Thread: Legal immigration

Honoring Our Immigration and Other Traditions

Some Americans for varying reasons are quite emotionally tied to the heritage of their immigrant ancestors and find the idea of reducing immigration numbers to be something of an assault on the honor of their families. Most Americans are proud of much of their country's immigration tradition. We are, too. That is why NumbersUSA recommends continuing this nation's very high traditional immigration average of 200,000 to 250,000 per year.

But since 1990, the numbers have averaged far higher -- around ONE MILLION per year. That is why these two prestigious national commissions have recommended reductions in the numbers. It is not that they rejected our immigration tradition but suggested that Congress put immigration numbers back more in line with that tradition.

The numbers have to come down to respect not only our immigration tradition but also others of this nation's deeply imbedded traditions:

tradition of individual liberty (overpopulation creates pressures for more and more regulation, restrictions and regimentation);
tradition of easy access to open spaces (overpopulation congests transportation, drives urban sprawl that devours thousands of square miles of rural land each year, and crowds out esthetic satisfaction with too many people seeking refuge in dwindling open spaces near population centers)
tradition of a life of dignity for all who work hard and play by the rules (mass importation of foreign labor depresses wages and puts the American dream of home ownership out of reach for too many workers)
Consider this testimony by Barbara Jordan before a joint House and Senate committee hearing June 28, 1995:

"Legal immigration ... has costs, as well as benefits. Immigrants with relatively low education and skills may compete for jobs and public services with the most vulnerable of Americans, particularly those who are unemployed or underemployed. Jobs generated by immigrant businesses do not always addresss this problem. Concentrated and/or rapid entry of immigrants into a locality may impose immediate net costs, particularly in education, where expenditures are required to meet the additional and special needs of newcomers. Concentration of new immigrants can exacerbate tensions among ethnic groups. ... Unless there is a compelling national interest to do otherwise, immigrants should be chosen on the basis of the skills they contribute to the U.S. economy."

This nation has a lot of wonderful traditions, such as the rule of law. It is extremely important that we do not confuse higher and higher volumes of immigration with our nation's immigration tradition. And it is especially important that confusion not undermine our many other positive traditions.

The above was taken from Numbers USA. There are literally billions of people that want to come to this country for a better way of life. The numbers of legal immigrants is already too high. We simply cannot continue to increase our population year after year at the current rate. Our resources can only handle so many.

Originally Posted by ChromeDome

America's work visa system is a joke.I don't blame the whole world for wanting to come here on a "temporary" work visa but the sad truth is that it is often said that there is nothing more permanent than a temporary worker on a HB1 visa.Greedy corporations pretend that there are no qualified American workers so that foreign workers can be imported to work at lower wages.Often the American worker is required to train the HB1 worker to do his job then the American is laid off.This is a rotten system and is not fair to American college educated people that are now seeing their high paid technical jobs disappear overseas or go to "temporary" HB1 visa workers.The unfairness extends to the visa holder that is exploited at a lower wage and many think that as a HB1 visa holder there is a quicker pathway to citizenship.These visas are supposed to be for temporary workers that will go home at the expiry date.I doubt that very many actually do.As we know the government is seeking the 600,000 or so that they KNOW are overstayers.

This visa system is a joke. My father worked for RIM (The makers of the Blackberry), and he got laid off just so some Asian's on a work visa would do his job for cheaper. I mean this happened in Canada, but the same stuff is going on down here in reference to the work visa's.

As posted above in an earlier reply.... Yes the USCIS should process immigration cases faster, but they should also look more carefully into the cases their working with. Just before the filing fee's increased many people got magically married and applied for a green card. Yet these people are getting their green cards. It's pretty obvious they only married the person for their papers, not because of love. How did that Cuban woman marry 10 guys so they could get their green cards? The USCIS needs to be majorly fixed.

Originally Posted by NikeshRam

While illegal immigration is an important topic, legal immigration should be an equally important topic. Most candidates [1] are thinking of legalizing illegal immigration.

I have been in this country for about 10 years now and have only lately decided to immigrate to this country. However, there has been significant backlogs in the legal immigration process. Should I have to wait another 10 years before I become a legal immigrant? I like the American way of life and the technological advances that have been made here. But with the way USCIS is structured and given the backlogs, it looks like legal immigration is all but a distant dream. In this global free-trade world, America looks less attractive than other western countries for people like me who are considering immigrating.

