Thread: Despite families' pleas, O'Reilly slams VB

adam-k; not all sanctuary cities have written policies regarding how they treat illegal aliens like LA does in Special Order 40. Sometimes it occurs in the form of directives to the police force from superiors. However it is done, it's wrong. Their job is to enforce the law. Some say it's a federal law and it's not their job to enforce federal law.....I saw Malkin draw an interesting parallel to that the other night. She used a couple of examples but this was one of them (and I'm quoting loosely since I don't remember her exact words); "If the police saw someone robbing a bank or dumping hazardous chemicals into a waterway does that mean they shouldn't arrest that person? Should they just call the feds?" If a crime is happening in your jurisdiction and you're a police officer shouldn't you arrest that person? And if you arrest them for one crime and you find they've violated another in the course of them being under arrest do you just ignore the other crime? Don't police officers arrest people who during the course of a traffic stop discover drugs in the person's possession? Should we say to the police "No, you can't arrest that person for drugs because you only stopped them for making an illegal turn." What is the difference here? Ramos was arrested 3 times prior, you can't tell me the police didn't find that he didn't have proper documentation/ID.

I'm quite sure Mayor Orbendorf was aware of the practices of the police department on this issue. I came across this Virginia blog site:

VA Beach Infested With Weasels April 9, 2007

Posted by Riley, Not O'Reilly in Virginia Politics. trackback

What do the following cities all have in common?

San Francisco, Calif.
Cambridge, Mass.
Takoma Park, Md.
Virginia Beach, Va.

They are all sanctuary cities.

Oh, sure, Mayor Meyera Oberndorf uses weasel words like the following to deny it:

Neither I nor any member of the council have adopted any legislation to make this a sanctuary city.

This from the same person who called the proposal to build the 300-mile fence along the Mexico border “un-American.” Whether they officially adopted legislation or not, Virginia Beach is a de facto sanctuary city on account of their actions and lack thereof.

Just look at the policy put forward by Virginia Beach Police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr.:

The enforcement of the nation’s immigration laws is primarily the responsibility of the federal government. Accordingly, the Virginia Beach Police Department shall not undertake immigration-related investigations and shall not routinely inquire into the immigration status of persons encountered during police operations.

He then provides cover to Mayor Oberndorf:

Neither the Mayor nor anyone else on City Council had any input into this policy.

Okay, fair enough. But were they aware of it? Did they tacitly approve it? Did any of them express a problem with this policy and move to rescind or amend it as it would be within their power to do so? Those are the real questions in need of answers.

Then we get the following nonsensical statement from Chief Wiggums, I mean, Jacocks regarding the incident that started it all where an illegal alien drunk driver (who already had three alcohol-related convictions, yet somehow was still in the U.S.) killed two teenagers:

Tessa Tranchant and Alison Kunhardt were taken from their families and friends because the other driver was driving after consuming alcohol, not because he is illegally in the country.

Uh, if he wasn’t in the country illegally to begin with (or had been deported after at least one of his previous three convictions), he wouldn’t have been anywhere near his victims and wouldn’t have been able to kill them! THAT is the bottom line here.

My cousin was killed in a head-on collision with a drunk driver 22 years ago at the age of 18. The person who killed her and the two other girls in her car was underage and had a suspended license. Had the bar not served him or had he been in jail for a previous infraction, he wouldn’t have been in the position to get drunk and kill my cousin. Neither he nor the illegal alien in VA Beach were first-time offenders who killed people without advance warning of what they were capable of doing. It is no wonder there appears to be a weasel infestation in Virginia Beach these days.
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2 ... h-weasels/

OK, so I've read up on Jacocks' policy ... he instructs his officers not to ask about immigration status on misdemeanors because he believes it inhibits illegal immigrants from providing info on other crimes. Similar to how narcotics cops will keep small-time drug users on the street because they are valuable informants. I don't particularly care for his logic, but I don't think it's the end of the world, either. If he has reason to believe that the illegal immigrants are frequently providing solid leads that help his department bust bigger crimes, then I can see his logic, though again, I don't particualrly care for it. But it's an attempt at a tactical strategy on crime ... a long way from the notion that he does it on purpose to keep the illegals working in hotels.

As to Oberndorf:

(a.) I still can't find anything where she says she cares more about illegal immigrants than law-abiding teenagers. It must be hidden somewhere. In her own words.

