Thread: Remarks by the President

Originally Posted by LegalUSCitizen

Nobody likes to have to talk about the POTUS like that, but does any American who really cares about the future of this country have a choice?

I mean, I don't know how many people will enter our country tonight as we sleep, but I do know that the numbers have been in the thousands, EVERY DAY and NIGHT. WHERE does it stop?! If it were not for all the people screaming and yelling about it....he STILL would have done nothing about it!!

What are we suppose to do, allow our country to be taken over by people who just "feel" they have a "right" to be here?

Countries have to have laws and they have to be legitimate laws, taken seriously by people or in a short time you're not going to have a country anymore.

Where would our country end up if we do away with immigration laws, which is essentially what our president has done, by his failure to enforce the law.

What is the answer when you have someone as president who insists on turning a huge and serious problem into a "sentimental dilemma". The United States cannot afford this. We need an effective president who can and will take a strong stand with tough problems.

President Bush, we're tired of listening to your lullabies and poetry. Americans are being harmed and killed on a daily basis and it is high time that you incorporate the truth into your agenda.

So what are you gonna do, Legal? We're not discussing WHETHER Bush is to be the President. Bush IS the President. The election was three years ago and he won. But because dimwits couldn't get through their heads that his election was a battle already lost, they tried to fight it again last November as though Bush was somehow running in that race. What did that get us? I'll tell you what it got us. It got us a bunch of people losing their grip on reason to the point that they took out their frustration with him on the party that is ON THEIR SIDE in this battle, and replaced them with a bunch of OBL Demoncrats. Now we're worse off by far, but I guess that those idiots feel like they "showed Bush." Yeah, right! What they showed Bush and other people who want to sell our country right out from under us that we're such a bunch of idiots that we can be tricked into voting AGAINST OUR BEST INTERESTS so long as we allow ourselves to be sufficiently polarized in this false dichotomy. That's right, people were worked into such a tizzy over Bush on this issue that they voted FOR his allies on the issue and KICKED OUT those who had sided with what this site is ostensibly about. What sort of sense does that make?

In short, YOU CAN'T DO A DAMNED THING ABOUT BUSH. He IS President and will continue to be, all loopy impeachment fantasies aside, for almost two more years. He can't run again and will never again face the electorate. Like it or not, this administration is what America voted into office in 2004 and that's an office that is not up for grabs again until next November with a new set of polarizing figures. If you want to do something constructive, start fighting tomorrow's battle to come, not yesterday's battle past. Start by looking to the upcoming primaries to make damned sure that we aren't stuck with another Bush/Gore or Bush/Kerry no-win situation in 2008. Start vigorously campaigning for the guy you think is right for the job NOW, not in late 2008 when the field has already been narrowed to Bad Choice A and Bad Choice B. As far as current legislation goes, forget about the President and his pandering. Instead of trying to move an immoveable object (Bush's support of unchecked immigration), secure the support of those who already share our views and then try to move some of the slightly movable objects in the form of legislators at the local, state and national level who are on the fence but who may be persuaded to occasionally side with us on this issue. You do that with honey, not with spit and vinegar.

And please try to get out of the binary mindset. A person who is an enemy on this issue may well be someone that you have to rely on to secure your Second Amendment rights or protect you against Orwellian thought crime legislation or higher taxes. The guy you call the Devil or a traitor in an email this week may be someone whose vote you need to coax on another issue next week. You can't group legislators and other public servants into "good" versus "evil." They are people with positions on all sorts of important subjects and, as the supposed servants of the people, they should be willing to allow us to make the case for our own views. They won't agree with us on every issue, and they may not even agree with the majority of their constituency on every issue, which is why our arguments must be focused, concise and reasonable. Furthermore, we must attempt to persuade people who may not share many or any of our other political views that we are at least right on THIS issue so that we can further tip the scales of public opinion in our favor. Politicians may be willing to buck the will of the majority, but they will rarely oppose the will of a vast majority. So we must stick to the issue and the facts surrounding it without being overly polarized, polarizing or controversial. We are already at a disadvantage numerically in Congress because of rashness and misdirected anger. Didn't the outcome of that last election and the numerical quandry we find ourselves in with this Congress teach us anything?

Thank you Crocketsghost for helping us stay focused and not letting certain heated and important issues - the future of America - pit us against each other or waste time and energy on a president whose is just saying what he is told.