I am not necessarily against illegal immigration, however, I feel that it is unfair to let the illegal immigrants in when the legal immigrants clearly have vested interest in making this country successful. Some accuse temporary workers of bringing the job wages down. In my case this has not been true and I have been treated fairly in every which way from the time I came to work in this country. I can only think of positives as far as legal immigration is concerned. The legal immigrants have the potential to buy more houses and boost the already downed economy. Furthermore, well-to-do legal immigrants tend to retire in their country, thus not further burdening the already stretched social security and medicare systems. It appears to be a win-win situation, however, some key Americans or American governmental institutions appear to turn a blind eye with regards to the troubles that the current legal immigration system is encountering. And most legal immigrants have a hard time understanding the politics behind this.

Having lived in the country for about 10 years, I feel as strongly about where the country is going just like any other American. I dislike the war. I donate my clothes to orphanages in my local community. I celebrate Christmas (even though my religion is different). I have tried to voice my concerns about the state of the local roads. I could go on. I love America for what it provides. However, as far as legal immigration is concerned, all I can see in the near future is just hopelessness.

Maybe the only way that we can get our message heard is by staging rallies just like the illegal immigrants did to get the public to wake up to what we are going through.

I tend not to post messages on boards typically, but on this boring Saturday morning, I thought I should voice my opinion for whatever it's worth. All I ask is to give us some hope. Throw us a bone so we can get on with our lives. I am sure that most legal immigrants will repay it in one way or another to make the country successful as it's clearly in their vested interest to do so.

Nikesh

[1] http://politics.nytimes.com/election-gu ... mmigration

Let's be blunt. I blame the legal immigrant community for allowing the media and special interests to intertwine legal and illegal immigration. We have twelve million louder and unjustified voices intermingled with a just crowd.

Groups like La Raza knew what they were doing with they want to talk about immigration and not illegal immigration. They know Americans are for legal immigration and against illegal immigration. So, what did they did they do?

Although I have much sympathy for you personally, we wouldn't be having this conversation if legal immigrants stood up and said, "Wait just one #$X@ minute. We entered legally. We're waiting in line. Our families are still in our home countries. We've learned your language, played by your rules, wait 10 years for documentation and yet your sympathy is with illegal immigrants who show no regard for your rules.

I bet most legal immigrants will be voting democratic in a show of solidarity with illegal immigration, in hopes there will be crumbs for them if their is cake for illegal immigrants.

If you tie yourselves together, you'll drown together. Not only in the immigration debate as Americans get angrier and angrier with each march, each demand, and each time groups like La Raza are invited to help us plan our immigration policy.

But, you'll also drown as more Americans UNFAIRLY become biased against immigrants in general creating an environment of us versus them.

If we send 12 million illegal immigrants home, I guarantee you there should be room for legal immigrants. But, if legal immigrants won't stand up and say, we deserve to be here and they don't...oh well.

As for should you have to wait 10 years. Guess what. If you want to be a citizen of a country, you should be willing to do whatever they ask you to do. (temporarily baffled)

I don't know where you're from, but I promise you if I decide to immigrate there, I'll expect to do what your country asks me to do. I may be frustrated, I may get mad...but I still won't be surprised that they have a process that I'm expected to follow. And, buddy if I want it bad enough, I'll follow it.

And, the process does add value. What would citizenship be worth, if it could be bought and traded for nickels and dimes? Not a thing...

ymeoru - I came here legally got separated from my parents, and I'm screaming bloody murder here in Miami. Everyone cares about the hispanics being illegal here. No one cares about how I came here legally and am being screwed over. I wrote and called up CNN, FOX, and all my local news stations about it. No one bothered to e-mail me, or call me back. It's sickening how everyone cares about these ignorant rude hispanics who are here in Miami. I came here, learned all your measurements, how to talk properly down here, and etc.... Any-who no one will listen to a legal immigrant down in Miami. If you're not hispanic you have no hope in hell to do anything down here. I'd move, but I can't because of immigration.

Originally Posted by RealID

NikeshRam,

Sorry got two posts confused, guess its time to get some sleep.

But I still feel that you really are conflicted about citizenship.

Once again I apologize for my misstep.

Yes, that made no sense -- thank you. I am 31 years old for your information and you appear to have gotten almost every supposition wrong in the previous post.

No I am not vying for citizenship, not yet. Just permanent residency, that is, a green card. The same thing that the illegal immigrants are vying for. However, the two are clearly not related.

