Thread: Christianity verses Islam.

Well for starters christians don't fly planes into buildings

A happy accident of history that aircraft and 100 floor buildings were not present during some of Christianity's more fanatical days.

Take as you will, but I've long believed that organized religions go through stages in their developments and life cycles. One of those stages is an insane drive to convert or kill all those who are not of The Faith. IIRC my history correctly, Judaism went through such LONG ago. Christianity, being a derivation of Judaism, also went through that phase in more recent history. Islam, being an even more recent off shoot of the same basic root faith, is going through that phase now. Unfortunately for those of us who are NOT deeply pious Whabbist Muslims, this is occurring in OUR lifetimes. I doubt that this phenomena is limited to the monotheastic faiths. Hinuism, Animism and the other Pagan religions have probably experienced that same thing.

To this rather cynical Ásatrúar, its all just petty bickering over tribal god images; who as the best invisible friend in the sky.

Sindawe, I want to clarify to you, the difference in history as far as Christians go.

The Catholics were the perpetrators of the violence due to their overzealous drive to convert and religiously subvert the people. Then you have the Anabaptists, and Lutherans who shook off the grip of the corrupted Catholic Church to follow the Bible as their only authority.

The Catholic Church attempted to persecute those who would not follow Catholicism, many were killed for their desire to worship God and follow the fundamentals of the Bible.

Many finally had the chance to make their way out of Europe to be able to freely worship without the oppression of the Catholic Church or it's offshoot, the Church of England.

These people have been known as "protestants" for protesting against the false teachings of the Catholic Church (i.e., praying to idols, graven images and discouraging their flock to actually read and know the Bible). Protestants are who founded America. To me, there is a huge difference when a person talks about "Christianity" and attempting to lump the two into one belief. It is like saying Buddhism and Islam being one belief. Not at all true and a vast difference from each other.

Want to really know what you are talking about? Go to a Catholic Church for at least a month, then go to a Baptist church for a month. You will see and appreciate the differences.

I can say this, my mother was raised Catholic as well as my husband. My father was raised Baptist, as now is my husband. He says there is an enormous difference.

So please, learn the difference. It is not saying people that go to a Catholic Church are at all bad, they are good people. The history of the Catholic Church is the violent one, I have not read of Anabaptists, Lutherans, Puritans, Quakers, Amish and the likes, killing people who did not want ot believe the same as them.

Please differentiate.

AmericanElizabeth: True, I'd posted in mid thought process again, a habit I have on occasion. Cursed brain wants to think about too many things at once.

IIRC, Anabaptists, Lutherans. Puritans, Quakers, Amish, Mormons, Branch Davidians et al are ALL post Reformation sects of the same basic faith, Christianity. Just as Shia and Sunni are sects of Islam, and there are branches of Judaism and Wicca. Additionally as I recall, the Puritans had little problem putting to death (in horrific fashion) those whom they believed (erroneously) to be in liege with "The Devil". Witness also the treatment of Mormans by their fellow Christians here in this land, and the Mormon treatment of their fellow Christians on occasion. I do believe that Protestants and Catholics had no issue with butchering each other in Europe over which path the faith would take. Christiandom's principal hostility to the Outsider (the Crusades) took place prior to the Reformation. Beyond that, their energies were focused on expunging the heresy within.

One of my points I was vaporously alluding to (but did not state (my bad)) was that two of the three prinicpal monotheastic faiths have gone through some form of reevaluation of their principals and doctrines. The more recent and resurrected faiths are still too young to have gone though that fanatical "Kill'em all, <insert deity of choice> will know his/her own." stage. With reason they will learn from the mistakes of their elders, but then how often have reason and faith intertwined?

No, not true. The cathedrals, mosque and temples of the diverse faiths are testiment that Faith and Reason can go hand in hand, and to ends uplifting rather than profane.

Originally Posted by American_made

More people have died in the name of religion then anything else, But one thing I will caution about Islam is this. The Koran says to kill the infidel and anyone who does not convert to Islam is in danger. If you do convert then change your mind you are to be killed. This is not a loving religion, This comes from a Catholic boy who went to Catholic school etc and I do not claim to be an expert in Islam and refuse to read the Koran because it is against my personal beliefs of freedom. I do not believe women should be treated like cattle. Man was given free will and should be a slave to no one including those declaring war or making a living in the name of religion. This opinion is just from what I have heard from the news media in regards to the Koran.

