Thread: CHICANO - Why are you here?

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by MechEngineer

...why do they run from there problems at home and come here?

Is that a rhetorical question? Well I shall answer in kind.

Why were there so many Europeans moving here during colonial times?

Why was there a major influx of Chinese even when anti-immigrant groups w/ the same rhetoric most of you bring passed laws such as the chinese exclusion act?

Why were there so many Irish and Italians getting off boats at Elis island?

Why were there many Cubans so desperate to leave their country?

The list goes on and on.

Is it that none of them were man enough to start a revolution in their own country??

Starting a revolution is your characterization of the action that needs to be taken. If they'd start by getting an education and pressing for change from the local level forward, they might be able to accomplish something. But it's not our problem, because their country is not our country of vice versa.

And for what it's worth, there was plenty of backlash to the massive immigration surge in the mid-1800s. Crime ran rampant in the North for some time before serious crackdowns on Irish gangs and then the disruption of the Civil War restored some modicum of order. The massive influx of Italian immigrants arounf the turn of the century had its price as well, and the Mafia continues to be an irritant in the Northeast. The massive influxes of immigrants in those eras are mistakes we should have learned from, and to some extent did learn from, which is why US immigration laws have become progressively more strict.

Some good points but at the end of the day, we are still the greatest country in the world because of the collaboration of immigrants (legal or not) and those native americans.

Originally Posted by chicano

You all want massive deportations. This is our only disagreement.

If that is our only disagreement, then I guess there is no disagreement between you and me. I would prefer massive arrests and due process of law. Anyone not wanting to be arrested would deport him/herself without any assistance on our part. I mean, why should we fund a service to deport people who will come right back? I say give them reasonable incentive to leave, and they will do so at no cost to us.

Originally Posted by MechEngineer

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by MechEngineer

...why do they run from there problems at home and come here?

Is that a rhetorical question? Well I shall answer in kind.

Why were there so many Europeans moving here during colonial times?

Why was there a major influx of Chinese even when anti-immigrant groups w/ the same rhetoric most of you bring passed laws such as the chinese exclusion act?

Why were there so many Irish and Italians getting off boats at Elis island?

Why were there many Cubans so desperate to leave their country?

The list goes on and on.

Is it that none of them were man enough to start a revolution in their own country??

Starting a revolution is your characterization of the action that needs to be taken. If they'd start by getting an education and pressing for change from the local level forward, they might be able to accomplish something. But it's not our problem, because their country is not our country of vice versa.

And for what it's worth, there was plenty of backlash to the massive immigration surge in the mid-1800s. Crime ran rampant in the North for some time before serious crackdowns on Irish gangs and then the disruption of the Civil War restored some modicum of order. The massive influx of Italian immigrants arounf the turn of the century had its price as well, and the Mafia continues to be an irritant in the Northeast. The massive influxes of immigrants in those eras are mistakes we should have learned from, and to some extent did learn from, which is why US immigration laws have become progressively more strict.

Some good points but at the end of the day, we are still the greatest country in the world because of the collaboration of immigrants (legal or not) and those native americans.

I disagree with that characterization. I think that we are the greatest country despite having had relatively open immigration. I say this because we were a great nation before the waves of immigration. Most of the things that make this nation great were crafted by the Christian Anglo-Saxons who founded the nation, and most of the things that are wrong with it are the subsequent perversions of that system allowed by immigrants who were more interested in wealth and security than liberty.

Originally Posted by MechEngineer

We are also a world governed by ECONOMIC law which demands a work force U.S. born citizens aren't simply pumping out. That is why, even w/ 12 million illegal immigrants currenty holding U.S. jobs, we still have one of the lowest unemployment rates in recent history.

A problem with this is that not all those 12 million are in the work force. You've got the illegal alien gang bangers and the drug dealers. I doubt they are holding down jobs. Then I'd guess there are a really large number of illegal alien children who were brought here by their illegal alien parents. The ones stealing space from legal American children. In my state 20% of the recent school population growth is from illegal aliens. Then there are the illegal aliens who are holding jobs illegally in the US. Who did these jobs before the illegals came?

O.k. Crocket. I'm all ears. What have I said that is false? What is dishonest? What is racist?

You think that just because you throw those big words around, called me ignorant, and a coward you are going to....actually, I don't know what the hell you are trying to accomplish. You think that I am going to be scared because you have that picture of a mean looking dog?

With all that you have said and all that I have said, anyone can see who the real coward is. You sit behind this computer all day, bashing on people who can do nothing because they have no rights. You call people who disagree with your beliefs names just like a little kid. You try to intimidate people's opinions by attempting to ridicule their position based on their mentality, even though millions and millions of Americans share the same position as me. Dude, I am sorry, but you know that if you look back and see yourself, you are the pathetic coward. You live in your own little isolated world of a few and only have enough courage to go to a website where you know everyone shares the exact same perspectives you do. You fear any debate. You fear any contrary ideas. You fear the illegal immigrants. You fear that those in power will have a reality check. You fear that unlike you, we are united. You fear US.

You know damn well that your "courage" has taken you nowhere but to this website. Wanna talk face to face? Trust me man, you wouldn't want that. It is not because you disagree with me, but because of how you have ATTEMPTED to attack me personally. Hell, if illegal immigration has done you so much damage go ahead and complain, and write, and lobby against them. But just don't start crying and nagging and ridiculing when we do the same but for our cause.

It is embarrasing to see how you have carried yourself throughout our little talks. You try to act bad so others say" wow, he talks tough AND has a tough dog! And look at how he is ripping on Chicano!" Then you say I wouldn't do it face to face. What are you going to do? Beat me up?

