Thread: Bank of America offering credit cards to illegal immigrants

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

I know that it's true that you don't have to be a citizen to buy insurance because I have purchased short term insurance when I spent protracted periods of time in other countries. If you're going to drive and if your own insurance may not be sufficient (or if the driving there is so risky that you don't want anything there going on your insurance back home) it's a good idea.

But it appears that you did not know that the person was an illegal alien. He could have been a resident alien of someone here on some other visa. In that case, there is no reason not to sell insurance or provide any other service, any more than you would want to be denied services in some other country if you had to spend a protracted period of time there.

BTW - ICE is the enforcement arm of what used to be the INS.

I don't know for a fact that he is an illegal alien. What I do know is that he doesn't have a SSN, doesn't speak English and works as a day laborer.

I know it isn't as good as driving around the city and identifying them (a little dig from a conversation from long ago), but I would say it was a pretty good indication.

So, what is the answer? Do I sell him the policy? Do I refuse and let him drive uninsured (BTW, I represent one of the major personal lines insurance companies in the US so the scenerio described by 'swatchick' doesn't apply), or do I write the policy, call ICE and lose other Hispanic clients?

justfred:

Maybe I missed it in the earlier exchange, but, does this person have a VALID driver's license? With no DL, and based on what you've described the chances this person is legal are rather minimal (IMHO)...

Have you asked him (if he is legally here) ? Although many local law enforcement agencies have 'gag' regs forced on them about such thing, you are free to ask away!

Which state are we talking about here? I ask because only 10 states issue DLs to illegals - most do not.

My short answer: do the correct thing and do not issue a policy. Don't subsidize nor encourage further law-breaking. And besides, when you do the 'right' thing and your fellow Americans see that, you'll never have to worry about a sudden boycott or departure of customers as another large corporations are facing as we speak (Bank of UnAmerica - they lost my business yesterday)

...My 0.02 worth.

Originally Posted by justfred

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

I know that it's true that you don't have to be a citizen to buy insurance because I have purchased short term insurance when I spent protracted periods of time in other countries. If you're going to drive and if your own insurance may not be sufficient (or if the driving there is so risky that you don't want anything there going on your insurance back home) it's a good idea.

But it appears that you did not know that the person was an illegal alien. He could have been a resident alien of someone here on some other visa. In that case, there is no reason not to sell insurance or provide any other service, any more than you would want to be denied services in some other country if you had to spend a protracted period of time there.

BTW - ICE is the enforcement arm of what used to be the INS.

I don't know for a fact that he is an illegal alien. What I do know is that he doesn't have a SSN, doesn't speak English and works as a day laborer.

I know it isn't as good as driving around the city and identifying them (a little dig from a conversation from long ago), but I would say it was a pretty good indication.

So, what is the answer? Do I sell him the policy? Do I refuse and let him drive uninsured (BTW, I represent one of the major personal lines insurance companies in the US so the scenerio described by 'swatchick' doesn't apply), or do I write the policy, call ICE and lose other Hispanic clients?

Well, I guess the answer to your questions depends on the extent to which you feel these people are illegal aliens and, assuming that you are convinced that they are, whether it is more important for you to get their business or to do your duty as a responsible citizen by refusing to serve them and, where possible, by turning them in to ICE.

As it happens, I have a friend in Dallas who owns an insurance agency. If his take on the situation is accurate, then it's not as if your supplying them with insurance policies is really protecting your fellow citizens from their irresponsibility. I'll explain:

According to my friend, most of the policies that he sells to those he believes may well be illegal aliens follow a pattern. These guys come in and buy a month-to-month policy in order to get their "proof of insurance," then never make the follow-up payments on the policy. He said that he has gotten a number of calls from people involved in accidents in which the guilty party presents what appears to be current proof of insurance showing that they have an active policy through his office. What they are apparently doing is taking that first document he provides and then altering the effective date of the policy and photocopying the altered document. To a person at the scene of an accident, the proof of insurance appears legitimate even though the policy may have been cancelled due to non-payment after the first month. Tracking the illegal who provided the falsified document is generally pretty much impossible.

So in other words, in paying for a policy, all they are really paying for is a template of the insurer's proof of liability card, which they then use to make fake documnetation.

That may or may not be the case up there where you are, but that is a common occurrence down here, meaning that the insurers are not helping the problem of uninsured illegal aliens, but rather providing them with a means of creating fake documents.

All that said, I guess that ultimately it is your own conscience that will determine how you handle the issue.

Originally Posted by cvangel

I just called B of A to protest this. They said the credit cards are fully insured and the people who apply for them have to have the money up front. For a $500 credit card they have to have $500. So I brought up the pilot program for home loans they did last year and that I read they plan to expand it.

