BEWARE THE Center for New Community. They are Liars.

[ALIPAC]

Devin Burghart:

#1 You can't seem to make a point without writing a small book of material. This not only makes your message unattractive to readers, but you appear to be doing this because you must launch into reams of information unrelated to the point to try and justify your false assertions.

#2 It is not my job to defend VDARE or AmericanPatrol or Barbara Coe etc... They can defend themselves. Any child knows that anyone on the Internet can post or carry any material they like. We are not responsible for their contents, we are not responsible for their actions or motivations. I suggest you take it up with them.

#3 The data you are citing from our campaign reports is many months out of date and no longer accurate. You originally said that the lady you are pestering did not say she wrote those comments. Even if she did, it's a free country and she can say and do as she likes. I'm not that familiar with White Nationalist sites and it is not my job to research them. It is my job to tell them they are not welcome and that is what I have done and what I do.

#4 Your credibility is so low in my book, I would not trust you if you told me it was raining outside. Don't even pretend to be doing us a favor by screening our donors. If helping good groups avoid White Nationalists were your goal, you would have contacted me or my executive officers before ever flinging some propaganda hit piece "Report" out in a press release.

#5. Your request to see our membership list may indicate some mental deficits on your part. I hope you were joking. Please read our privacy statement. Many of our supporters are police officers, teachers, government employees, health care pros etc... The last thing we want is for them to be hounded by left wing fringe groups like yours.

#6 One of the reasons I do not worry about your attacks that much is because they are so constantly flawed. True, we do not ask if someone is a LEGAL immigrant when people sign up as a volunteer or contribute. This may be news to you but several LEGAL immigrants encouraged me to start ALIPAC and have supported us from the beginning. Since that time I have heard from many of our supporters via these Discussion Groups, e-mail, and phone calls. I feel I am very in touch with their feelings and opinions considering the amount of contact I've had with them. Many of our financial supporters have contacted me to express that they are LEGAL immigrants and they are very upset about illegal immigration.

In return, I thank them for their participation and ask them to help me keep an eye out for anything that would be discouraging to LEGAL immigrants in our organization.

#7 Your report is defamatory because it fails to mention that LEGAL immigrants support our organization although we clearly publicize that fact. You have zero evidence to the contrary. Im certain some of our legal immigrants would be willing to speak for us if I asked them to.

##8 Your report is further defamatory because the main focus of your organization has been racism and for you to even imply that we are thus motivated is both false and an insult.

#9 citing our first finance reports as evidence of our organization being small without mentioning to your readers that we had been in operation less than 3 months is an omission lie. You willfully exclude information that would counter the defamatory points you are trying to make.

#10 I do not see gay rights listed as one of your supported agendas and I'd like to know why you are taking issue with our lobbyists wife's father's comments that he does not like the show "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"

#11 You are correct about one thing; we should leave the word Reconquista out of our language since it seems to have some broader historical context than the situation today in America in 2005. The word Aztlan does not even fully apply.

My understanding of history is that nations are not stable constructs, but organizations that change in shape, size, and geography. Having large populations that do not share the same language and culture has been responsible for the break up of nations. Such concerns within the US are justified by history and justified by the groups and individuals that are calling for a separate territory in what is now the SW US.

Now, please show us just one report you have done on Aztlan.net or brownpride.com or the Brown Berets or the Mechistas.

These are overtly racists and hate filled organizations. Where is your report?

Why is your organization busy trying to defame our organization falsely as xenophobic and anti-immigrant while ignoring obvious hate groups? Hell, even the SPLC has Aztlan listed as a hate group.

Our platform has been a work in progress since the beginning. Many Americans are now turning against ALL immigration in reaction to the unprecedented number of illegal aliens currently entering the US.

We support those that legally immigrate while we oppose expansion of our current legal immigration levels or guest worker amnesties as a solution to illegal immigration.

