Thread: FairTax and Trade

Originally Posted by jtdc

That's the problem, they are the only cure!

And they will be in charge of setting rates for any FairTax!

The opportunities, from the manufacturer or importer, through the distribution network to the retailer, for a black market are tremendous. And the profit from such a black market would be an irresistible opportunity. And illegal aliens as well as legal citizens will be looking for bargains. How blind you are!

Or steal someone's ID!

YOU DO NEED A TAXPAYER ID!

Anyone can get a Tax Identification Number from the IRS. All you do is call up and ask for one.

The opportunities, from the manufacturer or importer, through the distribution network to the retailer, for a black market are tremendous. And the profit from such a black market would be an irresistible opportunity. And illegal aliens as well as legal citizens will be looking for bargains. How blind you are!

There is no opportunity for a black market between the manufacturer, importer and the retailer. No tax is owed by the manufacturer or distributor or importer or retailer. Consumers owe the tax and only consumers pay it at the retail final point of sale. All business to business transactions are exempt from the FairTax. Only the retailer collects the FairTax because it's only due at the final retail point of sale, and forwards their collections to the state if their state signs up to collect it with their state sales taxes or in the 5 states who don't now have a sales tax collection organization, then they can contract with a neighboring state to do it for them or the feds will set up shop in their state and do it for them. Both the retailer and the states who decide to collect are each paid a fee based on 1/4 of 1% of the FairTax they collected.

You don't need to steal a SS ID to file an income tax return. You need an SS number to get a driver's license in most states, and get a job with most employers.

You are so desperately against a Fabulous FairTax for no valid or coherent reason at all, after 27 pages, and wracking your weak little minds for 9 days, you still haven't come up with one good reason to oppose it.

You're like heroin addicts on Oxy, addicted to that income tax. DemoQuacks are addicted to the income tax. It's strange to see "conservatives" working so hard to preserve a tax system that rewards importers and illegal aliens at the expense of Americans, and hasn't once in its 105 year history ever paid the bills, not once, not even when they thought Clinton had balanced the budget, he hadn't. That was based on "projections" that didn't come to fruition.

The FairTax funds the government, robustly funds SS and Medicare, penalizes illegal aliens and importers, frees Americans who aren't "retailers" which is the very vast portion of us from any federal tax paperwork obligations of any kind, restores liberty of choice, freedom to spend, invest and save without tax implications, Rebates the tax to Americans and Legal Immigrants for necessities up to a limit. It shuts down all these phony 501 C 3 "charity" frauds we compete with every day on immigration and trade. It's just beautiful.

It's the best tax and economic development legislation ever presented to the American People.

The only question is are Americans still smart enough to grab it and pass it, and I think yes, as soon as we have enough Republicans in Congress to do so. We don't need a lot more, but a few more and then under Trump, the FairTax will become the law of our land solving so many of our problems every day of every week of every month of every year, in due course, by the numbers, without fuss or muss, without international disputes, without WTO, without lawsuits, without trade agreements, without confrontation.

Originally Posted by Judy

Anyone can get a Tax Identification Number from the IRS. All you do is call up and ask for one.

And that's our government's fault for allowing that!

Originally Posted by Judy

There is no opportunity for a black market between the manufacturer, importer and the retailer. No tax is owed by the manufacturer or distributor or importer or retailer.

That's why it is so ripe for black marketeering. When taxes were raised on cigarettes, truckloads were hijacked. People would buy from the black market because they could get their smokes for less than half the legal costs.

With this tax, manufacturers could certainly increase their profits by selling out the back door. And it would be easy to get away with it because there is no IRS auditing their income and expenses.

Further down the line, any distributor could sell a truckload to a blackmarketeer and make an untracked profit.

And an illegal alien would love to get that discount, as well as many legal citizens and aliens.

So it would create a new crime cartel.

Originally Posted by Judy

Consumers owe the tax and only consumers pay it at the retail final point of sale.

If they purchase from a legitimate retailer. You are either playing ignorant, or you are!