(b.) What O'Reilly surely knows by now but continues to ignore is that in Va Beach's setup, the mayorship is almost a ceremonial post. She has no more power than any other city council member, and probably has less power than the city manager. Holding her responsible for the city's illegal immigrants, or holding her responsible for police policy, is ridiculous. O'Reilly may not have known this at first, but he surely knows it by now. It's been written repeatedly in the Virginian-Pilot and it was written again extensively. But he continues to attack her specifically and call her names and make sexist comments about her ... even though he knows she has no more power than any other city council member. Why? Because he won't admit that he made a mistake in blaming her to begin with?

Meyera E. Oberndorf - Mayor


July 1, 2004 to December 31, 2008
2401 Courthouse Drive
City Hall, Building #1
Municipal Center
Virginia Beach, VA 23456
Work: 757-385-4581
Home: 757-497-2446
moberndo@VBgov.com


Mayor Meyera E. Oberndorf began her public career with her appointment to the Public Library Board in 1966. She served as chair of the board until her election to the City Council in 1976. She was the first woman elected to public office in the more than 300-year history of Virginia Beach or its predecessor, the County of Princess Anne. She served as an at-large member of the council until 1986 when she was chosen by her fellow council members to be vice mayor. In 1988, the City Charter was amended to provide for the direct election of the mayor and Oberndorf became the city's first directly elected and first female mayor. Re-elected in 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004, she is Virginia Beach's longest-serving mayor.
Active in many regional, state and national organizations, Oberndorf currently serves on the executive committee of the United States Conference of Mayors, where she leads the International Affairs Committee. She is past president of the Virginia Municipal League and is vice chair of the National League of Cities International Task Force, former chair of the Committee on Energy, Environment and Natural Resources, and a member of the Advisory Board. She is past chair of the Hampton Roads Mayors and Chairs, the Hampton Roads Planning District Commission, and the Southeastern Public Service Authority and currently chairs the Southside Mayors and Chairs. Mayor Oberndorf, a "Distinguished Alumnus" of Old Dominion University, was awarded honorary doctorates from both Old Dominion and Johnson & Wales University. She was chosen as "Newsmaker of the Year" by the Virginia Press Women and was named one of the nation's 25 most dynamic mayors by Newsweek magazine. Honors also include the Zonta Club of Hampton Roads Women's Achievement Award; the Hampton University President's Citizenship Award; and the 2004 International Economic Development Council's Leadership Award for Public Service in Economic Development.

Oberndorf has been at the public trough for 41 years she is the big fish in
the pond, time to step up and admit the buck stops at your desk.

[quote=adam-k]

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by adam-k":17aregd3]Here is a columnist from the paper in Norfolk who is scorching Va Beach over this issue:

[url="http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122360&ran=40850

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.c ... &ran=40850[/url]

I believe if Va Beach's mayor was on the record as protecting illegal immigrants, this columnist would have mentioned it. I believe if Va Beach had a policy of allowing illegal immigrants three DUIs before deporting them, this columnist would have mentioned it. I believe if the mayor's "own words" had said that she doesn't care if kids die as long as the hotels make money, this columnist would have mentioned it.

By what tortured logical process did you arrive at that tenuous conclusion? Since when has the sensationalist media been even remotely as thorough as you suggest? .

Yes, that makes sense ... the "sensationalist" columnist looking to rip into the mayor would intentionally overlook or refuse to use the most damning evidence. Why didn't I think of that?[/quote:17aregd3]

Fella, you're quoting an op-ed piece. As everyone (except apparently yourself) knows, op-eds are not written for thoroughness, but rather for pithiness. I doubt that fact will penetrate your impenetrable troll logic.

Originally Posted by adam-k

I don't think it's the end of the world, either.

It certainly was for Tessa Tranchant and Alison Kunhardt.

Originally Posted by adam-k

Because he won't admit that he made a mistake in blaming her to begin with?

Looks like once again you're in the minority.

