Thread: India: Legal immigrants in the US up in arms

My dearest friends here must also remembers that politicians and employers go hand in hand, they do whats best for the country in their interests.

Though I give them a lot of credit, I am surprised when they wrote the architecture for CIR Amnesty bill, this definitely showed that they are poorly informed or have a different motives (those who framed it)

Skilled Immigration may look like a domestic issue, but if you all break your jinx and look at it from a different perspective, jobs and skilled immigration is not a domestic policy but is strongly linked to foreign policy. So when policy decisions are taken in dealing with skilled immigrants, your politicians cannot make quick decisions by considering it a domestic policy. The recent Visa bulletin fiasco and how USICS screwed up shows that though the intent was clear that the intent was to treat it as a domestic policy, it is not easy.

Age discrimination here is illegal. In most jobs there is no reason to presume that a younger person is better. There is no good reason to displace older American workers from their jobs and replace them with younger foreign workers, yet this is a main threat of global labor arbitrage.

America faces a crisis in terms of funding Social Security. One main mitigation strategy - which is often overlooked - is to protect older workers in their jobs and make sure that they are allowed to keep working instead of forcing them out and turning them into drawers of resources instead of contributors. (Note: Scandinavia is already leaning towards this) Most of them want to keep working, many of them need to. The answer is not to replace them with younger foreign workers. The baby boomer generation is not aging the same way that earlier generations did. Previous generations had to run a gauntlet of infectious disease and hit-or-miss nutrition that the baby boomers did not. Modern medicine also plays a strong role in keeping baby boomers functional. Some will follow the traditional patterns of aging, many will not.

When I look at foreign job advertisements, I often see shocking examples of blatant age discrimination. Although they have become less obvious about it, it is still possible to find ads with an age ceiling. Many ads still list a maximum experience range that assures that accepted candidates will still be in their twenties. This practice is vile and must not come to America. America fought long and hard to eliminate this, and the last thing we need to do is waste our local talent by turning back a century of labor law progress and regress to the cutthroat competion of the third world. Nobody here wants that. The discriminatory practices seen are products of overpopulation, where there are too many people chasing too few jobs, and that's not how we want to live.

America already has a staggering problem with underemployment, caused by too many people (many of them foreign) chasing too few jobs. America's first responsibility is to the citizens who are legally here, who have no homeland to return to if America doesn't work out for them. There is nothing racist or wrong about this - all the other countries feel the same way and are not shy about framing their laws to enact preference for their own citizens.

The fact that some H-1Bs are indeed paid well doesn't change the fact that most requests are for a low skill level, paid at the 17th percentile of the prevailing wage, which results in pay $12-20K below the real prevailing wage here. How can you tell that H-1B is being abused - it was NEVER supposed to be used to displace an American, yet it often has. A stroll through an LCA database will quickly answer any questions about whether Americans are being denied job opportunities or are being displaced with lower paid foreign workers. Just check it out for yourself.

Other practices associated with international labor arbitrage: fake credentials, puffed up resumes, ethnic discrimination (i.e. foreign managers hiring their own folks), violations of tax law (i.e. lawsuit against Tata) are also vile and must not take root here.

If employers don't want to hire older workers, that must be punished as the age discrimination that it is, not merely accepted and endured. America faces a crisis: the baby boomers will either be the biggest burden or the biggest asset, and our decisions about keeping them working will determine that. We baby boomers are not going anywhere, any time soon.

Unless you have been a US citizen for decades and unless members of your families have fought and died in war to protect our country and our way of life you will NEVER UNDERSTAND why we are so upset.

We do not want our country to become what most immigrants legal and illegal are trying to escape.Over population,corrupt governments (which we are fighting to stop now)destruction of our beautiful natural open spaces being covered up by concrete.

People are coming here from countries who are yet to realize having as many children as you can produce with no way to provide for them does 2 things,They become dependent on welfare and add to the over population crisis that is coming soon.If population is not controled and we keep covering up millions of acres of farmland how are we suppose to feed all these people,not to mention the water supply crisis happening now,

ALL immigration needs to stop NOW.

