Thread: Mexican National Anthem

When people are led by emotions, such as pride or fear, or whatever, according to Plato, things go haywire. I am sure that ALIPAC has members who have sound ideas instead of wasting their energy debating whether Mexico's National Anthem is so and so.--Meaningless

Are you saying that pride in one's country is a bad thing? Or the fear of a declining standard of living? Or is it American Pride or American fear that is bad? I noticed about a million criminals in the streets on Monday with plenty of pride in THEIR countries, although I can't figure out WHAT they could possibly be proud of. They also seem to fear HR4437. Is that pride and fear also bad?

Uhm, I am not in the mood to talk philosophy this morning--I'll be taking a final about Plato in a couple of hours... ugh. Basically, I was referring to the pride/fear of existing/not-existing. The fear of being extinguished... and the like. Meantime, I'd like you to please respond to the other post I made. Maybe I can learn something new I did not know about.

I'm sorry. I don't find anything in your other post to respond to. The Spanish version of the National Anthem is a sick piece of work produced by an Englishman who is a permanent resident ALIEN, not a U.S. Citizen. As for the performers, not one of them in my opinion is even worth listening to. I can assure you that they, and the labels they represent, will not be getting one DIME of my money.

Jose, let me mention to you that, though I've never met you - I want you to know that you are VALUED! I'm sure that what I'm saying here is a reflection of what others here on ALIPAC feel and believe. Though we are angered by the lawlessness of those who have broken our immigration law and now make demands and threaten takeover of entire states to form a nation called Aztlan and ALL that truly irritating drivel -

Rest assured that I, for one, appreciate that you are here - that you seek to understand the whole story from our perspective - and that you honestly appear to care.

It is the likes of you who tend to eventually become peacemakers between two sides who are quarreling, both sides at the brim of anger and incitement of hatred - yet one who attempts to keep a cool head amongst all the torment is he who leads all to triumph in the end.

In this day and age, we as a society have difficulty telling someone they are loved for fear that it will be taken in the wrong way. We have a disgraceful mentality amongst so many these days, but the inability to tell someone they are loved is some of what has gotten us into some pretty hot water the world over.

You need to put this into context of the discussion here - and accept that you are loved and valued here!

I agree that the comments about the Mexican anthem above were out of line, and I apologize to you for it even though I wasn't the one who said it.

The sentiments are running deep and the melting pot is going to boil over for many if it isn't removed from the heat for a bit to cool down. The key fact remains, however...

Every nation has laws set forth either by a dictatorial governing power or, as in our case, agreed upon and set forth by a government which was created by the people. Though today's government is quite a ways off kilter, it hasn't always been like this. But our people, like people in any other nation, desire for their laws to be respected and adhered to whether they seem right at the time or not.

And contrary to what some believe, no nation can take in the entire world and have enough space and resources for everyone - as much as people may wish it were so. Our immigration laws were meant to be in the best interest of the land upon which we live, the resources we all rely upon, and the people who desire to live out their lives without being over-run or crowded. When millions upon millions decide there shouldn't be a border and storm a country against the immigration laws - everyone loses. Those who built the nation as well as those who entered hoping for a better life.

What people are angry about is this... our nation and it's bounty exists because of laws which encourage love, harmony, limitations and - most importantly - order. No nation or any desirable life can be had in a nation without law and order. Those who seem to have deep regrets over loss of portions of the U.S. back during the Mexican-American war don't stop to realize that they themselves would be responsible for destroying what it is they desire to obtain through force and militant behavior.

For the betterment of those this nation is capable of supporting and providing a fair and decent life, it most certainly is the obligation of all settlers from the past and even the most recent immigrants who choose law and order over anarchy and chaos to fight tooth and nail to preserve the statehood of the United States of America.

The offending remarks from brother against brother and sister against sister really should be be squelched. It's those who seek to overthrow and destroy who are in need severe and drastic attention.

God bless and keep!!

Kurt

Oblivion -
I kinda feel like John Kerry, flip-flopping. These guys here (the ones NOT taking pop-shots) make valid points, but I also have compassion for the illegals, they are MEN providing for their families after all.

And as I've stated, before, I have been raised like so: break a law,pay a fine, move on. Can we MASS deport 8-20 million, sure but at what expense? Ticking off us Hispanic Citizens whom are gonna have their illegal buddies ripped from our streets. Not quite the American way, but then again I dont know what would be the American way of dealing with this. Amnesty and Gues-Worker anything DOES NOT WORK.

