Is this a Left wing web forum?

[biogrl]

USA42 drank the cool-aid folks-have some pity. It may take 20 years to detox. The idea that someone must absolutely worship G.W. in spite of his utter failure to lead this nation and protect us is absurd and sad. In any case, it just reinforces the fact that many of us have been divided and brainwashed by the corporate intersests in the country who have their way while we are all busy calling eachother liberals/conservatives. We are AMERICANS. I for one will never lump my fellow americans into a fake label again.

[VOATNOW1]

STOP with the Bush bashing or I'm gone.

Is that you Jim?

[USA2]

I think our activists need to show this new guy/girl some of the Bush gems from our archives.

Here is some reading you might want to look into. It might help you understand what Bush is doing to our country by not doing his job or honoring his oath of office to enforce our existing laws.

W

The Bush Collection
http://www.alipac.us/article-topic-21.html

STOP with the Bush bashing or I'm gone.
If you want people on this forum with solutions, dragging up history will not solve the future. We new solutions with actions.
He is acting and it's a start.

OMG, do I know you from another forum?

Islamicity.com maybe?

[CountFloyd]

He is acting and it's a start.

Well, you're right about that.

He is acting, it's just that he's not very good at it.

[WavTek]

This is an issue for the legal American public to stand up and say, we've had enough. The enough is about those who HIRE illegals.

You're right, and that's exactly what we're doing, because we have had enough.

Why do you think the people who hire illegal aliens, do it?

I'll tell you why, because we have a President and Congress who have turned a blind eye to illegality and the businesses know they can get away with it.

Any recent enforcement by our President has come only becuase he has finally realized that his base is leaving him and we intend to vote them out of office, come November.

[CrocketsGhost]

I understand DXD, but the spine comment does come close to violating our rules and even I have to restrain myself at times when debating with others.

I know I provided a bad example by telling USA2 to let the door hit him on the butt on the way out and I apologize.

I guess my point is that even those that disagree with us need maximum respect even in very bad cases where they act up and treat us poorly.

I need to practice what I preach, even when my frustration and fatigue level is high.

I hope I can count on you to help me remember that when needed.

A lot of people still respect Bush and respect the office of the President and that is understandable. We all must remember that a lot of people have not exposed themselves to the facts we confront.

Different people are in different places along the path of understanding.

You know that I believe this Congress has to stand up to Bush and demand he do his job, yet you do not see a call for impeachment from me or ALIPAC as an organization out of consideration for those that still hope Bush will come to his senses on this.

W

This reply is both to you and to dxd.

First off, it is not a matter of respect for this President, at least as a person. As a person, this President lost my respect long ago. I do, however, respect the laws of this nation and the offices of this nation, however badly they are being served. My entire point was that the founding fathers' intent as regards impeachment is fairly clear. The process is meant for high crimes and misdemeanors. History has given us a pretty good indication of what that means, and extraordinarily poor judgment or taking actions with which about half of Congress agree isn't even in the ballpark. The impeachment of Clinton was pretty much ridiculous as well and on many levels. First off, while the President should be held to the highest of standards, few people are tried for perjury. However, once the articles were drawn up and the President was tried, the trial should have been by the book. That Clinton perjured himself is beyond question, and he even admitted to being less than honest in his testimony later. Even so, the political nature of impeachment prevented his conviction. How on Earth anyone figures that a President whose immigration policies already have the support of half the Senate could be convicted for those policies as a criminal act by that same Senate is entirely beyond me.

Now, I would like to state that I do not appreciate being bashed. I have been accused of providing misleading information when I have done nothing of the sort. Anyone with a solid junior high school education knows that impeachment cases are tried in the Senate. My statement was that under the current circumstances there was not the slightest chance that the Senate would convict this Presiden on charges related to the immigration debacle. I doubt that the House would ever issue articles of impeachment either, but that is a separate issue from the one I was addressing.

I also do not appreciate partisan attacks against myself, given that I deplore both parties almost equally, and have made this clear from the git go. It appears to ruffle feathers when I bring up the fact that Clinton opened the door and that his fellow Democrats have been at the forefront of putting out the welcome mat in places like California and Texas and preventing meaningful immigration reform in Congress. If the Republicans in Congress are less culpable, it is only slightly less so, though, as I have previously mentioned, I have to give my own Republican congressman, Jeb Hensarling, pretty high marks for standing tough on this issue in the House.

DXD, you appear to be a regular here and I am a newcomer, but I would suggest that it is not me who is pigeonholing you as a harsh partisan, but rather your own use of terms like "brain dead bush worshipper or cult-like R's." This does not serve the cause of unity on this issue or on any issue. I will repeat, this is not a partisan issue, unless the People are a party and the government (both the GOP and the Dems) is the other.

How much traction do you think this group or any other is going to get by making untenable threats such as impeachment to a Republican majority? I'll give you a little tip. I have worked with a number of politicians over the years, and they don't even bother listening to those they know are not going to vote for them under any circumstances. They are all about winning elections. If they think that you will vote for them, they may or may not listen to you. If they know you have voted for them and will no longer vote for them over a given issue, they are more likely to listen to you. If they think that you will no longer vote for them and have the influence to get many others who formerly voted for them to do the same, they will definitely listen to you and may even meet with you. This is the sort of pressure that a group like ALIPAC needs to apply. Republican senators don't pay any attention to threatening missives from the Democratic Underground, and Democrat senators don't pay attention to threats to unseat them from Limbaugh ditto-heads.

But again, if anything, this thread has served a purpose because it has pointed out some issues that ALIPAC probably needs to address if it is to retain a broad base of support. I know many terrific allies in this fight who would instantly turned off by the exchanges in this thread. I provide this commentary as constructive criticism and nothing more.

[USA2]

STOP with the Bush bashing or I'm gone.

Is that you Jim?

D?

[dman1200]

I am new here and my observation is that it seems to just be a Bush bashing site. Is it?

I thought Bush was always a left winger. Seriously, what has he done to prove himself to be a right winger? He's buddy buddy with the Clintons and Ted Kennedy. That should tell you all you need to know about Bush. He's no friend of the conservatives and he's no friend of ours.

[USA2]

USA42 drank the cool-aid folks-have some pity. It may take 20 years to detox. The idea that someone must absolutely worship G.W. in spite of his utter failure to lead this nation and protect us is absurd and sad. In any case, it just reinforces the fact that many of us have been divided and brainwashed by the corporate intersests in the country who have their way while we are all busy calling eachother liberals/conservatives. We are AMERICANS. I for one will never lump my fellow americans into a fake label again.

You have no idea so, stop acting like you do. You are just blinded that's all. Let's hope you don't let that blind you with this effort too.

[CrocketsGhost]

I am new here and my observation is that it seems to just be a Bush bashing site. Is it?

I thought Bush was always a left winger. Seriously, what has he done to prove himself to be a right winger? He's buddy buddy with the Clintons and Ted Kennedy. That should tell you all you need to know about Bush. He's no friend of the conservatives and he's no friend of ours.

Now there's a good point. This President has yet to find a socialist federal policy he won't sign off on. The term "fiscal responsibility" is not even in his lexicon. As best I can tell, his only "conservative" credentials are that he is (selectively) a hawk and opposes gay marriage.