Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

The Damage this Usurper is doing is permanent... He is purposely tearing down the United States of America, from the INSIDE OUT!
Economically he has Bankrupt America. Racially, he has Blacks turning against whites, Hispanics turning against blacks and whites because of his Supreme Court nominee. He travels oversea and BASHES this Country every chance he gets, and soon he will be going to Germany and France to tell them "WE ARE SORRY FOR THE WAR CRIMES WE COMMITTED DURING WW2"!
Soetoro and his group of Advisers have to be held responsible for THIER CRIMES! It is going to take years to fix the Damage they have created, and for some Prison is To Good.
It Has To STOP!

BetsyRoss wrote:
Vattel's opinion was his own (he was a philosopher, not an American legislator) so his words, while taken seriously by many of our nation's founders (who also thought differently than modern folks on a lot of issues), do not carry any force of law.

MinutemanCDC_SC wrote:

The framers of the U.S. Constitution, attempting to disassociate from British case law and common law, relied heavily on international law. The most prominent authority on that was The Law of Nations by de Vattel. Thomas Jefferson and others among the framers used de Vattel's text to phrase the articles, paragraphs, sections, and clauses of the U.S. Constitution. True, de Vattel's words had no force of law in the U.S.. But his words as adapted for the U.S. Constitution by the framers became part of the legal foundation of the new nation. Think, "original intent."

George Washington wrote around 20,000 letters during his life that are archived. Interestingly, as the Revolutionary War progressed, the patriots found that some of their defeats were attributable to foreign-born or foreign-influenced soldiers serving with the Revolutionary army. Letters written in a period of about 1778 and later deserve a careful review since it was about that time that the phrase "natural born American" started to appear and certain restrictions started to be imposed about who could serve with the American troops -- to increase the likelihood that there would be 100% loyalty and fidelity to the American revolutionary cause against Great Britain. Among these "conditions" there was scrutiny given to an "entire family" being in America and having become "well settled" in America.

It may be that attempts to find the founders "borrowing" a definition from some written authority like Vattel are not the whole answer, but only a partial answer. "Natural born American" might have been sui generis, and the historical exchanges of letters -- with close attention to those between George Washington and John Jay (later to become the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court) -- which pointed to the kinds of specific restrictions that should be imposed on enlistees and on civil servants and officials in the infant government might also have, in essence, imparted a definition.

Complete answers aren't always found in legal treatises and caselaw, but sometimes require reference to letters that show what was on the minds of the people who wrote the governing document.

Whenever the courts reach a point that they have a case in which they must define 'natural born citizen' the best Brief is going to be the one that has a good command of historical correspondence.

Be careful about using the OPEN GOVERNMENT DIALOGUE forum of the National Academy of Public Administration to discuss Barack Obama's Constitutional eligibility.

All posts are subject to hostile review.

Actual dialog is impossible, because the private message function is disabled. Posters cannot contact each other, except publicly in the forum.

All posts are licensed to OPEN GOVERNMENT DIALOGUE under the Creative Commons legal code. It is a good license code, but enforcing lawyers from the Executive Office of the President of the United States could be very unpleasant.

Any new information that comes to light on OPEN GOVERNMENT DIALOGUE not only becomes the property of the forum owners, but it immediately draws the attention of Mr. Obama's damage control specialists. They have media access to defuse potentially explosive discussion ideas before they get traction.

We don't know with whom we're dealing there: in particular, whether the email addresses of dissidents will be listed, watched, or hacked, or whether ID's of dissidents might be turned over to the Chicago mob and the Nation of Is|am for more nefarious tactics by their "enforcers".

Besides, why would we want to forsake good discussions in friendly forums to be insulted in an Obama administration forum?

But if you think you are going to convince the O-bots on their turf, knock yourself out.

[size=117]Benton Bain posted the following excellent information in the OPEN GOVERNMENT DIALOGUE, which is neither open nor a dialog, and possibly not even an official government site. I made minor edits and added punctuation for clarity.

Anybody, along with Sen. Barack Obama can seek the presidency of the United States of America, but may not qualify.

Fact 1. Constitution Article II, Section II sets forth the qualifications for presidential candidates: ""No person except a NATURAL BORN Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and have been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Fact 2. Just because you are a US Citizen or have a US birth certificate, does NOT mean that you are a "NATURAL BORN" Citizen of the USA!!!

Fact 3. A Birth Certificate or documentation of a birth in a hospital should include at least: a number referring to the document, the name of the hospital, the mother's and father's birthplace and ages, and the attending doctor's signature.
[To be a legal record, it must have, on the reverse side, the stamp of the current Registrar of Vital Records and the embossed seal of the State of Hawaii Department of Health. A Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth also includes the signatures of one parent and the Registrar of Vital Records.]