Is O'Reilly right to go after Mayor Oberndorf?
No Way: 9.7%
Of course: 82.2%
Yes, but I don't agree with his tactics: 8.0%
760 total responses

[quote=CrocketsGhost]

Originally Posted by adam-k

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by adam-k":4295tw0s]Here is a columnist from the paper in Norfolk who is scorching Va Beach over this issue:

[url="http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122360&ran=40850

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.c ... &ran=40850[/url]

I believe if Va Beach's mayor was on the record as protecting illegal immigrants, this columnist would have mentioned it. I believe if Va Beach had a policy of allowing illegal immigrants three DUIs before deporting them, this columnist would have mentioned it. I believe if the mayor's "own words" had said that she doesn't care if kids die as long as the hotels make money, this columnist would have mentioned it.

By what tortured logical process did you arrive at that tenuous conclusion? Since when has the sensationalist media been even remotely as thorough as you suggest? .

Yes, that makes sense ... the "sensationalist" columnist looking to rip into the mayor would intentionally overlook or refuse to use the most damning evidence. Why didn't I think of that?

Fella, you're quoting an op-ed piece. As everyone (except apparently yourself) knows, op-eds are not written for thoroughness, but rather for pithiness. I doubt that fact will penetrate your impenetrable troll logic.[/quote:4295tw0s]

I'm quite aware of what an opinion column is in a newspaper. So you're saying that the columnist is trashing the mayor but intentionally leaves out the most damning stuff? Or you're saying that mayor has been quoted as saying horribly damaging stuff but this fairly major newspaper either didn't know about it or chose not to publish it? You're crazy.

Thanks, by the way, for the insulting tone.

[quote=had_enuf]

Originally Posted by "adam-k":255qey8e

I don't think it's the end of the world, either.

It certainly was for Tessa Tranchant and Alison Kunhardt.

Originally Posted by adam-k

Because he won't admit that he made a mistake in blaming her to begin with?

Looks like once again you're in the minority.

Is O'Reilly right to go after Mayor Oberndorf?
No Way: 9.7%
Of course: 82.2%
Yes, but I don't agree with his tactics: 8.0%
760 total responses[/quote:255qey8e]

1.) Alison and Tessa would be just as dead if they were hit by an American drunk driver.
2.) Yes, I'm in the minority based on that unscientific poll. But I have the facts on my side ... the mayor of Va Beach has essentially no more power than any other council member, and it's the city manager, not the mayor, who oversees the police department. Those are facts. O'Reilly knows them but chooses to ignore them rather than admit he was wrong because he's getting good ratings by calling her names and making sexist comments about her. So you can cite a poll that says O'Reilly should continue attacking the mayor even though she is just 1/12th of the city council and has basically no say over the police. Doesn't mean the people responding to the poll are correct.

Crocketsghost wrote this to me: "So perhaps it is time that you ran along to some other site where people may be more susceptible to your false rationalizations and faulty linkage between unrelated issues, such as this nation's problem with foreign lawbreakers and other nations' problems with hunger caused by corrupt governments. Maybe you should join the Peace Corps."

And I'm beginning to think that he's right. I stumbled across this site on google while reading about the O'Reilly/VaBeach flap. I began posting on the topic thinking that it was a message board interested in discourse, but with a few exceptions it seems as though everyone has their mind made up and thinks anyone who disagrees is stupid or naive. I'm not here to tell you that my opinion is right and yours is wrong (though I've pointed out factual errors when I've noted them). It probably is about time for me to exit stage right and let you guys continue to agree with one another. I'll stick around long enough to search one more time for these mysterious quotes in which the mayor says she doesn't care if teenagers die and she likes having illegal immigrants in her town ... these mysterious quotes that somehow the local media has either missed or covered up.

Anyways ... to those who have been polite and civil, I say thanks for the brief bit of discourse we shared. To those who were rude ... well, I'll say nothing. And to those who would criticize the dead girls' families for not jumping on a political bandwagon during the grief, I say, "Try to be a little more sensitive."

adam-k:

1.) Alison and Tessa would be just as dead if they were hit by an American drunk driver.

But that wasn't the case.

That particular person is all that matters re those two poor girls.

I hope their parents never read that statement, rather heartless in my opinion.

Originally Posted by jean

adam-k:

1.) Alison and Tessa would be just as dead if they were hit by an American drunk driver.

But that wasn't the case.

That particular person is all that matters re those two poor girls.

I hope their parents never read that statement, rather heartless in my opinion.

Huh? On this very board, someone listed as the ALIPAC President/Administrator criticized the parents for not being more political in their grief. And you think MY post is heartless???