Originally Posted by Judy

All business to business transactions are exempt from the FairTax.

Correct! So they are off the books. No one is watching them if they sell to some illegal syndicate. So easy to get around your sales tax.

Originally Posted by Judy

Only the retailer collects, and forwards their collections to the state if they sign up to collect it with their state sales taxes or in the 5 states who don't now have a sales tax collection organization, then they can contract with a neighboring state to do it for them or the feds will set up shop in their state and do it for them. Both the retailer and the states who decide to collect are paid a fee based on 1/4 of 1% of the FairTax they collected.

But those entities get nothing from blackmarketeers. And those people buying from black markets can receive their Rebates like the people who are paying the tax, so criminals are being subsidized by the FairTax. Then, the FairTax rate would have to be raise to cover the loss, on the backs of the people who believed it would be cheaper than Income Tax!

Originally Posted by Judy

You don't need to steal a SS ID to file an income tax return.

So why do so many illegal aliens steal somebody's ID? Nothing will change there with the FairTax!

Originally Posted by Judy

It's strange to see "conservatives" working so hard to preserve a tax system that rewards importers and illegal aliens at the expense of Americans, and hasn't once in its 105 year history every paid the bills, not once, not even when they thought Clinton had balanced the budget, he hadn't.

The FairTax is supposedly calculated to collect the same amount of revenue that the Income Tax currently does. So, unless the rate is raised, which Congress will be able to do at it's whim, it will accomplish none of what you claim!

Originally Posted by Judy

That was based on "projections" that didn't come to fruition.

Just like your many claims of what the FairTax would do are just projections that will not come to fruition!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax funds the government, robustly funds SS and Medicare, penalizes illegal aliens and importers

WRONG AGAIN! ANOTHER FALSE CLAIM AS IT IS RATED TO EQUAL THE TAXES IT IS REPLACING. IT CURES NOTHING!

Originally Posted by Judy

frees Americans who aren't "retailers" which is the very vast portion of us from any federal tax paperwork obligations of any kind

Unless you want the Rebate or sell something!

Originally Posted by Judy

restores liberty of choice, freedom to spend, invest and save without tax implications

Especially if you evade paying the tax by buying from the newly created, robust black market!

Originally Posted by Judy

Rebates the tax to Americans and Legal Immigrants for necessities up to a limit.

Whether they need it or not!

Originally Posted by Judy

The only question is are Americans still smart enough to grab it and pass it

Not if they recognize the Snake-Oil that it is!

Originally Posted by jtdc

And that's our government's fault for allowing that!

That's why it is so ripe for black marketeering. When taxes were raised on cigarettes, truckloads were hijacked. People would buy from the black market because they could get their smokes for less than half the legal costs.

With this tax, manufacturers could certainly increase their profits by selling out the back door. And it would be easy to get away with it because there is no IRS auditing their income and expenses.

Further down the line, any distributor could sell a truckload to a blackmarketeer and make an untracked profit.

And an illegal alien would love to get that discount, as well as many legal citizens and aliens.

So it would create a new crime cartel.

If they purchase from a legitimate retailer. You are either playing ignorant, or you are!

Correct! So they are off the books. No one is watching them if they sell to some illegal syndicate. So easy to get around your sales tax.

But those entities get nothing from blackmarketeers. And those people buying from black markets can receive their Rebates like the people who are paying the tax, so criminals are being subsidized by the FairTax. Then, the FairTax rate would have to be raise to cover the loss, on the backs of the people who believed it would be cheaper than Income Tax!

So why do so many illegal aliens steal somebody's ID? Nothing will change there with the FairTax!

The FairTax is supposedly calculated to collect the same amount of revenue that the Income Tax currently does. So, unless the rate is raised, which Congress will be able to do at it's whim, it will accomplish none of what you claim!

Just like your many claims of what the FairTax would do are just projections that will not come to fruition!

WRONG AGAIN! ANOTHER FALSE CLAIM AS IT IS RATED TO EQUAL THE TAXES IT IS REPLACING. IT CURES NOTHING!

