Thread: We have lost.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Like Pinto Bean, I had hoped that the leaders of all of the burgeoning
anti-illegal groups around the country would organize themselves--
and their members--into a large, nationally-organized movement.
However, that has failed to materialize, and I think that is defeating
us.

What many of the primarily computer-related sites like NumbersUSA,
ALIPAC, etc. have done is terrific, but confining oneself to sending
personal opinions and statements over the internet has limited our
movement primarily to that one sphere, and to a number of dedicated
individuals. It has not developed into a cohesive group nationally
able to operate together in the "physical (or 'real') world", and make
a lasting impact there.

The "pro-illegal immigrant movement", on the other hand, has spent
years organizing itself politically "in the real world", and working toward
the time at hand. They stick together; they work together; and they
have myriad influencial allies.

Excellent post. Welcome Texas, I feel approximately the same way. We get too busy spending our time preaching to the choir. We really do need to spread the message to citizens who are clueless. That, and influencing right action from the politicians , should be our primary aim.

I don't think the Illegal crowd is more organized. They just have louder leaders who aren't afraid of being shut down. The crowd just does what it's told. While telling Americans what to do ,and when, is like herding cats. Whenever Nativo Lopez (a race-baiting scumbag in LA area) gets on his phone, calls a Hispanic station at 7am, and orders a march on city hall at 3 pm, he can be assured thousands of illegals will show up like good little socialist sheep. We can't seem to pull that trick off. Yet.

And therein is the other problem. We need a leader. Someone with the chutzpah of Cindy Sheehan, the strident manner of Al Sharpton, the recognition factor of Tom Cruise. Someone speaking in the commanding voice of James Earl Jones. An obviously wise and cultured person, like Derek Jacobi. Plus he or she has to be on fire for this cause, with the courage to face up to one of the most dangerous threats this country has ever faced. Oh where is he? (Or she?)

ConcernedVeteran, thank you for the kind words.

I think, however, that you are carrying my suggestions far beyond
my own more limited concept. I certainly had no vision of any or
all of these separate internet activist organizations "merging into
one whole"! You are right: each has its own special character and
"M.O.". However, "to win the battle but lose the war" is a military
term, and I am afraid that is what is happening to us.

Many of our organizations have a strong, well-informed leader.
In this, we are most fortunate here to be blessed with William's
considerable talents and dedication! It was my hope, after
the original "anti-illegal immigration Summit" held in Las Vegas, that
these individual leaders would come together to form a sort
of "national communication central command" to help organize a
more unified movement across the country. And, in some ways,
such as verbal and written communications with officials and
media, it has worked that way. However, unlike the
pro-immigrant forces, we have no one actually "walking the Halls
of Congress", nor taking Press Releases to media outlets. Since
William was a Legislative Assistant with the N.C. Legislature, I had
hoped he would bring specific "tricks of the trade" he learned there
to a national organization. However, he can't be everywhere, and
what ALIPAC provides certainly is invaluable as a "central clearing
house" of specialized information.

However, you are right: for things like that, we certainly would need
far more money! I had hoped that organizations like the Minutemen
would, after their initial "national attention-getter", turn their efforts
and fundraising to things which I believe would be more effective now,
such as engaging and maintaining a national Lobbyist for our cause!

But, my more limited thought now was simply that groups such as
SOS. which previously have devoted themselves to "activitism through
public protest" might--during the coming five months--instead turn
their energies toward actively setting up places to help legal U.S. citizens
register to vote, while at the same time providing inexpensive
materials (such as ALIPAC's fliers) to inform them of our side of this
question. Getting our activists involved in this process would also
perhaps give us some access to monitoring whether the pro-immigrant
forces are registering illegal aliens to vote, and corrupting our electoral
process. ( Remember, Angel Resendiz, a Mexican national who is
currently on Texas Death Row for killing at least 9 people, voted in a
U.S. presidential election!) Further, it might call needed attention in the
public's mind to the fact that only U.S. citizens are legally qualified to
vote, while even legal immigrants--let alone illegal ones--are not. I was
thinking more "Moms and Dads with Relatives at Card Tables in Mini-
Malls registering citizens to vote" than a "mass movement"!

However, thank you for your thoughtful response and suggestions!
Because, this would have to be carefully planned out to stay strictly
within all applicable regulations if it were done, even on a small scale
by different groups.

JustSayNo: thank you, also, for your kind words.

I certainly agree with you about our need for a well-known public
spokesman. Derek Jacobi, of course, has the drawback of being
English! However, knighted or not, whoever speaks for us publically
now will only be called "a racist" -- as much in the U.K. as here.
Rep. Tom Tancredo certainly is a "man of pure motives and excellent
character", and look what the "opposition" has tried to do to him!

However, since Tom Tancredo himself has not yet given up, perhaps
we should not either! (Speaking especially to myself!)

I am going to go out on a limb here. I personally believe in God and I do not know how many here share that belief, I'm not asking people to do something they do not want to, but for those people who do, make a commitment to pray each day(eastern time 12 noon, central time 1pm, mountain time 2pm and pacific time 3pm).

AmericanElizabeth--Is it your goal to have everyone in America praying at the same time every day??? If so, you need to change your times because, if it's 12 noon EST, it would be 9 AM Pacific time, 11 AM Central time and 10 AM Mountain time rather than the times you listed.