Go to other websites and do what I do. Talk to other people who have a more reasonable approach to our problem. I know I know. You are scared, but that is what growing up is alllll about. You have to get outside of your comfort box and into the real world.

The most pathetic thing you have said is about racism. For the last time kid, this arguement is about legal status, not about race. And ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE TO ASK, ISN'T IT?

And what questions am I avoiding?

You fear the illegal immigrants. You fear that those in power will have a reality check. You fear that unlike you, we are united. You fear US.

Didn't you say earlier that you were legal??

Originally Posted by chicano

Dixie:

I'm not a troll because I haven't broken any of the Alipac rules. I'm not "trolling" the website to see what you guys are planning. Everybody already knows that there are people like you that have an anti illegal immigrant agenda, just like there is the pro illegal immigrant agenda. I just like to see what rational people use in their arguements against illegal immigration and like to see how they respond when I attempt to show them the other side of the story. Sometimes I realize that you make good points, and other times not at all. As for the reactions, well, I have to give the prize to crocket for having the best ones. They are the funniest.

I was born in Chicago Illinois so I am a citizen, not illegal.

My parents are permanent residents, not criminals.

Whether or not I am a "sinner" is up to God to decide, not you.

If I was ignorant, I would just lay back and let this whole situation go through without saying a word, since it doesn't affect me.


Crocket:

The words you use are toooo big for an ignorant person like me to understand. WOW! I am amazed ! You are sooooo smart!!

I have to say nice things to you man because seriously, I think you are about to start crying. Once again, the name calling is the best you got? I'm just going to let you cool down. C'mon now, take deeeeep breaths.

Amercian_made, people need to respect our laws. When people break the laws, they must pay the price. In this case, I think it should be fines and assimilation. You all want massive deportations. This is our only disagreement.

chicano, are you legal or not? Why are you making stuff up?

yes, what is your point?

Great, now I am for open borders........

Originally Posted by chicano

O.k. Crocket. I'm all ears. What have I said that is false? What is dishonest? What is racist?

You think that just because you throw those big words around, called me ignorant, and a coward you are going to....actually, I don't know what the hell you are trying to accomplish. You think that I am going to be scared because you have that picture of a mean looking dog?

With all that you have said and all that I have said, anyone can see who the real coward is. You sit behind this computer all day, bashing on people who can do nothing because they have no rights. You call people who disagree with your beliefs names just like a little kid. You try to intimidate people's opinions by attempting to ridicule their position based on their mentality, even though millions and millions of Americans share the same position as me. Dude, I am sorry, but you know that if you look back and see yourself, you are the pathetic coward. You live in your own little isolated world of a few and only have enough courage to go to a website where you know everyone shares the exact same perspectives you do. You fear any debate. You fear any contrary ideas. You fear the illegal immigrants. You fear that those in power will have a reality check. You fear that unlike you, we are united. You fear US.

You know damn well that your "courage" has taken you nowhere but to this website. Wanna talk face to face? Trust me man, you wouldn't want that. It is not because you disagree with me, but because of how you have ATTEMPTED to attack me personally. Hell, if illegal immigration has done you so much damage go ahead and complain, and write, and lobby against them. But just don't start crying and nagging and ridiculing when we do the same but for our cause.

It is embarrasing to see how you have carried yourself throughout our little talks. You try to act bad so others say" wow, he talks tough AND has a tough dog! And look at how he is ripping on Chicano!" Then you say I wouldn't do it face to face. What are you going to do? Beat me up?

Go to other websites and do what I do. Talk to other people who have a more reasonable approach to our problem. I know I know. You are scared, but that is what growing up is alllll about. You have to get outside of your comfort box and into the real world.

The most pathetic thing you have said is about racism. For the last time kid, this arguement is about legal status, not about race. And ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE TO ASK, ISN'T IT?

And what questions am I avoiding?

No it's a different part of your anatomy than your ears that best defines you. I think you also have reading comprehension problems, because I PLAINLY stated what your lies were. Specifically:

1. You claimed that the people here are against helping the poor. That is a lie. Being "poor" has nothing to do with the issue. Illegally entering this country and continuing to break our laws by driving without insurance, illegally accessing public funds, fraudulently obtaining drivers licenses and other governmental documents, illegally voting, etc. is the issue.

The US provides significant aid to Mexico and other Central and South American nations. As a matter of fact, the US government provides significant aid to most of the world. American citizens provide billions of dollars to underprivileged children and poor and distressed nations through private charity IN ADDITION to caring for our own poor. Claiming that Americans don't care about the poor is a slanderous lie. Please do me a favor and provide the numbers for government and private charity provided by the nation you parents came from, and let's compare that to US charity.

2. You claimed that people here favored "separating families." That is a demonstrable lie. US citizens in general support the idea of keeping families together on their own side of the border. If capture or incarceration results in an illegal immigrant being deported while his family remains behind, they always have the option of joining the deported individual back in the home country. If they fail to do so, it is they who are consenting to separation.

As for calling you a liar, a simpleton, and a child, I can scarcely be faulted for calling a spade a spade. You are what you are, which is a shifty little propagandist who is not even competent to carry out his imagined crusade. You repeatedly dodge questions as you just did here and as you will undoubtedly do again. I have never called you liar without specifying the alleged lie, yet you have never defended yourself other than to feign insult.

As for your "more reasonable" solution to this problem, you have yet to propose ANY viable solution other than total capitulation to anyone who wants to violate the sovereignty of this nation.

The last portion of your post is so poorly written that it makes no sense, and so I will decline to attempt the decipher and answer it. I will comment on your farcical attempt to bow up and puff your little chest. Who do you think you're kidding, kid?