Unless you want the Rebate or sell something!

Especially if you evade paying the tax by buying from the newly created, robust black market!

Whether they need it or not!

Not if they recognize the Snake-Oil that it is!

What claims will not come to fruition? You don't think taxing imports will reduce imports? Is Trump wrong about tariffs? You don't think taxing illegal aliens instead of handing them tax refund welfare will curb illegal immigration?

Further down the line, any distributor could sell a truckload to a blackmarketeer and make an untracked profit.

The FairTax doesn't track profit. There is no FairTax on profit. There is no profit to "track", so there is no "untracked profit" with the FairTax.

WRONG AGAIN! ANOTHER FALSE CLAIM AS IT IS RATED TO EQUAL THE TAXES IT IS REPLACING. IT CURES NOTHING!

No, the FairTax is not "rated" to replace the taxes it's eliminating. It was rated to do that in 1999 when income tax rates were much higher, before the Bush tax cuts and these last rounds of income tax cuts, which resulted in big deficits both times.

The FairTax rate hasn't changed, it's still 23% just as it was in 1999, the one year we almost balanced the budget, but it is not revenue neutral any more, it's much more revenue now, much, much more. See, you read something some Anti-FairTax fraud wrote a decade ago, but you don't know enough about the subject matter of taxation and economics to understand you're lost in the deep abyss of desperate ignorance of both taxation and economics as well as current events.

It's fascinating to watch and see, but it's sad also.

Originally Posted by Judy

What claims will not come to fruition? You don't think taxing imports will reduce imports?

All of your claims!

The idea of tariffs on imported items is to raise the price to meet an equivalent price for an American product. Your tax would raise the price of all products leaving the import with the advantage it would have if we didn't have a sales tax. The tariff is only applied to the imported products, and that is the equalizer!

Originally Posted by Judy

You don't think taxing illegal aliens instead of handing them tax refund welfare will curb illegal immigration?

You are apparently too ignorant to read what I have written several times. It is an insignificant burden!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax doesn't track profit. There is no FairTax on profit. There is no profit to "track", so there is no "untracked profit" with the FairTax.

And there is no record to see. So anything sold out the back door can add 23% to the profit on the item. Pretty attractive to many.

Originally Posted by Judy

No, the FairTax is not "rated" to replace the taxes it's eliminating.

So it cannot reduce the National Debt. ANOTHER OF YOUR FALSE CLAIMS FOR YOUR SNAKE-OIL!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax rate hasn't changed, it's still 23% just as it was in 1999, the one year we almost balanced the budget, but it is not revenue neutral any more, it's much more revenue now, much, much more.

In World Wars, Income Tax was ordered. And we have seen many times that a "temporary tax" becomes a permanent tax. Taxes are very seldom reduced. The FairTax can likewise be changed. It is not carved in stone! Until Congress stops spending more than we take in, the debt will grow. And we have seen that Congress will raise taxes (and raise their wages) to cover the spending they legislate. Or borrow more, putting us deeper in debt. Look at how many Continuing Resolutions we have had in recent years, and raises in the Debt Ceiling! Your nuts if you think changing the way we collect money will fix anything!

Originally Posted by jtdc

All of your claims!

The idea of tariffs on imported items is to raise the price to meet an equivalent price for an American product. Your tax would raise the price of all products leaving the import with the advantage it would have if we didn't have a sales tax. The tariff is only applied to the imported products, and that is the equalizer!

You are apparently too ignorant to read what I have written several times. It is an insignificant burden!

And there is no record to see. So anything sold out the back door can add 23% to the profit on the item. Pretty attractive to many.

So it cannot reduce the National Debt. ANOTHER OF YOUR FALSE CLAIMS FOR YOUR SNAKE-OIL!

In World Wars, Income Tax was ordered. And we have seen many times that a "temporary tax" becomes a permanent tax. Taxes are very seldom reduced. The FairTax can likewise be changed. It is not carved in stone! Until Congress stops spending more than we take in, the debt will grow. And we have seen that Congress will raise taxes (and raise their wages) to cover the spending they legislate. Or borrow more, putting us deeper in debt. Look at how many Continuing Resolutions we have had in recent years, and raises in the Debt Ceiling! Your nuts if you think changing the way we collect money will fix anything!