Fact 4. The state of Hawaii issues a Certification of Live Birth (COLB) for those born: inside the State of Hawaii, outside of the State of Hawaii, and even outside the country if the parents, or one of the parents, are natives of, or residents in, the State of Hawaii. They also allow Late Registration. Every illegal alien born in Hawaii gets a Hawaiian COLB!!! The questionable* (see notes below) Certification of Live Birth (with a rev. 11/01 printed by a computer on a 2001 form for someone supposedly born in 1961 [not an issue - it is just a computer generated abstract from the online database]) submitted on the web page of Barack Obama indicates that Barack Hussein Obama II was born on Aug. 4, 1961 to the mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama. http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert

Fact 5. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, was not a US citizen, he was a bureaucrat Muslim in the communist government of Kenya. Under the British Nationality Act of 1948 he was a citizen of the United Kingdom and its Colonies.
[Assuming that Barack Obama II was born in Kenya,]
[u]nder this Act, IF [Barack Obama, Snr.] was married to Stanley Ann Dunham and IF he acknowledged Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, as his son, or IF they were not married and he still acknowledged the boy, and IF he filed the correct paperwork with the British Colonial Authorities in Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama II, was born as a British Colonial Citizen and possesses a Birth Certificate which should still exist on file in Kenya and, presumably, London, England. Under Chapter VI. Section 87, of The Constitution of Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama Sr. became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th, 1963. If Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, filed the correct papers with the British Colonial Authorities and with the Kenyan Government, Barack Hussein Obama II also became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th, 1963, under Section 97 of the Kenyan Constitution and still remains a Kenyan Citizen.

Fact 6. Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo, a Muslim Indonesian citizen.

Fact 7. Under Indonesian Law you cannot adopt a child over the age of five, even abroad, if you are an Indonesian Citizen. In “Dreams from my Fatherâ€

1. Nov. 3, 2004 --- Obama wins Senate seat from Illinois. Did Obama have a copy of his Hawaii birth certificate, long form or short form, on that date? Only Senator-elect Obama, and maybe some close relatives and close friends, know for sure.

2. Feb. 11, 2007 ---Obama announces that he is running for President of the United States. Did Obama have a copy of his long form or short form birth certificate on that day? Only Senator Obama and some of his relatives and some of his closest friends know for sure.

3. June 6, 2007 --- Date of Hawaii stamp on an Obama short form birth certificate, a certificate that starts to appear on presidential candidate Obama's official website in 2007.

4. My point is this: Does anybody have an explanation/theory as to why Obama would suddenly request a copy of his short form Hawaii birth certificate around June 2007 or earlier, especially when Obama was in the middle of his heated presidential campaign?

5. For instance, I think most people request a copy of their birth certificats from their birth state usually or only when they lose their birth certificate.

6. So, do you think that Senator Obama lost his birth certificate in 2007 or earlier, and that is the main reason why he suddenly requested a new, short form birth certificate from Hawaii, a birth certificate with the date stamp of June 6, 2007, and the one which Obama released on his official website in 2008?

7. NOTE: As most of us know, only Obama, or a close relative, could legally request a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007. That is, an Obama staff member could not legally request and receive an Obama birth certificate from Hawaii.

8. In other words, Obama cannot now claim in 2009 that it was a staff member---not Obama---who irresponsibly requested and obtained a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007 without Obama's knowledge and permission.

• All of the following is either hypothetical conjecture or a dumb guess, and
  your guess is as good as mine, unless you are an Obama apologist or an Obot.
  Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is strictly intentional.

Originally Posted by mirse

Does anybody have an explanation/theory as to why Obama would suddenly request a copy of his short form Hawaii birth certificate around June 2007 or earlier, especially when Obama was in the middle of his heated presidential campaign?

This was only a few weeks after the seemingly staged, artificial hullaballoo about Sen. McCain's NBC status because he was born in Colon Hospital, in the Republic of Panama, not in U.S. jurisdiction. You do remember when Senators Clinton and Obama made such an obviously phony fuss about accepting Sen. McCain as a natural born citizen, despite the apparent disqualification?

Originally Posted by mirse

6. So, do you think that Senator Obama lost his birth certificate in 2007 or earlier, and that is the main reason why he suddenly requested a new, short form birth certificate from Hawaii, a birth certificate with the date stamp of June 6, 2007, and the one which Obama released on his official website in 2007?

