Thread: We must find a way to make peace between two groups....

Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think you've completely missed my point and furthermore to that, it is another waste of time complaining about the obvious without sweating for solutions. I would suggest less time with the prognosis and more time for solutions. Which is again my point. Waiting around for a good president is wasting time and resources and might even be surrendering to a strategy posed by the opposition. The presidency is not all there is to making things work here in the US.

You cannot generate "momentum" if the people do not see any progress being made at the federal level. This "momentum" has existed for over a decade, but it never grows to critical mass, because like I said, people need to see that their actions actually affect change. You need Congress and the President to acknowledge the momentum and we have yet to see any recognition except when we get on the defense on federal amnesty. Then it's a couple of years of silence until another form of amnesty comes along.

Perhaps I have zero creativity or imagination, but exactly can we do without the Presidency, Congress, or Supreme Court? We need the first two in order to pass federal laws and to thus to fuel the momentum.

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think you've completely missed my point and furthermore to that, it is another waste of time complaining about the obvious without sweating for solutions. I would suggest less time with the prognosis and more time for solutions. Which is again my point. Waiting around for a good president is wasting time and resources and might even be surrendering to a strategy posed by the opposition. The presidency is not all there is to making things work here in the US.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

The only thing we can really do is go and vote, kick them all out, starting from the bottom up and hope it all clicks in, especially vote those on the top out... If they really represent you vote them back in,if they follow the constitution, and adhere to the oath of office they take give them another shot you know the drill. Let them all know you will not go along with any of their stupid laws they think they can put on us and give them a fight at every turn on everything they try and do. Heck especially if it goes against our rights and freedoms stop being cattle, sheeple or what ever you call it. Let them know enough is enough. Remember these people work for us not the other way around and we are not their slaves for goodness sake...Everyone needs to wake up.

Originally Posted by googler

You cannot generate "momentum" if the people do not see any progress being made at the federal level. This "momentum" has existed for over a decade, but it never grows to critical mass, because like I said, people need to see that their actions actually affect change. You need Congress and the President to acknowledge the momentum and we have yet to see any recognition except when we get on the defense on federal amnesty. Then it's a couple of years of silence until another form of amnesty comes along.

Perhaps I have zero creativity or imagination, but exactly can we do without the Presidency, Congress, or Supreme Court? We need the first two in order to pass federal laws and to thus to fuel the momentum.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

Both are true. But neither contradict my thinking. Again,

Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think the best strategy is to ignore the presidential election as a hope for confronting illegal immigration. We should plan for a new president assuming they are not going to do anything about it and continue our focus on what we are doing now and will continue to do to drive out illegal immigrants without compromise or surrender. We should not pause anticipating what is going to happen in November. By waiting for these events, like the Supreme Court decision, we can be manipulated to slow down struggles in the states and local communities against illegal immigrants. Instead, the momentum we generate should be great enough to render impotent anything the Obamination hopes to accomplish if he wins a second term and great enough to intimidate Romney into falling into line if he wins a first.

We should be ready for anything and working now without pause or distraction for throwing out illegal immigrants now, not when some ideal setting has been accomplished. Every day, every week, every month we are not laboring to do this is time wasted.

Why do we have to see progress being made at the federal level? We already have the laws. It is more work to undermine the laws then it is to enforce them. They aren't going to make laws decriminalizing illegal immigrants. The best hope they have is amnesty and amnesty is an admission of guilt. We already had an amnesty and it was the super-duper arch-conservative Ronald Reagan that gave it to them. The best they can hope for is to be subversive which does a lot of damage, but none of it permanent.

The integrity of our citizenship is at stake and if you will not stand for that first where you are now, irregardless of who is in the White House, then your vote isn't worth anything anyway.

What I've heard Romney say is that he is not for discussing any kind of amnesty until and after the border is secured first. Both parties want the hispanic vote and so the hedging. I do hope that marco rubio does NOT make VP yet we do need something that will pulling the hispanics vote ( legal hispanic vote ) many of them also do NOT want illegals here.

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

Originally Posted by bamissfa

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

Doesn't matter how assimilated they are, the point is they're here illegally, PERIOD. There is a waiting line to get into this country legally and everyone must abide by the rules. Romney wants to give a pass to those who want to join the military, you can call it what you want, but that's AMNESTY. He's a traitor to this country for even suggesting such an idea. But alas, if we cannot get a viable third candidate (time is running out and America is not taking action to make this happen) the best we can hope for is for a tie between Obama and Romney to throw everything into a tail spin. This country is doomed no matter who wins unfortunately.

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

Originally Posted by googler

....

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

That's an excellent point. If he is not afraid of offending illegals as a voting block, then he must be afraid of offending people who defend the right of people to come here illegally. And who are those people and why can't we shame them into removing themselves from the debate?

I don't think it is possible for illegals to join the military. I'd like a confirmation that Romney has actually said this before I believe it. See also this thread here:

http://www.alipac.us/f12/clearing-ai...action-260340/

Save the doom and gloom. It's time to buck up and get the job done. We work with what we've got. All the whining in the world about how bad Romney is doesn't help to solve the problem at hand. One can either choose to sit back and say it's all lost or they can make up their mind that they won't EVER give up the fight. We need to learn from the greatest generation who enlisted by the millions to fight against the Axis powers who by all accounts of the time were unstoppable. Our parents/grandparents didn't give up or give in and neither should we. We OWE them that much.

Originally Posted by googler

Doesn't matter how assimilated they are, the point is they're here illegally, PERIOD. There is a waiting line to get into this country legally and everyone must abide by the rules. Romney wants to give a pass to those who want to join the military, you can call it what you want, but that's AMNESTY. He's a traitor to this country for even suggesting such an idea. But alas, if we cannot get a viable third candidate (time is running out and America is not taking action to make this happen) the best we can hope for is for a tie between Obama and Romney to throw everything into a tail spin. This country is doomed no matter who wins unfortunately.

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

Originally Posted by bamissfa

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

Right now a lot of American citizens are joining the military to be able to have a hope for the future, to feed their families, and to live and survive this horrific economic time. Now, illegal aliens will be in those military slots and will soon return to to a neighborhood near you with guns, training, voting rights, and a chip on their shoulders a mile wide.

US Military trained illegal aliens.... oh we already have those. They are called Los Zetas.

Anyone that accepts Romney's military service for amnesty plan is sealing the fate of America. If enough conservatives are desperate enough to support that plan thinking it is an answer to Obama, then the poison will go down and while the effects will not be immediate, the damage will be done and irreversible.

Dump that cool aid on the ground and step back from it for the sake of us all please.

The military service language is just the "Sell it to republicans" pitch. We all know that they will use that limited amnesty to go for the full amnesty.

Our backs are already against a wall, we cannot afford to give anymore. There is nothing left to give we are teetering on the edge of national oblivion already.

W