Thread: President Trump and the Black vote

Originally Posted by MW

Judy wrote (excerpt):



How convenient. I noticed that you forget to include one very important fact. What you're calling a myth was in fact backed by statistical data from actual drug testing of those surveyed. Furthermore, considering more blacks are actually arrested for crimes, it stands to reason that many of them could also be charged with possession of a drug during the search process which would explain the number of drug arrests. Personally, I think some of your argument is full of holes and is lacking in actual data and statistical support.

As of 2016 the white population was 61.3%. Blacks were the largest minority group at 12.7% and Hispanics were the largest ethnic minority at 17.8%.

Who surveyed those who were drug tested? Why were they drug tested and then surveyed? That doesn't make any sense. They were arrested and THEN surveyed. You can't use a racist cause that produces a racist result to defend racist actions. Based on our population demographics, there should be no more than 100,000 black Americans in prison for non-violent drug offenses. PERIOD. And since we KNOW that the whole land-based illicit drug trade is controlled by Hispanics, there should be 600,000 Hispanics in prison for drug trafficking, not 600,000 black Americans. You dug yourself a hole deeper than you can see out of, and you're stuck in it now.

Originally Posted by Boomslang

Judy, you are leathal...

I forgot to add my link to the LEAP website. They've changed their name from Law Enforcement Against Prohibition to Law Enforcement Action Partnership and here is the link which I added to my post above, but for your convenience, here it is:

https://lawenforcementactionpartners...us/who-we-are/



Republicans must wake up and take action to end this War on Drugs Travesty. I think they will, too. Spread the word far and wide.

Originally Posted by Judy

Why would black Americans and women not be suited for jobs?!!! You are concerned with a fallacy. Sure, there may be some physical work that some women aren't suited for due to lack of strength, but that would not apply to black men. Otherwise, I can't think of any job that blacks wouldn't be "suited for".

If a person can't do math, Walmart isn't going to hire them as a cashier. If they are that uneducated, a janitor may be all they can be. It isn't their capability, it is what they are skilled at. And few companies are going the pay the same wages to someone with skills doing a job they have the skill to do as someone with no specific skills. So there ends up being a pay differential.

Originally Posted by Judy

Black Americans use drugs at the same rates as whites and in fact in certain groups like pregnant women use them less. So why are our prisons filled with black Americans on non-violent drug charges 6 to 1 compared to whites?

I have no personal knowledge to draw from. So I am dependent on what is reported.

Originally Posted by Judy

The War on Drugs turned out to be a race war.

I don't buy that. Drugs seem to be used more in poverty stricken groups. That includes alcoholism. Sort of like there is nothing else to do.

Originally Posted by Judy

That's why our prisons are full of blacks and the drug business grows steadily each year completely unimpeded. That's why we need to end the War on Drugs, legalize, regulate, educate, tax and rehabilitate.

I don't agree! We need changes, but to give up the fight is to lose. The argument that legalizing drugs will take away the market is bogus. Look at marijuana. In places where it has been legalized, drug dealers come up with special mixes, enhancements which can be worse. Criminals will try to create a new market when there is no market for what they are selling. The result is marijuana cookies that kids eat.

Originally Posted by Judy

Your environment in Orange County may leave you with a void about black people, because practically speaking, there aren't many blacks in California.

While it may not be the deep South, and I didn't grow up in the ghetto, I was quite close to Watts and the Watts Riots. When Reginald Denny was beat up at Florence and Normandie, I hauled for that company on that same route to that same plant many times.

One of the truckers I worked with grew up in Watts. But he pulled himself out of that hellhole, had his own trucking business, had a wife and two kids and lived in Glendora. One day when he and several drivers delivered to a job in Watts, he said kids were painting graffiti on the trucks when the drivers went into the job. When he pulled up, there were three teenagers eying over his truck. He statred at them and they said, "your cool bro". He repsonded, "I'm not your bro." They didn't bother his truck.

I watch Charles Payne on a townhall on Fox. One guy referred to him as "bro" and he gave that same response "I'm not your bro."

