorrow. But he hasn't and he won't.

In my opinion, it is better to have nothing than to have something that doesn't stop the flow immediately. To stop the flow, we must have a new President that will do this, because Bush and Cheney neither one will do it under any circumstance. It's counter to the objective of Globalization which requires absolutely the termination of the United States as a sovereign independent nation which is why all the Free Trade Agreements transfer power over our daily lives to the World Trade Organization. They need the foreign nationals in the US to support the FTAs due to the Open Borders component: "free flow of people, labor and goods into the United States"... it's part of the agreement, all 38 of them with more planned during his remaining term in office to achieve this world-wide.

To understand this dilemma you have to understand why we have it to begin with. It's not really our corporations. They are just taking advantage of a labor pool, because a few did, and in our market when one does, then to compete you have to or at least that's how alot of them look at it. When no one is prosecuting, all of Congress understands their "situation", the President says "hey, no problemo." the problem just surges.

But Congress knew this would happen. The President knew this would happen. They intended for it to happen. It is their goal of globalism. It's not about "immigrants" who they could care less about; it's not about "wages" since they don't give a hoot about that either. It's about flooding the United States with population we can not sustain to break US; infiltrate US; surround US; overwhelm US; to defeat US and implement World Government which when a handful of multi-national corporations control the entire world market.

We have to get a President immediately in the White House who is not a Globalist Freak.

Then, everything will start falling into place.

You've got the Momentum. It's now or never.

We have to go all the way with 4437 as written and an Impeachment proceeding at the same time. The Immigration Caucus led by Tancredo is the one to do it. They need to get with Hastert immediately and ask him are you ready and willing to become President of the United States, will you execute our laws to the letter on immigration and send troops to the borders to stop this flow. If Hastert say yes I will do that for the American People, then move immediately to Impeach Bush and Cheney and swear Hastert in as soon as the Senate confirms to remove.

It's really that simple.

And I believe at the end of the day, the US Senate will remove Bush and Cheney from Office for a variety of reasons, immigration, war, spying, lying, national debt, economy, wages, outsourcing, over-crowded schools, closed medical facilities, income gap, rising poverty, rising number of uninsured, outing the CIA Agent, torture, rising interest rates, rising trade deficit, World Trade Organization maneuvers, FTA's, threats to sovereignty, in other words, THE BUSH CHENEY AGENDA to end the United States.

Who could not find amongst all these a reason to Confirm Removal of This Pair of Traitors From Our Government?

Lets go all the way. It's now or never.

And I believe the Media is hungry and now is a good time for Impeachment.

Footnote--US Senate passed CAFTA 54-45 which was my litmus test for the Senate. But, that's only 9 votes. Most of these Senators approved CAFTA for the President. Remove the President and I doubt seriously if the Senate would have approved all those Free Trade Agreements. It is the INFLUENCE of this President over the Congress that has made it so easy for Bush to sail this crap through.

Can we turn them on 4437 and Impeachment of this President? I believe so.

Also, the Impeachment process will educate the entire country and the world about what's afoot.

Impeachment is "hard work" but it's "good for America".

It's our System's means to correct the very problem we're struggling with.

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with your assessment about WHY those FOOLS voted FOR CAFTA. AND, in light of all of the NEW REVELATIONS about this WHITE HOUSE, if that vote had been held THIS WEEK, it would NOT HAVE PASSED. FINALLY, some Republicans are seeing through this White House. I have utmost respect for Sununu and Snowe for drawing the line about the renewal of the Patriot Act. They are NOT going to be BULLIED and I hope they don't buckle.

In the House this worked since they are all up for re-election next year. Unfortunately for the Senate it is only 1/3rd up for re-election. So we can eventually threaten all the Senators but it will take 5 years to do so. Are you willing to wait that long to get 4437 and the anchor baby amendment passed?

I'm not willing to wait five minutes for these things that should have been done the day before yesterday. And the bill will come up on the Senate floor in January, meaning we don't have a lot of time to play around. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop writing to my senators every single day to remind them that there are voters out here who are watching them. I'm sure that they can see five years down the road just as well as I can. I'd like to still be living in a strong nation, not a third world nation!

I had correspondence from Hutchison last spring telling me all about why CAFTA was such a good thing. I wish I could find that doggone letter! I have disliked her vehemently ever since then. Cornyn is a little weasel who probably won't be around next election time so I disregard him entirely.

I don't think CAFTA had that much to do with the President because this trade agreement fiasco started with the WTO. Bush doesn't have the smarts to carry off such a fete.

Since OTHER people in other countries are against these agreements, yet they keep getting passed one after the other, it can only be some globalist agenda that pushes it along. I don't think the President has enough influence left to lead the entire Senate around by the nose, personally. Therefore, those old duffers must have their own globalization agenda dancing like sugarplums in their heads.

So how are we going to stop them from giving our country away?

As for Tom Tancredo turning Democrat, saints preserve us!

Junius--agree with everything you said except...Bush is the one behind CAFTA. He does have the smarts to pull off such a fete. He has already done it. CAFTA passed the House of Representatives solely because he, the President of the United States, was roaming the halls outside the People's House using his infuence, threats, bribes, violating the rules of voting, manipulating, conducting in a phrase "Presidential Terror Against Our Congressman".

Bush is brilliant and not at all the mental boob he pretends to be. He has almost done it, he has almost dismantled the United States before our very eyes, under our very noses, but at the same time behind our backs using a strategy of Ironies and Opposites.

The irony of Bush is that most people think he could not do this even if he wanted to because he's too stupid. He isn't stupid. And he has done it. He is the opposite of what you think. That is one of the Ironies of this Presidency. He's cold and calculating. A better liar than Clinton. A better actor than Reagan. And totally committed to dismantling the United States. He can even make himself draw a tear at the microphone and choke up on his own lying ass bull shit.

The man goes to bed at 9 pm and sleeps like a baby as flood waters drown Americans in New Orleans.

The man sits in a little chair and reads My Pet Goat while thousands of Americans are "evaporated" on 9/11.

The man sits in the Oval Office and threatens our US Congress with a VETO on HB 4437 as millions of foreign nationals pour into our country to rob, rape, murder, pillage, and plunder US and take over our nation.

The man is insane, brilliant and as cold as a Witches Teat in a Brass Bra.

While spewing patriotic bull about spreading freedom and democracy abroad, he's working every minute of every day to kill it at home so he can then kill it world-wide.

"You can not defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Ed Murrow.

It was true then, it is true now, it will always be true.

See Bush for who he really is by judging him on what he does, not how he appears at a microphone.

Wake Up America.

CAFTA passed the House of Representatives solely because he, the President of the United States, was roaming the halls outside the People's House using his infuence, threats, bribes, violating the rules of voting, manipulating, conducting in a phrase "Presidential Terror Against Our Congressman".

AND, don't forget--GIVING THE ONES WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR CAFTA THE FINGER.

But, I still disagree about Bush's intelligence. I just don't think he's right bright. I think his brain resides in Karl Rove's and Cheniac's heads. I don't think I will ever be convinced otherwise so this is just the one thing that I can say we will just have to agree to disagree on, Judy!