JustSayNo, PintoBean and Texas2step--as painful as it is to admit it, I believe y'all are right about the fact that we have wasted enormous amounts of time ranting and raving over the internet rather than ACTING.
Like one of you said, it was SO disheartening to see how FEW showed up for the Minutemen protest compared to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of ILLEGALS who showed up MORE THAN ONCE in their protests and carrying THEIR flags. We are just so typical of Americans--we have become so complacent that we no longer have the will to REALLY "go public" for our cause. We have sent letters, faxes, emails, made calls and done everything that has been suggested EXCEPT becoming a cohesive, organized force to oppose illegal immigration. I can just picture every office of every representative having to hire extra help to grab those faxes, letters and emails and trash them without even reading them.
It's easy for them to ignore those communications but they SURE haven't ignored those illegals marching in the streets speaking Spanish, demanding THEIR rights and carrying THEIR FLAGS. If you just look back at the Senate's actions AFTER those marches, it should be clear that they WERE impacted and that was the first time they decided to ram through an "immigration reform bill". I just can't believe the intelligence level of our Senators. I guess I can't believe the intelligence level of the Americans who elected them either.

We rant and rave about how we will vote every single on of those opposed to our position out of office but who are we going to vote FOR?? It seems that, with the exception of a VERY FEW, most of the choices we have are supporting this travesty amnesty bill. Do we want to vote for bleeding heart liberals who want to GIVE AWAY our country to the illegals?
I guess, the closer the time gets to the Senate actually passing this bunch of bunk they are going to pass, the more discouraged I get. WE should have been doing what those illegals have done but we should have done it a year ago. It's too late now to organize any type of protest in time for it to change what is going to be the outcome. We have spent years trying to "play nice" and write our leaders expressing our views really BELIEVING that they would LISTEN and look where it's gotten us. I guess I feel like I have wasted my time and my breath for the last 3 years and I am DEPRESSED!

EagleEye, I share your deep dismay. I realize that it's not "politically correct" to state something like this, but fact is fact: our founding forefathers were fierce and radically behind their desires for freedom for their posterity (future generations).

Today, if you even come to a point where you are even a mere 10% of what one of those founding fathers were, you are labelled an extremist, radical, enemy combatant and/or criminal. You are investigated by your own government AND now we discover the Mexican government THROUGH our government as well.

Those of us who have attempted to take a more "in your face" or "radical" approach have been threatened with being banned on forums and online groups, called "vigilantes", "racists", "xenophibic biggots" and the like.

You CANNOT sway a majority in a population with such dread and fear going on. Unless you "bring them along" and embolden them through proper (and widespread) information campaigns - they will remain passive and live in their own little worlds.

As the saying goes, there is much work to do while the workers are so few.

I've been attempting to warn people for years over the decline of the United States of America. Unfortunately, people will not learn by hearing alone - they will have to experience it for themselves in order for it to be believed! Let us hope that when that time comes, it won't be too late to take it back. There certainly is a threshold - a fine line between certainty and uncertainty. And what is most disgraceful of all, the line between the two is fading quickly.

I have personally labelled this period of time as 'The time of decision' but I wonder some days if I should have called it 'The time of indecision'?

The future will be decided by the stroke of a pen and the turn of a page. If the pen writes the wrong "story" in the story book, I fear greatly what it will take to restore this nation back to something we would want our children to inherit!

Well said, CONCERNEDVET.

The fact is that some of us have been working at this for a hell of a lot longer than 3 or 4 years. Now that the train is visible, eyes are opening. With that is confusion. Educating the public is a prerequisite to activating them which is vital at this moment in time.

People have to know that they have a dog in this fight in order to get them up and moving.

Within a very short period of time, masses of Americans have awakened. That in itself is a huge accomplishment.

Originally Posted by concernedveteran

The future will be decided by the stroke of a pen and the turn of a page. If the pen writes the wrong "story" in the story book, I fear greatly what it will take to restore this nation back to something we would want our children to inherit!

You still need to wait for this story to be written. Individual American citizens will decide if it's the wrong story and see the need to enter the streets for the just cause of saving their nation. I'll tell you from experience that it's better to be in the street with the police bringing you coffee instead of busting your head.

Going to the streets is "going for broke." Life as you know it is on that line. This is your weapon of last resort. The saying is "Don't pull your weapon unless you're going to use it."

In the armed forces, not everyone is sent to the front lines. There is also a support structure in place. There are those who gather intelligence. There are those who maintain the communications gear which provide the way for them to obtain their intelligence. There are battle field planning committees. There are cooks, truck drivers, aircraft mechanics, machinsts etc.

I believe it's important that we don't all go in the same direction at the same time -- we have many different ideas and I am thankful for everything that everyone here is doing. My battlefield is fighting for state's rights -- one day we will all meet in the middle!

P.S.

our founding forefathers were fierce and radically behind their desires for freedom for their posterity (future generations).

their life depended on the outcome -- too many people don't see this as a fight for freedom

The saying is "Don't pull your weapon unless you're going to use it."

Very good advice.

I think a 4th of July rally at the Capitol would be a great thing to do, but it would take a leader and LOTS of money to pull it off properly. Another possibility would be to throw our efforts behind Frosty Wooldridge's Paul Revere ride and meet him in DC when he gets there.

We need someone like Tancredo to push it on a DAILY basis. We need the MSM to be FORCED into reporting on it BEFORE the fact, not after. Imagine if the 96 members of the House Immigration Reform Caucus all stood on the steps of the Capitol and called ALL Americans to the defense of their country. Do you think we could manage a turnout then? I do.

I'd like them to do it next week, and ask those supporters in the Senate to stand with them.

It's put up or shut up time.

Whatever happens with the government - our fight is far from over.

If we defeat amnesty before this election, it will rear it's ugly head soon after.

If we put the same bunch of critters back in office - you can bet it will come up and it will be harder to defeat.

But whether it passes or not, whether it passes now or later - we can still continue our fight against the employers. We will still have the power of our money. We can still use our money to do our voting for us - and we must.