I suggest to would be immigrants get involved in your countries and change your governments instead of turning your backs.A lot of you are college graduates,use your knowlege to effect change in YOUR countries NOT to effect change in ours !!

Very true - here we are looking at renewable biofuels to help curb our dependence on fossil fuels - yet we have already paved over much of our best farmland over the last few decades to accomodate population growth! As somebody once said, growth for growth's sake is the ideology of a cancer cell.

Originally Posted by LegalSkilled

I have been scanning some of your messages and seems like there is an immigrant phobia among the community here.

I am eager to know what is your definiteion of legal immigrants. I live in Brooklyn, NY and all I see is immigrants of various nationalities, running groceries, pharmacies, etc.... I am sure all these immigrants are here for a living just like me.

There are no immigrant phobias here and our definition of legal immigrant is the legal definition. If you are not an American and do not have permission to be in this country then you are an illegal alien.

I have two immigrant (legal) family members, and no one on this forum is confused about legal and illegal.

Dixie

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

Age discrimination here is illegal. In most jobs there is no reason to presume that a younger person is better. There is no good reason to displace older American workers from their jobs and replace them with younger foreign workers, yet this is a main threat of global labor arbitrage.

America faces a crisis in terms of funding Social Security. One main mitigation strategy - which is often overlooked - is to protect older workers in their jobs and make sure that they are allowed to keep working instead of forcing them out and turning them into drawers of resources instead of contributors. (Note: Scandinavia is already leaning towards this) Most of them want to keep working, many of them need to. The answer is not to replace them with younger foreign workers. The baby boomer generation is not aging the same way that earlier generations did. Previous generations had to run a gauntlet of infectious disease and hit-or-miss nutrition that the baby boomers did not. Modern medicine also plays a strong role in keeping baby boomers functional. Some will follow the traditional patterns of aging, many will not.

When I look at foreign job advertisements, I often see shocking examples of blatant age discrimination. Although they have become less obvious about it, it is still possible to find ads with an age ceiling. Many ads still list a maximum experience range that assures that accepted candidates will still be in their twenties. This practice is vile and must not come to America. America fought long and hard to eliminate this, and the last thing we need to do is waste our local talent by turning back a century of labor law progress and regress to the cutthroat competion of the third world. Nobody here wants that. The discriminatory practices seen are products of overpopulation, where there are too many people chasing too few jobs, and that's not how we want to live.

America already has a staggering problem with underemployment, caused by too many people (many of them foreign) chasing too few jobs. America's first responsibility is to the citizens who are legally here, who have no homeland to return to if America doesn't work out for them. There is nothing racist or wrong about this - all the other countries feel the same way and are not shy about framing their laws to enact preference for their own citizens.

The fact that some H-1Bs are indeed paid well doesn't change the fact that most requests are for a low skill level, paid at the 17th percentile of the prevailing wage, which results in pay $12-20K below the real prevailing wage here. How can you tell that H-1B is being abused - it was NEVER supposed to be used to displace an American, yet it often has. A stroll through an LCA database will quickly answer any questions about whether Americans are being denied job opportunities or are being displaced with lower paid foreign workers. Just check it out for yourself.

Other practices associated with international labor arbitrage: fake credentials, puffed up resumes, ethnic discrimination (i.e. foreign managers hiring their own folks), violations of tax law (i.e. lawsuit against Tata) are also vile and must not take root here.

If employers don't want to hire older workers, that must be punished as the age discrimination that it is, not merely accepted and endured. America faces a crisis: the baby boomers will either be the biggest burden or the biggest asset, and our decisions about keeping them working will determine that. We baby boomers are not going anywhere, any time soon.

