Thread: We have lost.

Good if more of them get this attitude then we can see a reverse in the numbers of illegal aliens in this country. Go back home and make a difference in your own countries instead of coming here and sucking off hard working american citizens.

I agree I think there has been some fear struck. They will not admit it due to the machismo bs but it is there. Every article I have read across contry is saying the same thing, they are laying very low right now.

I also want to say in regards to congress contacts, after the 2 reports we got this week of emails and faxes being blocked and phones with no one answering etc, I have launched a new approach. My emails and reasons for calling are now over the Internet control or some other issue. ANOTHER WORDS TITlE YOUR EMAIL DIFFERENTLY AND LIE. I actually got some responses this week and I hadn't had any for awhile.

The point is to get threw the phone call to them, or have them read your email. If that means lieing on the title of the email or lieing about your reason for calling then so be it. All is far in love and war.

INTERESTING.........It only took a few weeks of getting a teeny weeny bit tougher and they're throwing in the towel?

WELL, guess that means that DEPORTATION BY ATTRITION wouldn't be difficult at all!!! Put up the heat and BAM........magic

Argument Numer Uno DEBUNKED.

Originally Posted by DcSA

I'd just like to add my 2 cents here. I see people feeling discouraged so I feel like I should tell you what I am seeing here in the "Barrio". An illegal aquaintance told me he's buying a ticket to return to Mexico for good. WHY? Because he feels its going to get harder and harder here. When I asked about the bill in the Senate they are supposed to pass - he told me it was "just like a telenovela" - that they are just keeping us all on the edge of our seats waiting to see what will happen next. He doesn't believe they will pass anything to allow illegals to stay here.

He also pointed out how few illegals are out in the streets now. He said people are scared to come out much. The "Bailes" the dances are not full like they usually are. He said a family he knows is selling their house so they can go home to Mexico ASAP.

There seem to be some who are seeing the move to troops on the border and the tougher enforcement all over the country as very discouraging developments.

this is probably the difference in the people that came here to work and those that came here to reconquer.

I hope these people can return to Mexico and demand their government provide for it's own people. It would be great to see the citizens prevail in the United States and Mexico -- there has been too much corruption

Sadly, you may well be right.....

I watch the Minutemen in Washington, DC....though I APPLAUD their efforts, I was truly SADDENED at the lack of bodies there. I have been great sadden at the unwillingness of those in key positions within our movement to organize a serious march, to organize SERIOUS boycotts, and to take the drastic steps needed to see our voices heard.

Everyone says keep calling, keep faxing, keep writing...I do, but for what?
To get back FORM LETTERS saying our voices are important to the (put name here) elected official in Washington, only to go look at their report cards and find out they are LYING TO YOU.

The illegal aliens and their supporters have taken BOLD and DRASTIC steps, while we sit comfy in our homes coming up with great excuses why attending a NATIONAL MARCH would imposition us. What is ANY IMPOSITION when our very lifestyle is at risk of being lost? Where are a million Americans using up a weeks vacation to converge on Washington demanding our nation back?

We express our anger and rage, and we are told we are not being politically correct. We say we are against illegals, and we let the other side box us in with a RACIST label.

Yes, we may well have lost, and if we do, how many of us will be here wishing we had held a March, how many of us will bemoan that we did not taken DRASTIC STEPS? I'm fifty, my wife and I are secure enough to ride things out, and we have no children of our own, so in many ways this issue is not going to effect me as much as it is others, I am in the fight out of a love for the country I grew up in, a love for a way of life that has been good to me, but what about the rest of you, what about those of you who have children and grand children that way pay for this mortal sin against America's middle class....will be be able to watch their pain and feel you did all that you could?

Pinto Bean

PINTO

The fact is that most Americans don't "march." Only the loonies tend to do that and they're almost always being manipulated by the communist/socialist movements.

Americans, by and large, are too busy raising families and working to keep a roof over their heads.

I wouldn't let a lack of a march get to you right now.........as long as phones and faxes are getting a work out, our voices are making loud noises.

NEVER BEND & ONLY LOOK FORWARD

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

PINTO The fact is that most Americans don't "march." Only the loonies tend to do that :

I strongly disagree. Americans marched against the war in Iraq, they marched for Civil Rights. They march in parades for all kinds of silly things. But they are afraid of coming out on the side of patriotism. Patriotism is a dirty word, an ultra-right-wing dirty word. Unless another 9/11 comes, and then everyone's a patriot.
We do march, only why aren't we marching now? Once we find the reason why Americans will not march for this issue we will know how to fix it.

