Thread: Bush most liberal of U.S. presidents

No, I really don't like the guy either. I didn't like Clinton, in fact I hated him. Bush 41? Well, I was more interested in being 15-19, girls, learning the guitar, you get the picture. Reagan was cool because I grew up in a town that was #5 on Russia's "hit list". But I was still a just a kid.

I am sorry to say that I was one of the people who voted for him and convinced others NOT to vote for Kerry, who I didn't just start despising in 2004 but closer to 1974 when he publically called the Viet Nam vets -- my brother, several cousins, and 2/3 of the guys I went to school with -- baby killers and murderers.

Kerry disgusts me on so many levels. [mod edit] I knew that he was on good terms with Hanoi Jane, but I never knew that he actually came out publically and did that. But still, the reason I voted for Bush last year by absentee ballot was only because of a dreadful alternative and because I would never in HELL vote for a Masshole Flatlander.

My dad got pigs' blood thrown on him when he got off the plane from 'Nam, hence my eternal hatred of the left. Now they just "ask questions" and "support the troops, but not the war". Kinda like that dumb Sheehan broad that everybody has forgotten about who will be arrested for tax evasion next year.

I do feel that G.W. Bush did this partially out of love for his daddy and to right his father's legacy. However, the reason why we (and I was there) didn't go into Baghdad in 1991 was because it was essentially a U.N. mission and they wouldn't give the thumbs up. We had them surrounded in Baghdad! I froze my a$$ off in Nasiriya in '91 as a 19 year old in a tank, just waiting for the go-ahead. Neva happened! We all know why now: China, Russia, and France had made deals with Saddam in order to save his regime.

I do take issue with the war being called a "quagmire" and that Saddam didn't have anything to do with terrorism. But if somebody doesn't agree with me after I've posted evidence supporting myself and they can't come back with anything but speculation, generalizations, media-perpetuated crap and snide remarks then I win.

Hmmm, I missed some comments somehow from Bootsie and Judy.

I believe that one of the President's speeches pointed out that Mohammed Ataf had trained in Iraq at one of those schools. Still, he could have been trained by a fanatic in any country in the Middle East, and the practice goes on today.

The first thing anyone should have done was to bomb those damn madrassas, kids and all. I know that sounds cruel but the Islamic fundamentalists who poison the minds of children to convince them to strap a bomb on and walk into a crowd just to kill people to to to Islamic heaven need to be obliterated. Bombing them and prohibiting any country who claims to be our ally from letting them continue to exist within their borders would be the first step toward peace on earth if you ask me.

Surely no one believes that the 19 who took out the twin towers were rational people in control of their own mind, do they? Well, pockets of those extremists, trained in those little schools all over the middle east by maniacs exist in every country where there is a Moslem population. I don't see what would make Iraq, with the high percentage of Shi'ites any exception

Now as to whether the "fact" that was gleaned from whatever sources that Mohammed Ataf was trained in Iraq is true or false makes little difference to me. I suspect it is false because of the circumstances under which it was presented, as are the "terror alerts" that surface every time the President wants to bolster the fear level in this country to get his covert missions accomplished.

It was mentioned that more soldiers were killed in Korea and VietNam than in Iraq. No doubt. The weapons we have devised since then were developed specifically to wage war on infrastructures as opposed to people.

No war is popular and no war is humane. But this one, possibly waged for no reason, has gone on long enough.

No, the first thing that we should have done is bombed that damned al-Jazeera.

I do take issue with the war being called a "quagmire" and that Saddam didn't have anything to do with terrorism. But if somebody doesn't agree with me after I've posted evidence supporting myself and they can't come back with anything but speculation, generalizations, media-perpetuated crap and snide remarks then I win.

Oh, I believe that Saddam was and still has the potential to be a terrorist. I'm waiting for them to let him escape so they can justify starting the hunt all over again! I'd have personally begged to pin the medal on the soldiers who found him if they had shot him in the rat hole they found him in and just covered him up like so much cat crap.

I was sitting in Saudi Arabia and Egypt reading the newspapers when Saddam was quoted has having said that he would bankrupt the American government amking them look for weapons, that he would bring America to her knees by picking off one soldier at a time, and that he would send out people all over the world to wage terrorist attacks against America, etc. As to whether those taunts had any bearing on Cowboy Bush and his personal vendetta or not, I couldn't tell you. I don't know if anyone in our government bothers to feel the pulse of the rest of the world or not--mostly I think not--unless it works into someone's personal agenda or a boondoggle to a foreign land at taxpayer's expense for some politician.