On my God, you don't know anything about the FairTax. The FairTax doesn't raise the price of any domestic product, it actually lowers it. It raises the price of imports simply because most of them pay no tax or tariff at all while American Businesses are supporting one of the most expensive markets on the globe and a very expensive government. You want access to our market, you're going to pay or go sell your shit somewhere else. Try Canada!! They're all "global". Try Germany, they're all "global."

No the tax on illegal aliens is a very very significant cost. See you don't understand how the Rebate works, that's why you get angry and ugly. You don't understand the math.

Americans qualify for a Rebate equal to $226 a month per adult and $81 per child. Illegal aliens don't.

A family of four, 2 adults and 2 children would receive a monthly rebate of $661 dollars, based on 1/12 of the annual rebate of $7,328 based on a household consumption allowance of $31,680.

$661 a month divided by 160 hours a month is $4.00 an hour on a standard work week of 40 hours a week for 4 weeks.

So illegal aliens are punished big time by the FairTax and being excluded from the FairTax Rebate. They not only lose all their income tax handouts, they now have to pay $661 a month in FairTaxes that Americans don't have to pay if they sign up for the Rebate. The Americans receive their wage of say $10 an hour plus $4.00 an hour in Household Rebate which is $16.00 before they decide how to spend their money. And in the American household, there are usually 2 jobs so that's $24 an hour for the household. Illegal aliens vying for the same job only make $10.00 an hour usually for 1 worker before they spend their money, and after FairTaxes only have $6.00 an hour compared to the Americans who have their full $20.00 an hour for two adults earning at least $10 an hour each.

It's a huge debilitating penalty for illegal aliens compared to American Workers whose jobs illegal aliens are trying to steal by undercutting them. I mean maybe you know a bunch of illegal aliens who can live in California with a wife and 2 kids on $6 an hour, but I don't know anyone who can live anywhere on that.

No, I'm not nuts, you're nuts, a crazy hysteric about to lose his beloved income tax. How Congress spends the money it receives is up to them and their constituents. But with the FairTax taxing imports, illegal aliens and tourists, while our manufacturers and producers are all tax-free, lean, efficient machines, our workers are going home with all their paycheck free of federal income and payroll withholdings ..... and the government ends up with much more money than it ever did under the income tax raised voluntarily by consumer choice and from many new sources ..... if you can't see the beauty in this tax plan and all that it does to help those of US who really want to fix our country, then you can just be an Ole Grumpy upset that you lost your Turbo Tax stock which might be MW's concern or someone in the family had to look for a new job because their income tax employer went out business or like Johnwk, grumbling over how all hope of his feudal lord system he wants is lost and even now "no longer in print" and he's stuck filing very simple monthly FairTax reports on his retail services.

But many new better investments will be available for stock purchases, many new jobs for bustling businesses and companies who need people who are good with paperwork and counting money, and I think most states will say "hell with this income and property tax crap, lets go all sales tax like the FairTax" and every American will shout from the rooftops, "THANK YOU JUDY AND PRESIDENT TRUMP!"

Republicans will control the Congress for many years to protect our FairTax, to protect our trade, to protect our workers and to protect our borders.

No American will ever lose their home, business, savings, earnings or freedom because of a federal income tax issue and I think soon after, from a state income or local property tax issue either. SS and Medicare will never run out of money, and Americans will be safe, sufficient, employed, prosperous and happy.

Vote Republican in 2018 and Make the FairTax Happen!!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax doesn't raise the price of any domestic product, it actually lowers it.

You need to ease up on those drugs. Now you can't even do simple math! 23% of the price of an item added to the price of that item raises the cost, it does not lower it. Only the black market can do that!

Originally Posted by Judy

It raises the price of imports simply because most of them pay no tax or tariff at all while American Businesses are supporting one of the most expensive markets on the globe and a very expensive government.