You are so mis informed. I would be very uncomfortable with any religion that forbid me to read anything that would confirm my belief. How do you know your religion is the right religion if you know nothing of other religions? Study other religions has made my beliefs stronger and I do not accept anything that is told to me in tradition, doctrine or legend. I believe once the pope did not allow its followere to read the bible? Free will allowes you to search. I have so many questions about the catholic religion that do not co-incide with bibical teaching. It is sad that all you know is what you have heard from the Media. You would benefit from reading a book...UNDERSTAND ISLAM by Thomas Lippman. You would not understan what you were reading if you read the Koran.

My dearest AmericanElizabeth,

Your comments are noted.

I have read the "rules" many times and try to abide by them. I also see them broken many a time, realizing that moderators cannot be everywhere at the same time or all times. Free speech and debate encouraged, etc. Under the topic of General Discussion, I didn't notice where religion came into play there in the subjects mentioned.

No name calling? What about your comment: Catholics being "brain dead clones." "(Methodist and the like)"

I mention the above, only as an an example.

"Hot & Cold sarcasm?" Perhaps 'tis true to some degree. But it was not the intent of my reply made. There is the written word and how it is perceived. The written words many a time, are lacking in several respects.

It makes you sick about the abortion issue? Me too! Much of what is happening to our country and people make me sick. Truth is often hard to swallow, and I can understand that. I have two sons, and six grandchildren.

It was mentioned that your "husband was in Nam" and that "we love our soldiers and veterans." My husband and myself were both in Nam. Shall I tell some more things that make people sick to their stomachs? Much like the children rigged to blow up in the Middle East, etc., so were the children rigged to blow up when picked up by a soldier in kindness in Nam. Those Americans who were "Tunnel Rats." The dead Americans floating down the rivers. I shall refrain from expressing "freedom" of that "speech" any further, by going into detail.

You suggest I'm around here a little more? I'm reading and am around, more than you know. I just don't always post comments. Primarily due to the fact that I do not feel like being "attacked" in any form. Whether your reply post to mine was an attack or not, I'll let it stand on its own. I am reminded that each and every time a finger is pointed toward someone, our hand has three fingers pointed back at ourselves. Just some food for thought.

I grew up as one of those old Protestants. The kind that goes and prays in a closet, or on a hillside and yes, fellowship with others. I disagree strongly with killers of other so-called religions or brain washing groups; not to mention some other of their tactics.

I am totally against illegal immigration and all the freebies they get from our tax dollars. The resulting destructing of this country. Crime is on the rise, as is so plainly stated here on another thread. Americans are coming up on the short end of the stick in far too many ways. What is going on in this country is so complex, it's difficult to separate issues In one respect or another, they are all linked together. Greed seems to be the motivation of our politicians.

I don't know if I have eased your mind toward me or not. You said it yourself ... others have been banned and it may just have been unjustly so in some cases? Good people who are fighting for the same cause these discussion groups represent. Was that issue brought up in your reply as a "threat?" A caution? It could possibly happen to me?

Just remember I'm on your side and this country's side.

scepter, I have some knowledge of the workings of psychometrics and I'm puzzled as to how you can determine an individuals intelligence from an emotionally charged posting written from the heart. If you prefer reading the self serving screed of a Rhodes Scholar read Bill Clinton's book.
By the way I didn't detect genius in your topic jumping rants.

Not a threat but just to help. I have seen people banned that I liked to converse with because they had neglected to read the rules. I missed their conversations.

As for Vietnam, it was (to my understanding, as I was not there personally) a very gruesome and brutal war. As is any society that uses their beliefs, or lack thereof, to kill others.

As for tha basis of what is happening in this world, it is all a cause of mans sin.

Some politicians have become greedy and self-absorbed, caring little for their true calling, only how they can obtain more power and money. As well, there are way too many capitalists that think they are the only ones on this earth that matter. These people feel that those "peons" that they hire deserve their lowly positions. My mother works for one such person. He refuses to give raises and continues to cut back on benefits. All the while, he builds himself a massive log home in the woods at the expense of his employees.

Some have said these people have earned it and it is theirs to spend, but they have a responsibility and stewardship to their employees, which they expect a lot of usually.