And those weren't US papers--those were his own Moslem brethern writing that. And the English speaking papers were a lot less hateful than the papers written in Arabic that I couldn't read. I watched Al Jazeera BEFORE most people in this country ever even heard of it. I've spent two different stints as an American citizen living in Saudi and a stint in Egypt in between since 1989. As a dependent, I didn't have anything to do BUT listen and read and pay attention to what was being done and said about America, Americans, and their relationship to the rest of the world.

I left the Mid East for the last time in 2001 with the feeling that those people get more and more dangerous as time progresses. But it is BECAUSE of those fundamentalists who get their hands on more and more of those kids and warp their minds from the day they are born. It is because of the five percent of the people who control 95% of the money and how they treat the people who have nothing. Our own nation is headed in that same direction if we don't start minding our own business instead of worrying about them and their human rights or lack thereof.

While in their countries, threatened daily by terrorist individuals and organizations, it was normal to check our car for bombs, live in buildings and on compounds that were guarded to prevent terrorist attacks. We had mylar on our windows to keep people from throwing a bomb through.

But 9-11 still came as an absolute shock to me. It was the day I learned that our government, with all the mouthing off, does absolutely nothing to prevent this type of thing from happening on an even grander scale in my own country--the country I was born and raised in and the country I pledge allegiance to with all my heart and mean it with the deepest sincerity.

As for whether the war is a "quagmire" or not depends upon one's perception of the word. To me, a quagmire is something that one gets into that they can't get out of. Such as quicksand.

I believe we CAN get out of this mess, that our soldiers have served more than honorably, and that we should get out today if not yesterday. On the other hand, the fact that our government feels they CAN'T get out makes it a quagmire. It is all a matter of perception.

No, the first thing that we should have done is bombed that damned al-Jazeera.

I'm not saying it might not have been to our advantage to cause some sort of "accident" to befall Al Jazeera, and at one point that did happen, but to bomb them would have been to wage war on yet another Middle Eastern country, Quatar, sticking yet one more stick into a hornet's nest where we have no business. I don't think so. LOL

Clinton makes me PUKE.

I still say Saddam had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I do say he supported the Hamas suicide bombers' families. But, they haven't done anything to America.

I agree with you, Junius, about Saudi Arabia. I just have NEVER understood why, when 14 or 15 of the hijackers came from there, they are off Scot-free. That would have been a spectacular idea to bomb the madrasses. THAT is the ROOT of ALL of the problems.

I didn't realize you had lived in that part of the world?? Was it just HORRIBLE. Did you wear a Burkha(SP)????

Bush is an idiot and it's time he brought our troops home. Whatever feeble excuse he uses from his "Reasons of the Month", he has lost complete credibility with me. I wouldn't believe the first word that spilled out of his mouth.

I support the War in Iraq and believe that our troops have done a great job confirming that there are no major WMDs in Iraq, removing Saddam from Power, finding him and putting him in Jail, training the Iraqi Police, and securing the country while the new government is being established.

This is a Great Gift of Freedom that the United States has given to the Iraqi People but it did have a cost in terms of lives lost, number of injured, physical destruction, and money....as all wars do.

I also think that we should have prepared to withdraw the majority of our troops soon after the January elections earlier this year, and that we should definitely be making plans to bring our troops home now, with exception to Special Forces to continue to help the Iraqis root out insurgents undercover and in the dark of night, and battalions to build a base if the Iraqis would like for us to have one.

I will never forget the President's surprise trip to Baghdad on Thanksgiving 2 years ago.

I and my family cried with pride.

That's when I was a BushBeliever.

I also believe that the Iraqi People will take the opportunity Americans have given them and build a Free Nation that is strong, happy, and successful. I also believe that Freedom is Contagious and other countries looking at Iraq will say, "wow, that's cool, I want me some of that".

But the Middle East is very different than Europe or Asia. The Middle East has the Religion Factor so deeply imbedded in their culture that Iraq will require time to come to its own Realization that a separation of Church and State is necessary for Freedom to Survive. Because the desire for Freedom is a natural born instinct, the People of Iraq, like all people, will come to that Realization.