But they raise the cost of the American product exactly as much. So the advantage remains!

Originally Posted by Judy

You want access to our market, you're going to pay or go sell your shit somewhere else. Try Canada!! They're all "global". Try Germany, they're all "global."

But if it is imported to our country, our people are the ones who pay, not the country shipping to us!

Originally Posted by Judy

Americans qualify for a Rebate equal to $226 a month per adult and $81 per child. Illegal aliens don't.

$226 out of $2000 earned, is insignificant. And since they are illegal, they probably will buy on the black market, so they get everything without the 23%!

Originally Posted by Judy

$661 a month divided by 160 hours a month is $4.00 an hour on a standard work week of 40 hours a week for 4 weeks.

You sure are lowballing your figures to push your sales tax. They are more likely getting $8 to $10 per hour and working 60 hours a week, which would be more like $2400 per month! A whole lot more than they could make in their country. No sale on the bull!

Originally Posted by Judy

Republicans will control the Congress for many years to protect our FairTax, to protect our trade, to protect our workers and to protect our borders.

Oh yeah! The are really doing a bang-up job now, aren't they? They are almost as swampy as the Democrats.

Originally Posted by Judy

No American will ever lose their home, business, savings, earnings or freedom because of a federal income tax issue

No! But the sales tax won't keep them from losing their house if they can't pay their bills after paying that 23% tax, plus state taxes!

Originally Posted by Judy

SS and Medicare will never run out of money, and Americans will be safe, sufficient, employed, prosperous and happy.

ONLY IF CONGRESS BALANCES THE BUDGETS!

Originally Posted by jtdc

You need to ease up on those drugs. Now you can't even do simple math! 23% of the price of an item added to the price of that item raises the cost, it does not lower it. Only the black market can do that!

But they raise the cost of the American product exactly as much. So the advantage remains!

But if it is imported to our country, our people are the ones who pay, not the country shipping to us!

$226 out of $2000 earned, is insignificant. And since they are illegal, they probably will buy on the black market, so they get everything without the 23%!

You sure are lowballing your figures to push your sales tax. They are more likely getting $8 to $10 per hour and working 60 hours a week, which would be more like $2400 per month! A whole lot more than they could make in their country. No sale on the bull!

Oh yeah! The are really doing a bang-up job now, aren't they? They are almost as swampy as the Democrats.

No! But the sales tax won't keep them from losing their house if they can't pay their bills after paying that 23% tax, plus state taxes!

ONLY IF CONGRESS BALANCES THE BUDGETS!

The FairTax isn't added to the price, it's already in the price plus it taxes new sources like illegal aliens, imports sold here, and tourists and visitors.

I know this discussion of FairTax and Trade and now FairTax and Illegal Immigration has really pulled the rug out of from under you, but it's all true, all Americans know that taxing imports at the same rate as domestic products is the only "fair" thing to do in our market. All Americans know that ending income tax giveaways to illegal aliens is the right thing to do which the FairTax does because it repeals all income based taxes and taxes illegal aliens fully when they consume while our dear Americans have a nice Rebate for necessities if they want it. American know that this is not only "fair", it's the right thing to do. After all, this is our country, not theirs. We want Americans First, both workers and businesses. And the FairTax protects them both whereas the income tax has sold both our workers and businesses out.

Time for Action on the FairTax! Sooner the better!!

HR 25 in the US House of Representatives!!!

VOTE REPUBLICAN IN 2018!!

Originally Posted by Judy

On my God, you don't know anything about the FairTax. The FairTax doesn't raise the price of any domestic product, it actually lowers it.

Then why have a family consumption allowance?


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Then why have a family consumption allowance?


JWK

To determine how much consumer spending by citizens and legal residents is exempt from the FairTax.

Originally Posted by Judy

There is no opportunity for a black market ...

With a 23 percent tax, you bet there is opportunity for a black market. Foreign made products will flood into our country without detection and be sold in the underground economy.

Stop making crap up.


JWK