Originally Posted by ymeoru

Let's be blunt. I blame the legal immigrant community for allowing the media and special interests to intertwine legal and illegal immigration. We have twelve million louder and unjustified voices intermingled with a just crowd.

Groups like La Raza knew what they were doing with they want to talk about immigration and not illegal immigration. They know Americans are for legal immigration and against illegal immigration. So, what did they did they do?

Although I have much sympathy for you personally, we wouldn't be having this conversation if legal immigrants stood up and said, "Wait just one #$X@ minute. We entered legally. We're waiting in line. Our families are still in our home countries. We've learned your language, played by your rules, wait 10 years for documentation and yet your sympathy is with illegal immigrants who show no regard for your rules.

Part of the problem with that is that most legal residents who have applied for permanent residency are busy doing their jobs and tending to their families. They entrust the lawyers, the system and time to take care of this.

The lawyers (whom the companies we work for sponsor) are our faces as we do not have the time or money or energy to stage rallies (this at least applies to most people from my country who are here).

Originally Posted by ymeoru

As for should you have to wait 10 years. Guess what. If you want to be a citizen of a country, you should be willing to do whatever they ask you to do. (temporarily baffled)

I don't know where you're from, but I promise you if I decide to immigrate there, I'll expect to do what your country asks me to do. I may be frustrated, I may get mad...but I still won't be surprised that they have a process that I'm expected to follow. And, buddy if I want it bad enough, I'll follow it.

And, the process does add value. What would citizenship be worth, if it could be bought and traded for nickels and dimes? Not a thing...

Wait, I am not yet looking for citizenship. I am more than glad to wait for the required wait time to become a citizen. But to become a citizen, I first have to become a permanent resident -- a green card holder. The wait for which is itself long, really long due to backlogs and an antiquated system.

Originally Posted by NikeshRam

Originally Posted by ymeoru

Originally Posted by NikeshRam

While illegal immigration is an important topic, legal immigration should be an equally important topic. Most candidates [1] are thinking of legalizing illegal immigration.

I have been in this country for about 10 years now and have only lately decided to immigrate to this country. However, there has been significant backlogs in the legal immigration process. Should I have to wait another 10 years before I become a legal immigrant? I like the American way of life and the technological advances that have been made here. But with the way USCIS is structured and given the backlogs, it looks like legal immigration is all but a distant dream. In this global free-trade world, America looks less attractive than other western countries for people like me who are considering immigrating.

I am not necessarily against illegal immigration, however, I feel that it is unfair to let the illegal immigrants in when the legal immigrants clearly have vested interest in making this country successful. Some accuse temporary workers of bringing the job wages down. In my case this has not been true and I have been treated fairly in every which way from the time I came to work in this country. I can only think of positives as far as legal immigration is concerned. The legal immigrants have the potential to buy more houses and boost the already downed economy. Furthermore, well-to-do legal immigrants tend to retire in their country, thus not further burdening the already stretched social security and medicare systems. It appears to be a win-win situation, however, some key Americans or American governmental institutions appear to turn a blind eye with regards to the troubles that the current legal immigration system is encountering. And most legal immigrants have a hard time understanding the politics behind this.

Having lived in the country for about 10 years, I feel as strongly about where the country is going just like any other American. I dislike the war. I donate my clothes to orphanages in my local community. I celebrate Christmas (even though my religion is different). I have tried to voice my concerns about the state of the local roads. I could go on. I love America for what it provides. However, as far as legal immigration is concerned, all I can see in the near future is just hopelessness.

Maybe the only way that we can get our message heard is by staging rallies just like the illegal immigrants did to get the public to wake up to what we are going through.

I tend not to post messages on boards typically, but on this boring Saturday morning, I thought I should voice my opinion for whatever it's worth. All I ask is to give us some hope. Throw us a bone so we can get on with our lives. I am sure that most legal immigrants will repay it in one way or another to make the country successful as it's clearly in their vested interest to do so.

Nikesh

[1] http://politics.nytimes.com/election-gu ... mmigration

Let's be blunt. I blame the legal immigrant community for allowing the media and special interests to intertwine legal and illegal immigration. We have twelve million louder and unjustified voices intermingled with a just crowd.

Groups like La Raza knew what they were doing with they want to talk about immigration and not illegal immigration. They know Americans are for legal immigration and against illegal immigration. So, what did they did they do?