It is our goal to represent the 4 out 5 Americans that are concerned about this issue as best we can and we will continue to adapt our stance to reflect their views as we proceed.

Your goal is obviously to try and stop us and you are clearly willing to mislead people to accomplish this.


After all, you can't debate the issues with us because you LOSE in the eyes of the public. So, you try to go after us instead of debating the issues.

You have just called an organization supported by LEGAL immigrants Xenophobic and anti-immigrant.

It's your credibility that is in the DOG HOUSE. You're a liar and your "report" is a lie. It's a lie because it tries to lead people to false conclusions.

I try not to swat flies when I have a tiger by the tail. I find your antics pathetic. You have lied again about us posting articles that target hispanics with unknown immigration status on our homepage or archives.


W

Ezekiel 25:17. "The path
of the righteous man is beset on
all sides by the inequities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil
men. Blessed is he who, in the
name of charity and good will,
shepherds the weak through the
valley of darkness, for he is truly
his brother's keeper and the finder
of lost children. And I will
strike down upon thee with great
vengeance and furious anger those
who attempt to poison and destroy
my brothers. And you will know my
name is the Lord when I lay my
vengeance upon you."

[naturalglenn]

My Dad when he immigrated here had a job and was legal, his uncle sponsored him. He said that for a period of 3 months he stayed at home learning English, fortunately he was literate in his own language which helps to become literate in others. He said he watched TV and listened to friends without speaking much, read books until he had it down. Then he joined America FULL ON. Anyone who doesn't encourage this is screwed up, I'm sorry.

I asked my Dad, "why did you do that?" " You had no need to sequester yourself, you could be like the rest of unassimilated immigrants, and speak pidgeon".

He said, "I learned understandable English out of respect for the people that live here, it is their language". He also went on to say that he respected himself, and he would never shortchange himself by being so LAZY, so as to leave people he wanted to know, that he was an idiot. He did not wish to marginalize himself. That self interest thing, it is oh so bad.

(no matter what your circumstance be committed to learning, anything, something, besides insinuating yourself on others). There simply no excuse for not trying.

It's our fault too. How can you get a drivers license and be safe if you can't read the freakin signs? When you drive overseas they recommend you bone up on the signs in the places you are going so you don't kill yourself or someone from that country. Just an example.

IT IS LAZINESS!

I won't tell you where my Dad is from and that there probably is going to make burgie fume. cheers glenn

[Bootsie]

I certainly admire your father, naturalglenn. It is people like him who have made America the great country that it is. It is people like Burghart who want to destroy America as we have known it by watering down our language and our culture. I would really LOVE to know WHY he thinks these people WANT to come to a country in which they refuse to assimilate and speak the language. It just makes no sense EXCEPT to prove my theory that the ONLY reason they come is to TAKE EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER WITHOUT GIVING IN RETURN. They don't want to be a PART OF OUR GREAT NATION. They want to TAKE OVER our country.

Another point that I THINK he fails to address is the fact that these people he is defending so fiercely are LAWBREAKERS. Is that the kind of organization he is running??? An organization that supports CRIMINALS? I really wouldn't be bragging if I were he. Frankly, I would be embarassed to cast aspersions at ANY group other than the ones who are breaking the laws of our land. And, if my taxes are paying for this organization, you can bet I will be writing my representatives TOMORROW to demand that any monies being given to this group be stopped. I would rather see my money spent on the rain forest in Iowa or the bridges to nowhere in Alaska than some fringe group like his.

[ALIPAC]

This Thread has been locked by William till the Sunday following Thanksgiving.

Everyone, please enjoy your time with your families and we will resume this discussion Sunday.

William

[ALIPAC]

Welcome back everyone. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I did not want an OBL like Burghart distracting from your family time.


Now, Mr. Burghart... I know you are desparate to redeem your credibility since your first "report" on us is so easily dispatched as a lie and distortion and it completely fizzled with any credible media, but it's to late.

You have already dashed any confidence anyone would have in your work and you've been nailed for it.