Possible reasons: (goes for participating in any anti-invasion march, rally)
Fear of reprisal, work, school, etc.
Marches are not well orchestrated or advertised, so only hear of them after
Don't like confrontation. Would march if the "other side" stayed home.
Too politically correct and soft on issues.
They feel isolated, don't want to be identified with unpopular issue
Don't really understand the threat to the nation, think we are exaggerating.
Bought into the "racist" slogans for Minutemen, etc.
A bit of guilt over keeping an illegal working for them
Waiting to step in when the numbers increase
Can't take time from work etc.
The reality hasn't sunk in yet
It's really not so bad in THEIR area yet
Price of gas too expensive
American Idol is on

DcSa, let me tell you how it is on the front lines (We are not the only American family in this complex). Around May 1st they were so worried, they were packing their cars with clothes, blankets, food, and their electronics. The kids here were telling our son all about how they had all planned how to get out if the police and military came for them.

Now, they are starting to feel emboldened again, the maintenance guy (he says he has papers, but we doubt it) actually has been telling our son where he can be around here and where he cannot.

We went hiking at Multnomah Falls and when we came back in, they were all out partying and one of the guys was out there dancing around with his "colors" showing (swinging his nicely rolled blue bandana around).

No problem, we've got it handled. ICE will be called Monday, after I send a very pointed email today, since these kids have told us they are definitely illegals, then we have what we need to call. I will be sure to tell ICE who I am with and that I am sending copies of my emails onto the Minutemen to show that the government is not doing their jobs.

Like Pinto Bean, I had hoped that the leaders of all of the burgeoning
anti-illegal groups around the country would organize themselves--
and their members--into a large, nationally-organized movement.
However, that has failed to materialize, and I think that is defeating
us.

What many of the primarily computer-related sites like NumbersUSA,
ALIPAC, etc. have done is terrific, but confining oneself to sending
personal opinions and statements over the internet has limited our
movement primarily to that one sphere, and to a number of dedicated
individuals. It has not developed into a cohesive group nationally
able to operate together in the "physical (or 'real') world", and make
a lasting impact there.

The "pro-illegal immigrant movement", on the other hand, has spent
years organizing itself politically "in the real world", and working toward
the time at hand. They stick together; they work together; and they
have myriad influencial allies.

I wrote earlier suggesting that ALIPAC and other internet "allies" spend
the next five months as our opponets are doing: that, is, informing other
citizens about our cause, and actively encouraging them both to register
to vote and to do so. However, OUR targets would be LEGAL U.S. citizen
voters rather than illegal aliens. I did not see it, so perhaps it was not
of interest, or I did not enter it correctly. However--

U.S. citizen voters are the most apathetic in the world, with only about
30% of our registered voters voting in non-presidential elections!
Our best, and perhaps last, weapon in this crisis situation is our vote
as U.S. citizens! The country is already "on alert" about this situtation,
so voter turnout will probably be higher this Nov. anyway. However,
that leaves perhaps 50% of country's voters who could perhaps be
convinced to come to the polls, and cast their votes against those who
are determined to take over this country. And, seeing anti-illegal alien
activists working hard to help inform and register legal voters across
the nation might give our politicians real reason to reconsider a
"pro-amnesty vote".

Texas2step... excellent post. However, I hope you will agree to my "disagreement" when it comes to the internet and it's use toward rallying people. People in the "real world" use the internet as a networking "agent". Information can be downloaded, printed off and given to many others out there who don't have internet access at all! I offer downloadable letters to Senators and Congressmen for passing along in the "real world" as you call it. And people have been downloading, copying and passing along. The fact is ... it works.

Part of organizing a mass movement is to get the word out in the form of carefully worded propaganda. The extremist groups La Raza, MEChA, LULAC and others have used the powerful tool of propaganda online, over radio talk shows and printed matter. Beat the drums and the rest of the band follows.

I do agree with you, though, that every organization and every group seem to cohesive in and of themselves, but deeply fragmented when it comes to joining efforts. I've attempted to forge affiliations with others, but the response is always "thanks for joining the same fight, but we have our own methods and don't need to join forces in the form of an affiliated effort. " We are united in our goals but divided in our battle.

Though I can sense that this is the situation as it appears to your eyes, I must say that being prior military, it does take many different talents to win a "war". While I agree with you that some unification is needed through affiliation - it is unrealistic to think that absolute merging would be a workable concept as well.

In the armed forces, not everyone is sent to the front lines. There is also a support structure in place. There are those who gather intelligence. There are those who maintain the communications gear which provide the way for them to obtain their intelligence. There are battle field planning committees. There are cooks, truck drivers, aircraft mechanics, machinsts etc.

Fact is, everyone has different writing skills, political skills, speaking skills and others. With my own website and efforts, along with ALIPAC, Minutemen, "You Don't Speak for Me", F.I.R.E. and others - we now have a vast information campaign bombarding search engines, government and media. We are the support structure. When it comes to unification, what I think is most important is that we engage the mass population! What this would require is to obtain mass funding, a centralized bank account with all support structure organizations as owners of the account, a board of treasurers for accountability... where all groups and organizations can each put some of their donation proceeds into one mass financial effort to publicize and engage the masses into action. THIS is where unification of efforts would be best utilized.

Your post in and of itself is great, as it promotes serious thought. Keep up the good work.