As for brain dead clones. These churches that once broke away from the Catholic Church, allowed themselves to be absorbed back in by playing the moderate field. They slowly allowed Catholic traditions to creep back in, which is what they once spoke against. They have now begun to follow the Catholic to dictate their policies on illegal immigration. Instead of speaking about the wrong in it, the laws broke, they have started using the mantra "No human is illegal".

This is what was meant by that.

Any person who loves this country should be offended by supposed men and women of God who support law breaking, it should not matter their religion.

As for Islam. It is unfortunate that those who are peaceful are not strong enough to speak out against those who are extremists, so the extremists have already won that battle.

I want to share a story about Islam. My friend cleans house for a lady and her husband, she a lawyer and he a Rabbi. They have two daughters. They live in the side of town where there is their synogogue and a major mosque. This lady took her daughter to the mosque to reassure them these were nice people and did not want to kill them.

In the end of the conversation, this mosque leader asked the Rabbis wife "do you know why this happened?". Thinking he was going to say something more along the lines like extremism or such, she queried him for his thoughts, he said "it is because of the Jews". She could not get her now more worried girls out of there.

This is a local man who teaches this hatred right in my home state. As well, there have been people arrested out of this mosque with links to Al Qaida, and on two occassions, Islamic extremists have attempted to purchase land in Eastern Oregon to have a potential local training camp.

I have no desire or need for the few "nice" people of the Islamic faith here as they have no spine to break away (or maybe no desire) from those who spew hate and extremism and violence. If they wish to live among the haters and killers, then they too can go back and live in the country of origins, along with the Latino militants and their followers.

We Americans need to stop being so politically correct, say what needs to be said and tell it like it is. There is no shame in it. I do not hate people, but I certainly hate the wrong things they might stand for, you know the saying "love the sinner hate the sin".

As well our government has made the mistake of allowing too many people to come in, in too large a numbers from those countries that have shown a hatred of the United States and all that we stand for (freedom, which they do not allow). We have simply opened up ourselves to potential inside violence. I have concern for my friend over in her side of town, she lives only a few blocks from this mosque, so do many in numerous cities across America.

Sceptor, I do hope you stay on, join in more discussions. I have in the past mentioned to thers about being cautious in their posts. I too started out all hot headed in the beginning, and I'm sure if I had not been told, I might have been banned.

NOW YOU CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION I DID - BUSH IS THE ANTiI - CHRIST

[quote="AmericanElizabeth"]Matthew 7:15-20 (15)"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves" (16)"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" (17)"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (18"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."](19) "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." (20)"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Jesus was warning about the false prophets, he said they and their words were not to be trusted. He said anyone who follows God will be known by their example in their own lives.

Is the teachings of murder in the Koran a "good fruit"? Is it a good example to the world of how the followers of Islam are? No. Here's my point friend, if Christianity is SOO bad (we're not talking politicians, thats a whole other ball of wax), then what about The Salvation Army? What about All those local churches, and their congregations that help others constantly without recognition?

Everything with God is freedom of choice. He asks us to come to him freely, we are not forced to love Him. He asks us to care freely, it is not forced on us. He asks us to be charitable freely, He does not force us to give up a certain amount to charity. Any religion that forces it's people to do anything outside of free will, they are known by their "fruits".

I know Islam by it's "fruits", the fruit of terrorism and death. We are not talking mere self-defense, it is all out hatred of the Israelites and Christians that prompt this, have you not seen all the signs in their protests against us and Israel?

Do you see those same kinds if signs being held up by Christians, Catholic nuns and priests? No you do not.[/quote ISLAM TEACHES PEACE , LOVE AND CHARITY AS DOES CHRISTIANS, BUT BOTH INTERPRET THEIR TEACHING TO BENEFIT THEIR AGENDAS. CHRISTIANS HAVE MORE ACTS OF ACTROCITIES THAN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF ISLAM. BUSH PROFESS TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND THE BLOOD OF OVER 3600 TROOPS IN ON HIS HAND AND HE IS PLANNING TO SEND MORE TO THEIR DEATH IN IRAQ AND CONTINUE INTO IRAN. BUSH IS THE EPTOME OF EVIL. TRULY THE WOLF IN SHEEP CLOTHING.

Now I remember why I used to sneak out of Sunday school.