Although I have much sympathy for you personally, we wouldn't be having this conversation if legal immigrants stood up and said, "Wait just one #$X@ minute. We entered legally. We're waiting in line. Our families are still in our home countries. We've learned your language, played by your rules, wait 10 years for documentation and yet your sympathy is with illegal immigrants who show no regard for your rules.

I bet most legal immigrants will be voting democratic in a show of solidarity with illegal immigration, in hopes there will be crumbs for them if their is cake for illegal immigrants.

If you tie yourselves together, you'll drown together. Not only in the immigration debate as Americans get angrier and angrier with each march, each demand, and each time groups like La Raza are invited to help us plan our immigration policy.

But, you'll also drown as more Americans UNFAIRLY become biased against immigrants in general creating an environment of us versus them.

If we send 12 million illegal immigrants home, I guarantee you there should be room for legal immigrants. But, if legal immigrants won't stand up and say, we deserve to be here and they don't...oh well.

As for should you have to wait 10 years. Guess what. If you want to be a citizen of a country, you should be willing to do whatever they ask you to do. (temporarily baffled)

I don't know where you're from, but I promise you if I decide to immigrate there, I'll expect to do what your country asks me to do. I may be frustrated, I may get mad...but I still won't be surprised that they have a process that I'm expected to follow. And, buddy if I want it bad enough, I'll follow it.

And, the process does add value. What would citizenship be worth, if it could be bought and traded for nickels and dimes? Not a thing...

Wait, I am not yet looking for citizenship. I am more than glad to wait for the required wait time to become a citizen. But to become a citizen, I first have to become a permanent resident -- a green card holder. The wait for which is itself long, really long due to backlogs and an antiquated system.

IMO, the "antiquated system" sometimes does a good job.

Re:

Wait, I am not yet looking for citizenship. I am more than glad to wait for the required wait time to become a citizen. But to become a citizen, I first have to become a permanent resident -- a green card holder. The wait for which is itself long, really long due to backlogs and an antiquated system.

Maybe the system is working as intended... maybe it's a long wait in order to weed out those that would just come and stay here for a job vs. those that actually want to become citizens?

nikeshram

Our government is using its power and might and the threat of withholding confiscated taxpayer funds to make sure most of our children do not get the education needed to get a job.

Yes, Americans are being denied jobs in all sectors because they are not quite the 'bargain' of foreign workers - legal or illegal. That isn't right.

Everyone here, had ancestors who immigrated here - even the American Indians, we are learning.

That is so immaterial. We did a lot of things in the past in this country we no longer do and we can no longer afford to do. That's true of all countries. That's why we can change our laws and our policies - to fit the times. The founding fathers knew this.

Not many places on the planet are still occupied by the same people who originally inhabited it. Almost everyone migrated from somewhere.

We have a country here that was built - not because of immigrants. But because those immigrants became Americans. It wasn't built just because we fought some wars, or some big thing. It evolved because the Americans here, whether they came last year or their ancestors were on the Mayflower, because they respected this country and wanted it to grow and to work. They liked the idea of freedom. They worked within our rule of law. They wanted to leave something for their children and grandchildren - not just material things but the opportunity to grow and be free.

Sadly, I don't see many people - speaking of those things. They talk of coming for work, to make money. America is much more than that - at least to me. America was great when many of us were living in sod huts or log cabins. America was great when many took to the road because of the great depression. America was great in adversity - not just in prosperity.

I get a lump in my throat when I see our flag - and when I hear our national anthem. The fact that that flag was used when we fought wars is only part of it. It is the fact our flag has been a symbol of freedom. It represents the millions of hardworking Americans who lived, worked and died with no estate, but they had done their part to cherish, maintain and sustain the freedom that was America.

It's not all about money.

I'm sorry, but after reading through this entire thread I'm forced to call a TROLL ALERT on Nikeshram!

He's obviously here to shake ALIPAC up with the concept that the United States owes him permanent residency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if he thinks the right for permanent residency was automatically inferred when he was issued a guest-worker visa. Are we obligated to allow all guest-workers permanent residency and future citizenship simply because they came here to work? Remember, the majority of guest-workers currently residing in the U.S. were brought here in order to cut labor cost for corporations. Why pay an American software engineer $65,000 a year when you can import someone from, let's say India, to do the job for $35,000 a year? I would suggest that there is no shortage of skilled labor in the U.S., just "cheaper" labor.

TROLL ALERT!