I have no idea whether he lost the one he previously found folded among some papers, but I have a pretty good idea about why the McCain qualification and then the FightTheSmears announcement were (most likely) staged at that time - to forestall the inevitable questions about Mr. Obama's eligibility as a natural born citizen.

With Pres. Clinton's impeachment trial for perjury fresh in Sen. Obama's mind, he certainly would have had his minions do all the publishing and promotion of the forged Certification. Correct me if I am mistaken, but he has neither claimed that that was his birth document, nor testified that he was an NBC, nor made any other attestation about his status for which he could be indicted for perjury when it all comes crashing down.

Originally Posted by mirse

As most of us know, only Obama, or a close relative, could legally request a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007. That is, an Obama staff member could not legally request and receive an Obama birth certificate from Hawaii. In other words, Obama cannot now claim in 2009 that it was a staff member---not Obama---who irresponsibly requested and obtained a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007 without Obama's knowledge and permission.

Grandma Toots Dunham in Honolulu, who is no longer available for questioning. You want me to do their thinking for them?

Originally Posted by mirse

"]As most of us know, only Obama, or a close relative, could legally request a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007. That is, an Obama staff member could not legally request and receive an Obama birth certificate from Hawaii. In other words, Obama cannot now claim in 2009 that it was a staff member---not Obama---who irresponsibly requested and obtained a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007 without Obama's knowledge and permission.

Grandma Toots Dunham in Honolulu, who is no longer available for questioning. You want me to do their thinking for them?[/quote]
******
I'm sorry, but I don't undertstand your statement above.

Are you saying that Obama's grandmother is the one who probably requested the 2007 Obama short form birth certificate, and it wasn't Obama who did it?

If she did, could she have legally done so without first contacting Obama and getting his permission to do so? Thanks.

Wisconsin Alert!!! Please join in!! When we help one state we help them all!!


http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-905684.html#905684

Recently, May 2009, White House press secretary Gibbs responded mockingly to a WorldNetDaily reporter who asked why Obama won't release his long form birth certificate, the one with the names of the birth hospital and birth doctor on it.

To me, Gibbs' mocking and confusing answer raised more questions than it answered.

1. Gibbs said that the birth certificate was "provided" by Hawaii.
a. What did Gibbs mean by "provided"?
b. Gibbs makes it sound as if Hawaii sent Obama a copy of his birth certificate out of the kindness of its heart; that is, Hawaii officials one day simply decided to send Obama his short form birth certificate just to be nice.
c. However, we know that Hawaii does not "provide" birth certificates to persons just because it feels like it.
d. We know that Hawaii ONLY "provides" copies of birth certificates to persons who REQUEST them, and only to the person whose name is on the birth certificate, or to his very close relatives.
e. So, who requested this short form birth certificate in 2007? It looks more and more that it was Obama himself.
f. Obama's birth certificate that he mentions in his book: Wasn't that certificate also "provided" by the state of Hawaii, so why didn't Obama put that birth certificate on the internet? Did the President of the United States unbelievably lose his birth certificate?

2. "Certification" by Hawaii : What in the world was Gibbs talking about when he said that the birth certificate on the internet received a "certification" by Hawaii? How does a Hawaiian birth certificate displayed on the internet earn a "certification" by the state of Hawaii? Was the "certification" put in writing for all the world to see? If it was, I didn't see it.

3. Yes, in my opinion, Gibbs' mocking answer to the WorldNetDaily reporter's birth certificate question raised more questions than it answered. More later.

Originally Posted by mirse

Originally Posted by MinutemanCDC_SC

Originally Posted by mirse

As most of us know, only Obama, or a close relative, could legally request a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007. That is, an Obama staff member could not legally request and receive an Obama birth certificate from Hawaii. In other words, Obama cannot now claim in 2009 that it was a staff member---not Obama---who irresponsibly requested and obtained a copy of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2007 without Obama's knowledge and permission.

Grandma Toots Dunham in Honolulu, who is no longer available for questioning. You want me to do their thinking for them?

******
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your statement above.

Are you saying that Obama's grandmother is the one who probably requested the 2007 Obama short form birth certificate, and it wasn't Obama who did it?

If she did, could she have legally done so without first contacting Obama and getting his permission to do so? Thanks.

If not Toots, then it could have been one of his other living relatives: V.P. Dick Cheney, Maya Soetoro-Ng, Raila Odinga, Mama Sarah Obama Onyongo, his half-brother or half-sister in Kenya, or maybe Zeituni Onyango, his illegal alien aunt in Boston.

How do I know? It was a joke, Mirse. I guess I didn't tell it right.