I am here to find answers that I may have overlooked.

Thanks Kurt, your response was meaningful.

I have looked at some of the postings here. The reason why I hesitated to join is because... well, because of the high emotional vibes these postings send out, I wondered if I really would be accepted.

I mean, I am the second generation of a Mexican grandfather who came to the US illegally. When I read comments about that clause about citizenship rights, I feel like I am worth nothing. I mean, it wasn't my fault I came into existence into this wonderful country because of the decision of my grandfather. Some would say, "you were supposed to be born in Mexico." I really do become upset by all this. I am only looked at by my skin color and my race... instead of being seen as an American who happened to come into existence in this country. Does the past of my grandfather matter? And if it does, why should it still haunt me? If my grandfather was part of an "invasion," am I still an "invader"? I know the language and the culture... I haven't changed anything...

I only seek to be understood. And I wish to sympathize with those who come into existence in a country without having a say or a decision.

Originally Posted by Oblivion

Thanks Kurt, your response was meaningful.

I have looked at some of the postings here. The reason why I hesitated to join is because... well, because of the high emotional vibes these postings send out, I wondered if I really would be accepted.

I mean, I am the second generation of a Mexican grandfather who came to the US illegally. When I read comments about that clause about citizenship rights, I feel like I am worth nothing. I mean, it wasn't my fault I came into existence into this wonderful country because of the decision of my grandfather. Some would say, "you were supposed to be born in Mexico." I really do become upset by all this. I am only looked at by my skin color and my race... instead of being seen as an American who happened to come into existence in this country. Does the past of my grandfather matter? And if it does, why should it still haunt me? If my grandfather was part of an "invasion," am I still an "invader"? I know the language and the culture... I haven't changed anything...

I only seek to be understood. And I wish to sympathize with those who come into existence in a country without having a say or a decision.

Allow me to ask a rational question first. If you have a box filled with only enough resources to get ten mice through a lifetime, and the rate of reproduction generates 20 mices instead.. how long will all the mice live if they would have lived to 1 year old with just ten mice or less? If you end up with twice the population in any given scenario within a contained/finite area than what it could have supported... resources and space are cut in half.

We NEED immigration laws, and we need to stop illegal immigration of HOARDS who seek to come here thinking if they have a child here, they will always be permitted to stay because that child was birthed here.

The truth of the matter is, broken laws are broken laws. Lawlessness begets lawlessness. The nature of humanity is riddled with great examples. If one law can be broken and gotten away with, there is no longer any need to attempt in abiding by any law.

It takes a lack of compassion to rush a border of a sovereign nation illegally. Now I ask why we should permit others to claim we have no ccompassion against those who broke the law?

If I run out and rob a bank, with no remorse and no compassion for the stress I put those people through, should I expect a judge to have compassion just send me back out onto the street with no punishment at all? Is that fair to the bankers and the tellers?

Give me an honest answer here. (perking ears)

I agree with you; there should be laws. But because we are humans, laws don't always work out, as we have seen. Yet it is our job to enforce them.

So in other words, I would be viewed as a product of lawlessness.

Terrific...

As tasteless as that sounds Oblivion, yes. But if I were in charge of this whole thing, I would provide amnesty to third generation back because they have already been rooted in. I wouldn't have the HEART to uproot those people who are working, obtained their legal citizen status and are contributing and not leaching.

At the risk off inducing the wrath of others here, I do believe in anmesty, but only a severely restricted form of it.

The top 10% of those here would be given anmesty. That 10% would include those who have been here as a product of grandparents.

However, I would also be ruthless when it comes to those who have arrived here over the past five - ten years. They would immediately be deported no matter what it takes, told to get to the back of the line behind those who have been waiting through the legal process and then wait for their turn to come up.

There CAN be compassion, but parents who are came here legally within the past five - ten years should be sent back as an entire family WITH child to their nation of origin - whether that be Italy, Mexico, Canada, China, Iraq - whatever the case may be.

Laws are laws.

Oblivion, I do have sympathy for your plight and the plight of others like you-- with reservations. If you are out there marching around and most especially if you are waving some other country's flag, you joined THEM and not us. So, keep that in mind if the temptation to march with the enemy overcomes you.

The same goes for the immigrants here legally who are foolish enough to want others to be given a free ride.

And naturalized citizens who think that illegals should be given amnesty are just plain stupid in my humble opinion.

I am suspicious of ALL marchers because they either don't understand the situation or they have something to gain personally through giving amnesty to people who are in this country illegally.