By contrast, you have Colin Kaeperneck who was brought up in "white privilege" only to claim to be a victim. Same with Obama. It is, for them, a choice.

Originally Posted by Judy

No, our anti-discrimination laws that were supposed to be passed to protect the rights of black Americans

And has all that affirmative action balanced the earnings potential for Blacks? NO!

Originally Posted by Judy

No socialism is not the answer. Socialism isn't even the request.

Then how are you going to guarantee equal pay for everyone?

Originally Posted by Judy

Black Americans have never asked for socialism.

No, it was given to them by government. But it only made them more dependent on government.

Originally Posted by Judy

You have seen black Americans break the plumbing and tear up the roofs of their schools?!!! Fascinating, please do tell me more!

In South LA/Watts, companies built stores in the neighborhoods. But between riots and vandalism, many gave up. You see this in may areas where there have been riots and uprisings. They destroy their own businesses and neighborhoods. SCHOOLS IN THE AREA WERE ALSO VANDALIZED. It was hard to find teachers willing to work in those schools. The kids were so undisciplined, teachers feared for their own safety.

Originally Posted by Judy

Based on our population demographics, there should be no more than 100,000 black Americans in prison for non-violent drug offenses.

So we must jail based on a quota?

jtdc, what would being able to do math have to do with their race? What does being uneducated have to do with race? You think illegal aliens can do math? You think illegal aliens are educated? They get jobs. Blacks can do math quite well actually and most have good educations. Yet, they can't get jobs because the jobs were given to illegal aliens who actually can't do math, who actually are uneducated, and 90% of them can't even speak or read a word of English to follow or read instructions. But they get jobs! They get all types of jobs in California and all over the country!

Oh, so you didn't actually see any black Americans tearing up the plumbing or the roofs of school buildings. You're talking about Low Income Housing Projects, the inner city no income slave cabins. If you saw it after the fact, you don't really know who did the damage. These copper thieves and metal scrappers come in all colors and shades. I know this first-hand.

Affirmative Action hasn't worked because most people cheated. Affirmative Action was sold to protect blacks from discrimination, but instead of protecting them, it sold them out to Hispanics, who are mostly Caucasian. There's a few black Hispanics, but not many. And it was so easy to cheat, the Hispanics got sold out for illegal aliens. Affirmative Action failed because no one enforced it as it was intended and written.

Employers have to figure out how to comply with equal pay for equal work. I realize in a lot of professional jobs, it's a little more complicated with more variables and flexibility to cheat both blacks and women, but in the blue collar trades, there's no excuse for any pay discrimination at all.

However, if people in charge of hiring and managing a work force believe that because someone is black, they can't do math, they're uneducated, and/or going to tear-up the place, then the problem isn't the black applicants who want and need a job, the problem is the person in charge of hiring and managing employees.

Lack of jobs made many blacks dependent on government, same as white people on welfare. When employers stop cheating blacks and other Americans as well out of their jobs, there will be far less Americans of all races on welfare.

Trump knows this and he's going to fix it, from the ground up.

Originally Posted by Judy

Who surveyed those who were drug tested? Why were they drug tested and then surveyed? That doesn't make any sense. They were arrested and THEN surveyed. You can't use a racist cause that produces a racist result to defend racist actions. Based on our population demographics, there should be no more than 100,000 black Americans in prison for non-violent drug offenses. PERIOD. And since we KNOW that the whole land-based illicit drug trade is controlled by Hispanics, there should be 600,000 Hispanics in prison for drug trafficking, not 600,000 black Americans. You dug yourself a hole deeper than you can see out of, and you're stuck in it now.

What a ridiculous thing to say! Are you actually saying we should ignore some crimes because of the color of someones skin? That's what it sounds like to me. I'm just going to assume you misspoke.

What hole did I dig myself? Just because the things I've said don't match Judy's truth doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Believe it or not, there are a lot of Judy's truths that frequently don't pan out as actual truth.

