Thread: illigal Immigrangs outsmart us.

There's no question that it's going to take a lot more than a National ID but I just still think it's a START. Then the local law enforcement needs to be allowed to ASK a person's residency status and turn them over to ICE who then needs to do THEIR job and deport them. As it is, like we ALL have seen, every identifying document out there CAN be counterfeited. We NEED to find a way to stop THAT to begin with. I just don't believe that, by requiring a biometric ID system, it is going to follow with all of the dire invasions of our liberties that DonQuixote suggested.

If this is NOT the answer, I'm open to any other viable options of being able to, without a DOUBT, identify a person's status. The 19 hijackers had NO problem getting fake ID's. Every illegal immigrant has a FAKE ID. That's still why I contend that, IF they can come up with a form of ID that CANNOT be counterfeited, they would have NO EXCUSE for not deporting these illegals.

Originally Posted by Bootsie

There's no question that it's going to take a lot more than a National ID but I just still think it's a START.

WRONG. A START would be for the government to actually enforce the law they already have on the books, which they REFUSE TO DO. They are generating this crisis, by not enforcing existing law, and then tell us they need more powers which infringe upon our liberties to deal with the crisis.

And the SHEEPLE go along with it.

Originally Posted by Bootsie

I just don't believe that, by requiring a biometric ID system, it is going to follow with all of the dire invasions of our liberties that DonQuixote suggested.

RealId is much more than a simple unforgable biometric ID. That biometric information will be entered into a centralized national database. You will have to have it in order to buy, or register an automobile, or real estate, or to conduct many other law abiding activities. It WILL give them the ability to track you virtually anywhere you go.

I never suggested that RealID was going to be the equivalent of doing all the things I mentioned.. what I was pointing out, and apparently you did not get, is that the same arguements you used to justify RealID, and eroding our rights for security, can be used to justify the removal of the entire Bill of Rights as well. And BTW, did you not say above that you think RealID is a good START? Where will be the END?

One of our members made a statement the other day comparing Bush to Hitler, which I took issue with. You defended the other position, saying

Well, he might not be as bad as Hitler in that he hasn't annihilated a whole race of people but he is a dictator in every other sense of the word. He has sent our young members of the military to Iraq where they are dying daily for NO REASON. If anyone connected to his administration or to his party disagrees with him or doesn't toe the line, he destroys them. He is an EVIL man and I can understand why Judy feels that way.

(I highlighted the part I love the most)

Take note, I think to say he is comparable to Hitler, currently, is rediculous, but I made no arguements when it was said that he had the potential to be another Hitler... a LOT of men have that potential.

What I find astounding, is that you consider the man in control of our country to be EVIL, and a Dictator, and comparable to Hitler... and you want to give him more powers, which HE is requesting, which will be very useful in oppression of our own citizens.

Oh come on Don. How in the hell do you "enforce the laws we already have" when you have millions of people with fake ID's foisting them on dull-witted public servants at the DMV and other places? Please explain your plan to enforce the law when all ID's can be easily faked with a scanner, photoshop and a color printer? I have all three of those things and if you'd care for me to illustrate, I will. I will scan my SS card, put a different name and number on it and post it here. It'd take TOPS five minutes

Thank you, BobC. Obviously, you have some sense. We MUST have ID's that cannot be counterfeited in order to enforce ANY laws. Frankly, I have NOTHING to hide so, if all of my information is entered in a central database, I have no problem with that. If it will help protect my country, I will do whatever it takes. That does NOTHING to change my opinion that our President is EVIL. I stand by the statement.

They apprehend, and identify, thousands of illegals every week... only to release them back into our society. We have even had articles on this site demonstrating cases of illegals who were identified as such, and were not deported even after serving time in prisons. They REFUSE to prosecute employers who KNOWINGLY violate federal law by hiring illegal aliens.

They REFUSE to deal with the problem.. identifying aliens is not the problem.. getting rid of them once they are identified is the problem. The Govt will do nothing now with the ones it identifies as illegal (or only a VERY small number of them) so what is the point of the ID? So we can identify MORE people we are going to do nothing about?

A good START would be to stop releasing aliens back into our country, and to start prosecuting employers.

I ask the question once more.. which has been ignored every time I ask, so I really expect no answer now...

HOW WILL REALID HELP, WHEN THE GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO DEPORT ALIENS IT IDENTIFIES?

(A tip on identifying an illegal alien.. if he cannot speak ENGLISH it is a pretty good indicator that ya may wanna look closer)

Originally Posted by Bootsie

We MUST have ID's that cannot be counterfeited in order to enforce ANY laws.

Makes one wonder how any laws were ever enforced in history until now, huh?

Originally Posted by BobC

Oh come on Don. How in the hell do you "enforce the laws we already have" when you have millions of people with fake ID's foisting them on dull-witted public servants at the DMV and other places? Please explain your plan to enforce the law when all ID's can be easily faked with a scanner, photoshop and a color printer? I have all three of those things and if you'd care for me to illustrate, I will. I will scan my SS card, put a different name and number on it and post it here. It'd take TOPS five minutes

ALL Id's can be faked with those items? You could hardly fake my drivers license with those things. It is a plastic sheet with basically a satin finish photo, which will smudge and get messed up badly if you attempt to alter it, and which has holographic embossed words on it which only appear when held in light in the proper angle. I would love for someone to show me a fake Missouri Drivers License that I could not tell was fake in two seconds.

As for faking birth certificates and SS cards.. sure it CAN be done.. but faking those is all anyone will have to do to get a RealID too.

When the RealID came out, I supported it because I thought it was for non-citizens who were here on work visas...legal immigrants. I didn't realize it was for citizens.

I support a non-counterfeit id for legal immigrants if such a thing exists or can be produced--these people need something to prove they are legal immigrants here are work visas. I oppose National ID for American Citizens.

Good God. Are you telling me that if I snuck across that border and presented a Fake plastic ID to the HR at Taco Cabana, that they'd give a damn whether there was a hologram signature? Half the people doing the hiring are halfwits who could care less. I was talking to my doorman friend at a bar in Austin a few weeks back when 4 non-English speaking, four foot tall Mexicans came parading in, and every single one of them had a different ID. They were all plastic too, Don! I asked the doorman if those were Matricula Consular cards, and he said "what's a Matricula Consular?" But every one of those guys got in!

Yes illegals are identified every day but only when employers or law enforcement show the INITIATIVE to investigate the ID or SS number--most don't bother. They are required by Law to see an SS card--they ARE NOT required by Law to verify the authenticity of the card they are holding.

DQ, Judy, Bootsie, and BobC:

I have removed the wording from each of your posts that are slightly derrogatory towards each other. Please help us elevate the tone and please to not print anything that is a negative comment or could be considered negative about other users.

Thanks,

W