Thread: Lou Dobbs sounds off on REAL ID today

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by chloe24

I too was once for the I.D. card. But not anymore!

It's the old Problem - Reaction - Solution ploy.


Problem: Illegal alien invasion (By non-enforcement of our laws)

Reaction: Citizen protests

Solution: National I.D. Cards


The positive responses for an ID card is EXACTLY what they want. I've discovered that's how things work. It's such a sinister, yet very clever psychological game they perpetrate on us. They don't force major changes on the population. They actually get us to WANT IT!

Let me ask you all a question - Can anyone here state with full confidence, that you completely TRUST our government? Can you say with full confidence that you completely TRUST them to protect us? That anything they do is for OUR BEST INTEREST? Do you believe what Homeland Security tells us?? Think about it.

Chloe,

The thing is that our American form of governance is not supposed to require us to "trust" the government. America's original design places the highest power of governance in the hands of the American public.

That is no longer the case and the price tag on public office is so far beyond average America that we have been dispossessed of representation that has been bought by the special interests (some foreign).

In our diminished power condition, we the citizens like to think we can "trust" the government to do the right thing since we have no control or oversight of our government and the corporate media is locked down or asleep at the wheel.

Ok folks, let's make two lists.

On one list, let's put the things we feel the Federal govt is doing a good job on right now with our money that has a direct positive impact for us.

On the other list, let's put things where they are dropping the ball.

W

I was trying to find some good things the Fed's are doing with our money and I couldn't think of one thing. Can anyone think of one thing?

I would say the Fed's have dropped the ball every time they touch it.

I want less Government and I want them to leave me alone with my money.

If they can track every move I make why can't they find Osama Binladin?

I've posted this excerpt here a few times from IT Security Specialist Bruce Schneier's blog. The simple fact is that any system can be abused, hacked, or subverted, and the REAL ID will be no exception.

Also, considering that the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 was passed and ordered stronger security measures for driver licenses, the argument for the REAL ID grows weaker still.

I am certainly against illegal aliens having driver licenses or voting in our elections, but the REAL ID just has too much potential for abuse and harm - too much collateral damage - for me to support it.

The REAL ID Act requires driver's licenses to include a "common machine-readable technology." This will, of course, make identity theft easier. Assume that this information will be collected by bars and other businesses, and that it will be resold to companies like ChoicePoint and Acxiom. It actually doesn't matter how well the states and federal government protect the data on driver's licenses, as there will be parallel commercial databases with the same information.

Even worse, the same specification for RFID chips embedded in passports includes details about embedding RFID chips in driver's licenses. I expect the federal government will require states to do this, with all of the associated security problems (e.g., surreptitious access).

REAL ID requires that driver's licenses contain actual addresses, and no post office boxes. There are no exceptions made for judges or police -- even undercover police officers. This seems like a major unnecessary security risk.

REAL ID also prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens. This makes no sense, and will only result in these illegal aliens driving without licenses -- which isn't going to help anyone's security. (This is an interesting insecurity, and is a direct result of trying to take a document that is a specific permission to drive an automobile, and turning it into a general identification device.)

REAL ID is expensive. It's an unfunded mandate: the federal government is forcing the states to spend their own money to comply with the act. I've seen estimates that the cost to the states of complying with REAL ID will be $120 million. That's $120 million that can't be spent on actual security.

And the wackiest thing is that none of this is required. In October 2004, the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 was signed into law. That law included stronger security measures for driver's licenses, the security measures recommended by the 9/11 Commission Report. That's already done. It's already law.

REAL ID goes way beyond that. It's a huge power-grab by the federal government over the states' systems for issuing driver's licenses.

...

Near as I can tell, this whole thing is being pushed by Wisconsin Rep. Sensenbrenner primarily as an anti-immigration measure. The huge insecurities this will cause to everyone else in the United States seem to be collateral damage.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... al_id.html

Yeah!! William saved the day!!!! I knew there was something fishy going on with those two. Glad to hear that they are now exposed! Alright now let's get back to fight'n!!

William, I am over joyed to see you take this position on the real ID.

This government could care less about cracking down on illegal immigration. They have tried several times to get such a system implemented and always failed. They just found a new reason to try to justify it, and I was afraid you were falling for it.

I do not want to sacrifice my privacy, liberty and freedom for any cause.

PS: I am sending you another donation just because of what you wrote. You're my hero of the day, and I am honored to be able to help your cause.

Originally Posted by Dolly3275

There is NOTHING from a credible, reliable, qualified source/article indicating that they are going to use a chip.

.

There is also nothing from a credible, reliable, qualified source indicating that this plan will even work.

Thanks everyone. We have had a problem with a few people over the last few months that cannot disagree on an issue or about a candidate without getting evil with others.

To have a successful organization, we all need to keep the main objectives in mind.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by chloe24

I too was once for the I.D. card. But not anymore!

It's the old Problem - Reaction - Solution ploy.


Problem: Illegal alien invasion (By non-enforcement of our laws)

Reaction: Citizen protests

Solution: National I.D. Cards


The positive responses for an ID card is EXACTLY what they want. I've discovered that's how things work. It's such a sinister, yet very clever psychological game they perpetrate on us. They don't force major changes on the population. They actually get us to WANT IT!

Let me ask you all a question - Can anyone here state with full confidence, that you completely TRUST our government? Can you say with full confidence that you completely TRUST them to protect us? That anything they do is for OUR BEST INTEREST? Do you believe what Homeland Security tells us?? Think about it.

Chloe,

The thing is that our American form of governance is not supposed to require us to "trust" the government. America's original design places the highest power of governance in the hands of the American public.

That is no longer the case and the price tag on public office is so far beyond average America that we have been dispossessed of representation that has been bought by the special interests (some foreign).

In our diminished power condition, we the citizens like to think we can "trust" the government to do the right thing since we have no control or oversight of our government and the corporate media is locked down or asleep at the wheel.

Ok folks, let's make two lists.

On one list, let's put the things we feel the Federal govt is doing a good job on right now with our money that has a direct positive impact for us.

On the other list, let's put things where they are dropping the ball.

W

I agree with you 100% William. I, like many other Americans were completely ignorant about the role of government . I believe our educational system is partly to blame as well. They want us to remain completely ignorant and dependent!

I encourage people to either purchase or borrow from the library the books of Judge Andrew Napolitano:

1. The Constitution in Exile: How the Federal Government Has Seized Power by Rewriting the Supreme Law of the Land.

2. Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks Its Own Laws.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/00 ... %2C+andrew

Judge Napolitano was the first one to wake me up when he said that our founders warned us NEVER to trust the government! It's time we really start educating ourselves about our rights and our Constitution. These books were written with the general public in mind.

As far as making a list of what I feel the government is doing right, I'm afraid I can't come up with ANYTHING! Pretty pathetic, isn't it??

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 9, 2005

HR 418- A National ID Bill Masquerading as Immigration Reform

Mr. Speaker:

I rise in strong opposition to HR 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.

What is wrong with this bill?

The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.

Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.

Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that “the federal government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver’s licenses.â€

I most certainly agree. I still think it is a mistake that he will not be our president.

I couldn't agree with you more agrneydgrl! I know I would feel saver with him in the White House over any other canidate running!!