Originally Posted by jtdc

So we must jail based on a quota?

Yeah, pretty much. When you spend all your time in black communities enforcing drug laws, you're violating the 14th Amendment and the US Civil Rights Act. While you're wasting your time and our money hunting down blacks for some weed or crack to lock ' em up, prosecute, incarcerate, felonize, devoterize, and permanently ruin their lives economically and politically, on the other side of town 64,000 white people are dying from illegal opioid products.

Here's an article you might want to read:

Why Is The Opioid Epidemic Overwhelmingly White?

November 4, 20175:43 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered

The opioid epidemic is ravaging large parts of the American population. But some races are being hit harder than others. Dr. Andrew Kolodny, a drug abuse expert, explains why that might be the case.

NOEL KING, HOST:

An opioid epidemic is ravaging parts of this country. President Trump has declared it a public health emergency. Last year, overdoses killed some 64,000 people. It's being compared to the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and '90s. The face of the opioid epidemic has been mostly white, and that's because we have seen a massive increase in drug overdoses among young white adults, often in rural areas. But what's been happening in black and Latino communities? For answers, we called up Dr. Andrew Kolodny. He's co-director of the Opioid Policy Research Collaborative at Brandeis. Dr. Kolodny, thanks for coming on.

ANDREW KOLODNY: Thanks for having me.

KING: So by the numbers, white communities do seem to be suffering the most from this epidemic or impacted the most. How is opioid addiction affecting black and Latino communities?

KOLODNY: So our new opioid addiction epidemic is sparing African-American and Latino communities, and it's striking when you look at the data. Whether you're looking at overdose deaths or emergency room visits for opioid use problems or treatment admissions for opiate addiction, it's very clear that this epidemic is overwhelmingly white. And it begs the question, why? I can share with you a theory, and it is a theory that's based on evidence.

Something that we do know is that doctors prescribe narcotics more cautiously to their non-white patients. It would seem that if the patient is black, the doctor is more concerned about the patient becoming addicted, or maybe they're more concerned about the patient selling their pills, or maybe they are less concerned about pain in that population. But the black patient is less likely to be prescribed narcotics, and therefore less likely to wind up becoming addicted to the medication. So what I believe is happening is that racial stereotyping is having a protective effect on non-white populations.

KING: Are doctors acknowledging that they're less likely to prescribe narcotics, pain medication, to black and Latino patients?

KOLODNY: I don't think they're aware of it. I think this happens on an unconscious level.

KING: This isn't, of course, the first time that the U.S. has faced a drug epidemic. There's crack cocaine in the '80s and '90s. That was often affecting black communities. Is the response to this crisis different?

KOLODNY: Very different.

KING: Why?

KOLODNY: What we saw from policymakers, what we got from policymakers was a message that we could potentially arrest our way out of the problem. What we got was a war on drugs and a crackdown on crime. What we're seeing now is a very different response now that we've got an addiction epidemic that's disproportionately white. What we're hearing from policymakers, even conservative Republican politicians when they talk about the opioid crisis, many begin by saying, we can't arrest our way out of this. We have to see that people who are addicted can access effective treatment. We didn't hear that during the crack cocaine epidemic. It's good that we're hearing it now. It's too bad we didn't hear it then.

KING: President Trump interestingly has declared this crisis a public health emergency but not a national emergency. If it was a national emergency, that would allow federal funding, even access to FEMA funds to go toward treating it. Does this fall short? Do you think of a national emergency? What's the difference?

KOLODNY: Well, you know, I don't know that the problem is so much the type of national emergency or public health emergency that was designated. My concern is that what we haven't received from the Trump administration is a plan for addressing the problem or a request from Congress for funding.

KING: What would a solution, what would a new system look like?

KOLODNY: One of the first things that we have to do is we have to prevent more people from becoming addicted to opioids, and that's not lecturing to kids, don't do drugs. More than anything else, that's about promoting much more cautious prescribing so that we don't directly addict patients and so that people don't indirectly become addicted because we've stocked everybody's home with a highly addictive drug. But we also have to recognize, now that the genie is out of the bottle, millions of Americans are suffering from opioid addiction. We have to see that they can access the most effective treatments very easily.