I told them I'm shopping for a home and I will keep my 2 accounts with them (all true) so I meet the requirements that they have for illegal immigrants. But when I apply for a home loan I will refuse a credit check. The guy said I have to have a credit check. I said "OH NO, no double standards here. You can't have higher requirements for citizens than illegals" I further told him if I was refused financing on that basis or for credit I will sue them for discrimination. The guy got exasperated and kept trying to go back to the credit cards. I kept steering him back to double standards and promotion of illegal activity. At the end he said he understood what I was saying. I told him it's important that B of A understand that point because I surely won't be the only citizen who would take action like that.

The person you spoke with at B of A was not quite up front with you. When applying for a credit card without a SSN or Credit check, the person must have a checking account with no overdrafts for three months. There is a $99 security deposit when the credit card is approve. The credit card has a $500 credit limit. It is a CREDIT card, not a debit card, and not tied to the checking account. At the end of three months, the card holder is reimbursed the $99 security deposit if payments are made on time. After the three month trial period, the card holder may then request a credit limit increase.

A similar credit card is offered to legal residents with a poor credit rating, except they are required to deposit funds into the card account and draw down from it. This is completely different than the card that is being offered to illegal aliens.

I would like to see a few thousand legal residents of this great country open a checking account with a minimum balance, then after three months, apply for a credit card on-line and enter N/A in the Social Security Number field. Of course, we would be required to complete the rest of the fields accurately. If B of A refuses to accept our applications or denies them for insufficient information, I would say we have them by the short hairs. According to the B of A website, qualification and approval is based on "personal observation."

Originally Posted by JuneS_Reston

Originally Posted by cvangel

I just called B of A to protest this. They said the credit cards are fully insured and the people who apply for them have to have the money up front. For a $500 credit card they have to have $500. So I brought up the pilot program for home loans they did last year and that I read they plan to expand it.

I told them I'm shopping for a home and I will keep my 2 accounts with them (all true) so I meet the requirements that they have for illegal immigrants. But when I apply for a home loan I will refuse a credit check. The guy said I have to have a credit check. I said "OH NO, no double standards here. You can't have higher requirements for citizens than illegals" I further told him if I was refused financing on that basis or for credit I will sue them for discrimination. The guy got exasperated and kept trying to go back to the credit cards. I kept steering him back to double standards and promotion of illegal activity. At the end he said he understood what I was saying. I told him it's important that B of A understand that point because I surely won't be the only citizen who would take action like that.

The person you spoke with at B of A was not quite up front with you. When applying for a credit card without a SSN or Credit check, the person must have a checking account with no overdrafts for three months. There is a $99 security deposit when the credit card is approve. The credit card has a $500 credit limit. It is a CREDIT card, not a debit card, and not tied to the checking account. At the end of three months, the card holder is reimbursed the $99 security deposit if payments are made on time. After the three month trial period, the card holder may then request a credit limit increase.

A similar credit card is offered to legal residents with a poor credit rating, except they are required to deposit funds into the card account and draw down from it. This is completely different than the card that is being offered to illegal aliens.

I would like to see a few thousand legal residents of this great country open a checking account with a minimum balance, then after three months, apply for a credit card on-line and enter N/A in the Social Security Number field. Of course, we would be required to complete the rest of the fields accurately. If B of A refuses to accept our applications or denies them for insufficient information, I would say we have them by the short hairs. According to the B of A website, qualification and approval is based on "personal observation."

Well, as it happens, I AM a native born American who has a B of A account and has had one since they merged with NationsBank, which bought out NCNB, which bought out Republic National Bank, which bought out the S&L where I originally opened the account. If you can provide me with the information on the various mortgages, credit cards and other programs offered to illegal aliens, I would be more than happy to go down and see how much of a double standard is being applied by finding out which, if any, of those plans I qualify for. Do you know if these programs are available in Texas?

Originally Posted by JuneS_Reston

A similar credit card is offered to legal residents with a poor credit rating, except they are required to deposit funds into the card account and draw down from it. This is completely different than the card that is being offered to illegal aliens.

I would like to see a few thousand legal residents of this great country open a checking account with a minimum balance, then after three months, apply for a credit card on-line and enter N/A in the Social Security Number field. Of course, we would be required to complete the rest of the fields accurately. If B of A refuses to accept our applications or denies them for insufficient information, I would say we have them by the short hairs. According to the B of A website, qualification and approval is based on "personal observation."