You are not in any position to make any demands of this or that.

I'm still waiting to see your "reports" on Aztlan or Brownpride.com Mr. Burghart.

It appears that ALIPAC is doing more to fight hate groups and racism than your New Community. Perhaps we should add that as one of our mission goals?

Your organization is really going to have to close shop if you keep overtly trying to paint non-xenophic groups as such while ignoring REAL hate groups that have clearly been brought to your attention.

I'm not showing you hardly any of my cards Mr. Burghart because you are not even in the game.

You're just mad because you do not enjoy the media profile you once did and you are trying to lose your "Has Been" status by jumping on our profile.

Google "Devin Burghart" 787

Google "William Gheen" 945

Google "Center for New Community" 34,600

Google "Americans for Legal Immigration" 109,000

Now Mr. Burghart, is this information someone sent me about you co-authoring articles with acknowledged communists TRUE?

Yes/No?

W

[naturalglenn]

"It appears that ALIPAC is doing more to fight hate groups and racism than your New Community. Perhaps we should add that as one of our mission goals?"

ABSOLUTELY! Illegal is illegal. the idea that people can come into the United States and simply retain all the are without giving back to our Nation is bigoted at least, racist at worst. As I favor giving people a chance and believe in clemency once offenders are commited to reform, I will only now refer to those not assimilating as simple bigots.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but this issue to me has nothing to do with racism, it is simple law and order, and fairness. we are either a Nation of Laws, governed as such, or we are not.

Mr. Burghart may well be a communist (I read about that) but from his support of blatant law breaking, it is clear he is also an anarchist. cheers glenn

[JuniusJnr]

....but this issue to me has nothing to do with racism, it is simple law and order, and fairness. we are either a Nation of Laws, governed as such, or we are not.

Ditto, Glen.

[newcomm]

Dear Mr. Gheen:

In your post dated Nov 24, 2005 8:40 am, you raise a number of issues. Before I respond to each of the points you make, individually, there are a few things I’d like to address.

Once again you’ve thrown up the same canards and without answering the evidence against you and your claims of defamation. The more you flail about, tossing around wild accusations without a shred of proof, the more desperate you seem and the more your credibility is damaged.

Perhaps that’s why you decided to close the discussion forum?

Interesting strategy for someone who claims to want open debate - launch a lengthy attack, then decide to shut off the discussion for several days. Wasn’t it similar tactics that got you so upset at the Freepers?

To recap: First you declare “operation kick butt� and nothing at all happens. Then you declare “operation ignore idiots� and 19 additional web posts from ALI-PAC supporters appear – including several by you, Mr. Gheen. Guess that makes you 0 for 2 in your self-declared battle against the Center for New Community.

Before you try to use the holiday as an excuse, let me remind you that you were the one who chose the timing. We wrote our report months ago, you just now decided to write us to contend that we’ve defamed you.

Also, it’s also interesting to note that this discussion thread the only one on the ALI-PAC website that you locked. Why is that?

But don’t worry - I understand if you need some time to regroup. You have a lot to answer, afterall. I hope you enjoyed your break. Before we get back to the questions, let’s review the debate to this point.

Points you’ve conceded thusfar:

1. The ALI-PAC membership is much smaller than you initially claimed.

2. That the term “Reconquista� has racist overtones and that the term shouldn’t be used.

3. That you’re not serious about any supposed defamation. You’re just using it as a cudgel to try and stifle debate. (If you meant it, you would have filed a defamation suit).

4. That Ali-PAC’s largest donor is someone who has participated with a white nationalist group, made disparaging ethnic remarks, and supported internment camps.

5. That ALI-PAC is comfortable accepting money from this person.

6. That your statement about only dealing with “illegal immigration� is erroneous, according to your own website.

7. That you are comfortable having your byline appear on an article on the white nationalist website, V-DARE.

8. That you were wrong when you kept referring to the National Council of La Raza as “the race.�

I’m sure I’ve probably missed a few, but that’s a good snapshot of the salient points you’ve conceded to this point.