It's my personal opinion that this Realization will come sooner and with less disturbances if the Bearer leaves Iraq to the People of Iraq to complete that process Iraqi to Iraqi.

The People of Iraq are very capable, well educated, philosophical, serious, disciplined, and committed. We saw that commitment on Election Day when they walked long distances knowing that at any time, they could be killed, shot by snipers, or blown to bits before they even reached the poll booth. Any several were. Yet they still walked, and voted, and showed the world that Iraq wants to be free and self-govern.

And in years to come as the process works itself through, this generation of Iraqis and the next and the next and the next will remember the United States and call us their Friends.

As in all projects, timing is everything.

If we over-stay our welcome, as I believe we are doing now, they will remember us as the Bearers who wouldn't leave converting our Status from Liberators to Occupiers which can destroy at worst or diminsh at best all that has been accomplished.

When the situation on the ground becomes one where we can not define the enemy and in the process of trying to find that enemy kill civilians and lose more American Troops, it is time to come home.

Iraq is in an internal Law and Order Mode.

This is a civil responsibility for Iraq. It is not for the USA to say which Iraqi is right or which Iraqi is wrong. This is for the People of Iraq to decide and decide alone.

Iraq is not an undeveloped, primitive, backward nation. Iraq is a very sophisticated and capable country. It is time for the People of Iraq to decide the Future of Iraq.

I'm confident that Freedom and Democracy "Iraqi Style" is the certain Future of Iraq.

I'm also confident that it's time for American Troops to be withdrawn from Iraq, but for special units to complete long-term projects such as training and assistance with the "terrorists" or "insurgents" on a low-key, non-visible basis and construction of a base.

To those who believe Iraq is a "quagmire", I understand why you see this. But, the circumstances in Iraq are very different than Viet Nam. In Viet Nam, there was an external enemy that under the rules of engagement, despite the heroic efforts ot hundreds of thousands of Americans, we could not defeat. In Iraq, there is no such enemy. Our work is done. The mission has been accomplished. Victroy is being mired, and the allusion of "quagmire" created by the simple error of over-staying our welcome in Iraq.

We need to declare Victory, turn the gavel over to the Iraqis, bid them Adieu and bring our troops home NOW.

If WE do that now, I predict that within a year, no American will regret the invasion of Iraq in terms of Liberating the Iraqi People from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein.

If WE do not do that now, I predict our nation will be torn apart with unhappiness and discontent.

The FIRST RESPONSIBILITY of the US Government and any elected Leader of the United States is to keep the American People happy and content; to defend and protect US and our Future; to secure OUR borders and OUR way of life for today, tomorrow and Forever.

That FIRST RESPONSIBILITY has been willfully and intentionally neglected and ignored and our own nation thrown to the Wolves in Sheep's Clothing.

That is why I am no longer a BushBeliever.

It's a sad day in America when the sovereignty of the United States rides on the voices, courage, protests, words and dissent of Latin Americans from Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Uraquay, Paraguay and many others who did more last week to save the United States from dissolution than WE have in more than 30 years.

In closing, it's a sadder day than I bear to consider this bright beautiful Sunday that an American President would invade a nation committing thousands of Americans to death, maime and injury because he "loved his Daddy and wanted to save a Legacy" that's already been written....and carved in stone.

I'll end my thoughts with a quote from a great American who happens to be from North Carolina:

"You can not defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."--Edward Murrow.

Now lets get our people home and get to work. We've got some Freedom To Defend right here, right now.

Afterall, "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to do."

And our list of things "left to do" is growing by the minute.

Well said. Maybe quagmire is too strong a term but my feeling about that is that there IS an external force that is coming in and further destablelizing Iraq and that would be the al Qaeda-type terrorists who weren't there before but see a fine opportunity to come in now. It is now a much better training ground for terrorist camps to be set up than Afghanistan and they are, along with the Saddam loyalists, wreaking havoc--not ONLY with our wonderful military but with the Iraqi people.

You have convinced me that getting the troops out will HELP but I still think there is going to be a civil war OR the terrorists will take over the country to try to form a Middle East Radical Muslim state. bin Laden's fatwah included three points for his hatred of the "infidels" and one was that we had a base in Saudi Arabia, "HOLY GROUND" for them. So, in that respect, getting our troops OUT will restore SOME peace. I HOPE and PRAY I'm wrong about the rest!

But, SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 and I think Bush made a HUGE mistake by not leaving a full force of troops in Afghanistan to try to find him, Zawahiri and Mullah Omar. Those were the THREE MAIN masterminds and we have gotten NONE of them. Also, Afghanistan has really fallen apart in the respect that they are now back to producing the largest percentage of the world's poppy crop. We just didn't finish the job there before Bush took us to ANOTHER ARAB country who did NOT have anything to do with who attacked us on 9/11. He should have left the other troops here to defend our own country. IF we had access to the National Guard, I think there would be a good chance that we could convince our government to put them on OUR borders to protect US. WE are WIDE OPEN and it will happen again. As O'Reilly says, they will only wake up when al Qaeda comes in through the southern border and bombs Austin or Houston.

I didn't realize you had lived in that part of the world?? Was it just HORRIBLE. Did you wear a Burkha(SP)???

I spent almost ten years, not all at one time, in the Mid East. Although I never want to go back and my respect for the people in that region diminished the longer I lived among them, I wouldn't trade the experience.

I've never heard those get-ups I came to call Halloween Costumes called Burkas anywhere other than in the US, actually. I guess that came from Iran or Afghanistan via the media. It sure is an ugly word that suits such an ugly garment.

In Saudi Arabia, the get up is called an Habiya and in Egypt they are called Galabeyas. In both countries, most are black but there are other dark colors that are considered acceptable. I had an army green one in Saudi Arabia, where I did wear one. Western women aren't required to cover their heads and few cover their faces. Most westerners, even though you don't actually have to wear that thing at all as long as your arms and legs are covered in loose clothing, do so because not to is to invite trouble. They have these little creeps called "Mutawah" or religious police who go around hitting people with a stick who don't toe the mark according to their standards.

It is customary for Westerners in Egypt to wear loose fitting clothing such as you would wear in the US and keep their legs covered but Moslem men generally make their wives wear a Galabeya. The only women you would ever see on the streets in Egypt in shorts would definitely be tourists who don't know any better. There are no Mutawah in Egypt but the Egyptian women can be quite hateful toward Western women if they take a notion to be.

Judy, I definitely appreciate your sentiment about the way and I love the way you present it. I'm not so sure that all that many killings and maimings took place at all, though. Yes, we see news clips. Do any of them look like the same ones over and over to you? Could it be that one incident is made to appear as if it were more than one?

I ask that because in October, 1992, there was an earthquake in Cairo, Egypt. There are literally thousands of high rise buildings in that city. Some fell down. We had people calling us from the US to check on our well being because they had seen ONE building on CNN from various angles and it was presented as if the entire city had crumbled to the ground. I just have this funny feeling that the people who think it is to their advantage in furtherance of their cause aren't above doctoring up film footage and showing things that happened five or ten years ago by way of proving their point.

And remember all those starving Rawandan Children? Weren't they exactly the same starving Ethiopian children who came before them?

I've come to trust the media just about as much as I trust our president. Actually the mistrust came in reverse order as far as those two go. Both have shown time and time again that they are not worthy of my trust.

But no one will ever convince me that our soldiers haven't done a great job and that they don't need to be and deserve to be brought home in triumph. I just can't see why Bush can't see that our job is done.

But, SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 and I think Bush made a HUGE mistake by not leaving a full force of troops in Afghanistan to try to find him, Zawahiri and Mullah Omar.

LOL We must all be writing at once.

It could well be that Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11. Bin Laden launched his jihad partially on behalf of the Iraqi nation but that didn't make Saddam a perpetrator. And true, the US military bases in Saudi had great bearing on bin Laden's warped sense of justice as well. And that doesn't make Saudi Arabia guilty of anything.

And I think that the general consensus is that, in hindsight, Bush Jr probably invaded Iraq on false pretenses. Looking back, I'm not so sure we should have invaded Afghanistan, either. But we did.

I pesronally think that if Osama bin Laden is even alive his family has him holed up in some palace in Saudi Arabia somewhere. And you can be sure they have guards on him so he can't wreak any havoc from wherever he is. Saudi Arabia locks down entire Shi-ite villages to prevent uprisings. Unfortunately, they might be picking on the wrong people judging by the way their own teen age sons act in public.

I thought we did get a couple of bin Laden's right hand men, though, early on in Afghanistan. And didn't they confirm killing someone just days ago? I could be mistaken on this because I got so tired of listening to all the lies that I stopped paying as much attention as I should to the war.