When W. Bush talks I know he is talking to his C.F.R. cronies. When he says he has been speaking to certain groups regarding the above issues, he never mentions the American people except to say citizens must understand the needs of corporate needs and interests.

I feel that the Bush/Clinton crime families are one and the insane. Their focus is to drag Americans into poverty and drive us into total anarchy. That way they can implement their plan of marchal law.

I am focused on hopefully, the next president. Hopefully it will be true patriot and not a O.W.O stoog.

Crocket'sGhost-

As usual, a very good post. I think Americans like those who post on this forum are just plain tired of being lied to and treated like ignorant masses to be manipulated. And, although your comments are logical and would apply if we lived in the world we all want, I'm coming to the conclusion that we can no longer be so nice when others are manipulating our media and our governmental officials so blantantly. It's becoming breathtaking. The Hold Their Feet to the Fire concept is not only one that should be used for the immigration debate, but one that should be used to call our legislators, and our media, to account for ethics violations, bad legislation, biased reporting... all the things that have led to the current upheaval in our country. If those officials / media come to the forum and see anger, and they want support, which they will have to have in the voting booth, then they should take corrective action and we should not let up until they do.

YOU CAN'T DO A DAMNED THING ABOUT BUSH

Yes, I can, and have been doing so and so have many others. We've been writing, calling and letting the Republican party know we think Bush has damaged our party. And, people are backing away from him.

I'm not even sure I can type what I want to say What the hell does renewing our souls mean?? The only way our souls will be renewed is through our All mighty God, not some illegal whos only agenda is to bring our country down futher. Obviously he still does not understand the word ILLEGAL I sure has heck do not need the a**holes on the hill to renew anything for me. We should deport him and the likes who totally have no regard for our constitution what it stands for. Our founding fathers are all turning over in their graves right now. We have the right to redress our grieviences and he should be IMPEACHED for not enforcing the laws.

Originally Posted by Faye

Crocket'sGhost-

As usual, a very good post. I think Americans like those who post on this forum are just plain tired of being lied to and treated like ignorant masses to be manipulated. And, although your comments are logical and would apply if we lived in the world we all want, I'm coming to the conclusion that we can no longer be so nice when others are manipulating our media and our governmental officials so blantantly. It's becoming breathtaking. The Hold Their Feet to the Fire concept is not only one that should be used for the immigration debate, but one that should be used to call our legislators, and our media, to account for ethics violations, bad legislation, biased reporting... all the things that have led to the current upheaval in our country. If those officials / media come to the forum and see anger, and they want support, which they will have to have in the voting booth, then they should take corrective action and we should not let up until they do.

YOU CAN'T DO A DAMNED THING ABOUT BUSH

Yes, I can, and have been doing so and so have many others. We've been writing, calling and letting the Republican party know we think Bush has damaged our party. And, people are backing away from him.

Well, Faye, what I meant was that we can't do a thing about the fact that he is and will continue to be President for almost two more years. Of course we should be working with legislators to oppose those programs backed by this administration that we oppose while trying to use their power along with our own to pressure it into enforcing laws and established policies it has been refusing to enforce and to back off of policies we oppose. We must just be careful how we couch our opposition to the Administration. So long as we keep it aboveboard and adult, we may actually get somewhere. An example would be referring to a Bush policy as "disastrous" or "dangerous" rather than "treasonous." Another would be referring to deceptive statements by the administration as such, or better yet as "misguided," rather than calling the President a liar (regardless of your opinion of his relative honesty). That keeps things in the realm of constructive discourse and avoids alienating potential allies whose opinion of the President or whose level of respect for the office is different from our own.

We're not discussing WHETHER Bush is to be the President. Bush IS the President.

You are correct on that and I take your points agreeably. Some if not almost all of us AT TIMES feel a need to express how upset President Bush makes us when he discusses illegal immigration to the public.

It is true that a lot of times we start talking as though he is "running for president" rather than talking in the real sense. I think a lot of times we are still trying to "convince him" to reconsider his position and how he wants to deal with this problem. (As if we really thought he would ever adjust his position on an issue! ) We become frustrated because we feel our efforts are so often (but not ALWAYS) in vain. He HAS made a few very minor changes in his rhetoric over the months, but nothing nearly significant enough. Not even close to what the majority of Americans want to hear him say.

I've often thought when people call him things like the devil, and comments on those lines that if there was ever a chance to persuade him it wouldn't be through those tactics. But people are just trying to "let him know" just how completely fed up they are. When people critisize him in that way it's the only way they know to punish him for what people see as outright dereliction of duty.