I'm aware of these cards for residents June. They are categorized as "secure credit cards". I like your idea about the credit card applications. And that was what I was trying to point out to them. Don't try to deny us services if we meet the criteria that you're requiring of illegal aliens. We won't be held to higher requirement standards than they have for them.

Originally Posted by justfred

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

I know that it's true that you don't have to be a citizen to buy insurance because I have purchased short term insurance when I spent protracted periods of time in other countries. If you're going to drive and if your own insurance may not be sufficient (or if the driving there is so risky that you don't want anything there going on your insurance back home) it's a good idea.

But it appears that you did not know that the person was an illegal alien. He could have been a resident alien of someone here on some other visa. In that case, there is no reason not to sell insurance or provide any other service, any more than you would want to be denied services in some other country if you had to spend a protracted period of time there.

BTW - ICE is the enforcement arm of what used to be the INS.

I don't know for a fact that he is an illegal alien. What I do know is that he doesn't have a SSN, doesn't speak English and works as a day laborer.

I know it isn't as good as driving around the city and identifying them (a little dig from a conversation from long ago), but I would say it was a pretty good indication.

So, what is the answer? Do I sell him the policy? Do I refuse and let him drive uninsured (BTW, I represent one of the major personal lines insurance companies in the US so the scenerio described by 'swatchick' doesn't apply), or do I write the policy, call ICE and lose other Hispanic clients?

It depends on which state issued the drivers license. Eleven states will issue drivers licenses to "undocumented immigrants" without a SSN. ID includes a utility bills and other documents that show their address as well as a Mexican drivers license. Maryland, as an example requires drivers to be insured and will issue a drivers license without a SSN. As an insurer, you are obligated to provide coverage. How you determine the level of risk and premium is based on the policy of your parent company.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Well, as it happens, I AM a native born American who has a B of A account and has had one since they merged with NationsBank, which bought out NCNB, which bought out Republic National Bank, which bought out the S&L where I originally opened the account. If you can provide me with the information on the various mortgages, credit cards and other programs offered to illegal aliens, I would be more than happy to go down and see how much of a double standard is being applied by finding out which, if any, of those plans I qualify for. Do you know if these programs are available in Texas?

The details of the credit card account, rights and restrictions are detailed in several financial news reports on the internet as well as yesterday's Wall Street Journal report which I posted earlier today.

Currently, I believe this "program" is being tested only in California. However, B of A plans to take it nationwide by year end.

Since this was first reported - yesterday - there has been a tremendous backlash - not only regular folks, but business and financial experts as well. There is a probability that this program may go no further than California if the pressure continues.

One point that no one has raised in this thread is that B of A has branch offices in most of the countries where these illegal aliens are citizens. There is no reason why they should be issuing credit cards in the US, using a lower qualifying standard, when these very same people can apply for a credit card in their country of citizenship legally. We must presume B of A's target market here in the US would not qualify in their own countries, which raises further concerns about this program.

Originally Posted by JuneS_Reston

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Well, as it happens, I AM a native born American who has a B of A account and has had one since they merged with NationsBank, which bought out NCNB, which bought out Republic National Bank, which bought out the S&L where I originally opened the account. If you can provide me with the information on the various mortgages, credit cards and other programs offered to illegal aliens, I would be more than happy to go down and see how much of a double standard is being applied by finding out which, if any, of those plans I qualify for. Do you know if these programs are available in Texas?

The details of the credit card account, rights and restrictions are detailed in several financial news reports on the internet as well as yesterday's Wall Street Journal report which I posted earlier today.

Currently, I believe this "program" is being tested only in California. However, B of A plans to take it nationwide by year end.

Since this was first reported - yesterday - there has been a tremendous backlash - not only regular folks, but business and financial experts as well. There is a probability that this program may go no further than California if the pressure continues.

One point that no one has raised in this thread is that B of A has branch offices in most of the countries where these illegal aliens are citizens. There is no reason why they should be issuing credit cards in the US, using a lower qualifying standard, when these very same people can apply for a credit card in their country of citizenship legally. We must presume B of A's target market here in the US would not qualify in their own countries, which raises further concerns about this program.

June, since you seem to be well informed with respect to this program, perhaps you can answer a question I have not yet seen answered. The claim is that B of A is specifically creating this program for illegal aliens. Is that B of A's characterization or is that a presumption. If B of A is not saying that the program is specifically for aliens or immigrants, upon what direct evidence are the authors of these articles relying to make that determination? Just curious...

I am really mad! I have been 'banking' with BofA for 30 years or more. They have had different name changes, but its the same bank. I dont know what to do. I called to complain and she said I had to send it in writing. I got this address: Bank of America, Customer Relations, PO Box 513609, LA CA 90051.