OK, on to the points you’ve raised.

Sincerely,

Devin Burghart
Director, Building Democracy Initiative
Center for New Community
http://www.buildingdemocracy.org

[newcomm]

#1 You can't seem to make a point without writing a small book of material. This not only makes your message unattractive to readers, but you appear to be doing this because you must launch into reams of information unrelated to the point to try and justify your false assertions.

Dear Mr. Gheen:

First you argue that we don’t provide enough support, then you tell us that we’re providing too much. Which is it? That’s a serious internal contradiction in your argument.

Besides, this isn’t an argument. It is completely non-responsive to the issues raised in my previous posts. A pattern is emerging, Mr. Gheen. It appears as though every time you don’t like how an argument is going, you attack the messenger. (FYI, that’s a logical fallacy).

My posts were merely trying to provide a thorough response to your accusations of defamation. I thought that was only fair. I wanted to provide you with cogent arguments and ample supporting evidence. The information is entirely relevant and on-point.

Sorry, but that takes more time than simply asserting that someone is wrong or calling someone a “liar,� “goon,� “idiot,� or any of the other names that have been thrown at me and the Center for New Community.

Besides, I can’t help it if you provide me so much material to work with.
Sincerely,

Devin Burghart
Director, Building Democracy Initiative
Center for New Community
http://www.buildingdemocracy.org

[newcomm]

#2 It is not my job to defend VDARE or AmericanPatrol or Barbara Coe etc... They can defend themselves. Any child knows that anyone on the Internet can post or carry any material they like. We are not responsible for their contents, we are not responsible for their actions or motivations. I suggest you take it up with them.

Dear Mr. Gheen:

Let’s start with the issue of your authoring an article for a white nationalist website. We take your response as an admission that you’ve done such a thing. So when our next report on ALI-PAC comes out, you won’t claim this is defamation, right?

If you expect to have any credibility whatsoever, where your byline shows up *is* your responsibility. Any child knows that. In this instance, you are completely responsible for their comments – you wrote them!

You could have said that you contacted V-DARE and asked them to remove the article with your byline, but you didn’t. You could have expressed concern that your article was posted there and vowed to take action, but you didn’t. Instead, you tried to pass the buck.

It’s your responsibility to deal with V-DARE, not ours.

But I promise you that if V-DARE ever publishes an article that has my byline, or even claims that an article is written by me, that I will contact them immediately. I will do everything in my power to have that article taken down. Are you willing to say that same?

The reason Barbara Coe came up was beacuse you put forward the excuse that you didn’t know the racially-charged meaning of the term "Reconquista." I pointed out that your attempt to feign ignorance was ludicrous.

You not only shared the stage with her in Las Vegas, you indicated how proud you were to do so, and you’ve regurgitated the same racist conspiracy theories that she has promoted for years.

You do have a responsibility for who you share a platform with, Mr. Gheen. Everyone knows that. Ask any politician.

As we’ve already explained, Coe is an avid supporter of the Reconquista conspiracy theory and vehemently anti-Latino. She commented in typical fashion during her Los Vegas presentation: “We are suffering robbery, rape, and murder of law-abiding citizens at the hands of illegal barbarians who are cutting off heads and appendages of blind, white, disabled gringos.� She added, speaking of the United States: “This is a New World Order regime and Third World people will easily accept this tyranny. These people are traitors. They are a malignancy destroying the host.�

Coe has stated elsewhere that “The goals of the Mexican government� include the conquest of “all the southwestern states for Mexico as the ‘NATION OF AZTLAN,� the “Take over & control the United States government� and to “Establish communism in the United States.�

Remember, that’s who you were proud of sharing the stage with in Vegas.

Sincerely,

Devin Burghart
Director, Building Democracy Initiative
Center for New Community
http://www.buildingdemocracy.org