Now I'm going to be super honest about something. There have actually been a few times where he's said something and I thought he was right about illegal immigration to a certain extent. The extent that I've ever agreed with him on this is very minute. I believe that he is answering to the CFR, but a few times I've been able to see things through his eyes and understand that as president he needs to use caution in taking on quite the same raging anger that many if not most of us have regarding this invasion into our country. He apparently sees it as "people trying to have a better life". Okay, as a person, I can understand that. However, I am smart enough to know, and he should be too, that the more he puts it into that context the more he is "excusing" these people and the more they will contunue to do it. I know that it is his responsibility to protect and defend the legal citizens of this country and although I understand that in doing so he has to make hard decisions which could go against "heart-felt sentiments". But that's what being president is all about a lot of the time. Being president is hard, he said that. We know it is, but it's the price you pay for when you ask to live in the White House and succeed in getting to.

Well, since he is president for almost two more years, I can't help but to think that we still have to pressure him to take a stronger and harsher attitude towards illegal immigration. We need to do our best to let him know that we do not want to hear his tear-jerking sentiments about this anymore. We can at least try to express that.

We can't just pretend that he doesn't exist and ONLY look towards 2008. I believe that we still have to ask him to look at illegal immigration from other points of view rather than from just the old sob story, which he has allowed himself to become so comfortable with. We need to tell him that it's time that he do some sobbing about the effects illegal immigration is having on the American people.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should act as though he doesn't exist!

We could if he'd just stay quiet! But I wouldn't count on that, therefore I think we still have to continue to try to get him to look at this problem in a more honest and factual way.

I completely understand your position, LegalUSCitizen. It is a frustrating situation to say the least. I even agree that there is no harm in trying to change the President;s opinion on this issue, though I think it is a waste of time. My point, which you seem to understand, is that IF we want to try to change his opinion, we most present an impassioned yet cool-headed argument based upon the facts and realities of the situation. Threats of impeachment and disparaging comments about his parentage are not going to do anything but further entrench his current position. Worse yet, the effect that such comments have upon potential allies whose opinion of the President is not as harsh or even realistic doesn't seem to be taken into account.

As I mentioned, I have had a number of people who I tried to get involved with ALIPAC end up turning their back on participation because of the sometimes virulent slant against the President and to a lesser extent against the GOP in general (especially back before the election). In the heat of battle and debate, it is sometimes easy to overlook how our comments will be taken by those visiting the site. We need to keep in mind who our allies and our potential allies are, and move forward rather than losing credibility fighting battles long lost.

Crocket....do you think there's any real hope for impeachment of Bush?

Threats of impeachment and disparaging comments about his parentage are not going to do anything but further entrench his current position. Worse yet, the effect that such comments have upon potential allies whose opinion of the President is not as harsh or even realistic doesn't seem to be taken into account.

Agree.

I want President Bush to know that people who would like very much to see illegal aliens deported, or at least told by the president that they must return to their countries of origin are not bigots and racists. Quite honestly, I believe that in his heart and mind he knows this. I do not think that he thinks that we are cruel, racist, bigots, the way some, such as Lindsey Graham would portray us as being to the President.

I think and believe that he does know the truth regarding what our concerns are, and how much this is harming our country. I really don't think that we have to tell him about that, yet we have no choice but to continue to send him facts and figures and to reiterate these points to him, if we are to have any chance whatsoever of continuing to get him to budge any more than the slight, slight budges he has made. But overall he has taken his stand and we know what that is.

I would like for President Bush to know that I can look into the eyes of an illegal alien and feel sympathy. I am capable of understanding why a person might do something such as enter a country illegally for the purpose of seeking a better way of life. He doesn't need to keep telling us that, but he seems to think that he must continue to reiterate that to us. I have taken my stand and it is on the side of law and order.

No matter what he says, it doesn't change the way I feel about what needs to be done regarding illegal immigration. It doesn't change the fact that I do not believe in amnesty of any form. If I broke into a country I would expect to be caught sooner or later and sent back.

Yes, but Crocket, I truly believe the man should be impeached... so strongly that I don't even care if it happens the last day of his tenure if only to serve notice that no one coming after him will attempt the same. Everyone in favor of it is always pointing to the Iraqi war and the wiretapping, torture, etc. If that's enough, why are the people aware of the Security and Prosperity Partnership not yelling their heads off? Go here and see if you can tell me you can maintain decorum.

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