I hear you and I can understand, things from your perspective. I am a Project Manager, and I have done hiring. When I scroll through dice, and put my filters on only US Citizens, for the job requirements, I do find resumes and I generally do a phone interview before the candidate is invited for a job. Once the candidate my boss, interviews the candidate. My boss never wanted to hire older people for the job of a programmer or a analyst, period. If at all we interviewed h1b candidates, my boss was again keen on the age, which he never publicly agrees or accepts. Unfortunately, thats the reality of the rapidly changing world. it is happening everywhere, changes are happening.

Young immigrant workers come here to pursue their american dream by exhibiting their skills. America welcomes them with a warm hug. It is everyone's dream to be a part of this country and assimilate. Corporates want to hire young fresh new blood. Thats how the process of immigration begins.

Age discrimination is definitely not right, but in the corporate world filled with scandals and mismanagement, I see it as a common phenomena.

Careers like Doctors, Lawyers, Management executives etc... age and experience adds value to careers, but these days even doctors are having a tough time with insurance problems and a lot of docotrs are giving up their careers in their 40s itself.

For IT or technical folks, age works against you. Just not you but also to everyone.

As I see a lot of perspectives, I am making an attempt to understand and trying to walk into your shoes. I am not against you all, I am an activist at immigration voice and also advocating for transperency in the process.

Peace

Age discrimination is not to be accepted or endured in our society, but punished with the full force of American law. Saying 'that's just the way it is' is an unacceptable approach. While lawsuits are hard to win, did you know that age discrimination suits, when won, are the most expensive for companies? We need way more enforcement, not less. And we need way more outrage about this, NOT acceptance and understanding of people's unfounded prejudices.

It's not just about doing the right thing by older workers (although that would certainly be enough reason). It's about keeping smart, energetic and capable older workers producing, and not artificially turning them into cast-off burdens to arbitrarily make way for an opportunistic younger labor force.

if America plans to shut down immigration and thats what you all want, then offcourse, a lot of immigrant's American dream will be shattered, but hey, we all know thats not the end of the world for us

We would prefer more transperency from the govrt agencies and govt rather than publicly bashing hard working immigrants on Lou Dobbs shows and infiltrating govt agencies by taking advantage of their mismanagement will make the govt process look like a govt from a third world country.

If what is happening with us, makes you feel good, something similar may happen to you also, because your immigration departments are functioning like a third world country govt agencies

The idea that older American workers would simply step aside, or passively allow themselves to be shoved aside, to help the third world solve its benighted population problems was - to put it mildly - premature. Our country is still ours, as your country is still yours. There is so much opportunity in other countries now, and so many who are poor and suffering for no good reason. My country is not your job fair. My country needs to get its own people back to working at full capacity. http://www.informationweek.com/news/sho ... =201000479

legalSkilled
I won’t attempt to address every point in your long post. The issues you raised have been thoroughly vetted throughout these boards. You indicated that you had perused the postings so I am certain you have been given a glimpse of our grievances.

There is one of your points that I would like to address directly:

My wife is also on h1b visa and is a physician and pursuing residency at a non profit organization. Most of her patients do not even have a valid photo id and are funded the medicare system. One great thing America can do to humanity - treat these people for free with world's best medical facilities.

You have been in this country long enough to be familiar with the pitfalls we are facing with social security benefits and its subsidiary, Medicare. Lawmakers, citizens and various organizations have been struggling for years to find a solution to the funding deficits that are building up in the program and will eventually bankrupt it. Likewise, I’m sure you have read stories about underprivileged American citizens being called on to choose between buying food or medicine. For the most part these are our senior citizens who have paid into the social security fund all their lives with the expectation that medical care would be available when their earning power had ceased.

Forgive my bluntness, but it is an absurdity for you to suggest that these hurting people should be benevolent enough to support using a program that was funded with their labor to provide medical care for illegal immigrants while their own needs go unmet. This exemplifies the ‘sense of entitlement’ that is so frequently referenced on these boards.

Finally, I would offer one other criticism of your post. While I applaud your accomplishments that have been made possible by our country, I don’t agree that it gives you license to lecture American Citizens about how we ought to think, or how we ought to behave. Battles have to be chosen very carefully.