If you're opioid addicted, when you wake up in the morning you're going to need to use an opioid pretty quickly or you're going to be feeling very sick. We want that individual to be able to access effective outpatient treatment more easily than they can access pain pills, heroin or fentanyl. If that person wakes up and they've got $20 in their pocket and they know where to go get heroin, that is what they're going to do. We want that person to be able to walk into a treatment center, regardless of their ability to pay for their care, and to be started on treatment - outpatient treatment, that same day.

KING: Dr. Andrew Kolodny is co-director of the Opioid Policy Research Collaborative at Brandeis. Dr. Kolodny, thank you so much for joining us.

KOLODNY: Thank you for having me.

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https://www.npr.org/2017/11/04/56213...elmingly-white

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Where was law enforcement? The first I heard of this was from Donald Trump during his campaign in New Hampshire. Americans didn't know anything about this horrible thing happening in our country until Trump ran for President and some good people told him about it in New Hampshire and then Trump tells US and then we find out the details. We didn't hear about this from Governors or legislators or police officers or DEA .... oh no, we learned about this from Donald J Trump.

So, we need to end the War on Drugs, legalize, regulate, educate, tax and rehabilitate. Make it all a domestic enterprise run A to Z by licensed US citizens from A to Z, no imports no exports, and stop worrying about it. For over 100 years, the evidence is the same, approximately 2% of our population will be addicted to drugs. That's what it was in 1913 and that's what it is today. So they need either medical help or be left alone. The rest of recreational drug users who use for awhile for fun, or kicks, or whatever, but use light fare, pot, coke, speed, and move on. They're able to pretty much take or leave it and it doesn't ruin their lives or cause any real problems. It can though if we don't regulate the products, so that's why I support legalization.

I never used drugs so have no first-hand knowledge about them, it just never appealed to me, but I have friends who have and some who still use pot occasionally and they live great lives, graduated from college, got married, have great kids, held good jobs and were just not negatively impacted by their drug use. But they could have been ruined by an arrest and a drug charge. Fortunately none were. But in black communities, the story is very different because they were targeted, and that is just plain wrong.

Originally Posted by MW

What a ridiculous thing to say! Are you actually saying we should ignore some crimes because of the color of someones skin? That's what it sounds like to me. I'm just going to assume you misspoke.

What hole did I dig myself? Just because the things I've said don't match Judy's truth doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Believe it or not, there are a lot of Judy's truths that frequently don't pan out as actual truth.

No, I'm saying you apply the law equally. Are you telling me you don't know what that means?

Judy wrote (excerpt):

Yeah, pretty much. When you spend all your time in black communities enforcing drug laws, you're violating the 14th Amendment and the US Civil Rights Act. While you're wasting your time and our money hunting down blacks for some weed or crack to lock ' em up, prosecute, incarcerate, felonize, devoterize, and permanently ruin their lives economically and politically, on the other side of town 64,000 white people are dying from illegal opioid products.

I know this comment was directed at me, however, I would like to respond to it.

Did you even bother to read the article I posted earlier in the thread? One of the reasons drug charges are brought against blacks is so high is because they are often found in possession while being arrested for another crimes. So it is not that the police are running down weed smokers and cocaine abusers. These drug are often found while a search is being performed because of another crime.

Uuh, no, it didn't have anything to do with you. It was directed to law enforcement spending all their time and our money enforcing drug laws in black communities.

There may be other blacks in prison for other crimes. The statistic I'm using of the 800,000 non-violent drug charges is just non-violent drug charges. People in prison solely for a non-violent drug charge. 600,000 of those 800,000 are black. That is the result of illegal civil rights abuses targeting blacks as a matter of police policy. It violates the 14th Amendment and the US Civil Rights Act. Everyone knows that, the question is how m any Americans care enough to put an end to it. It's a telling time in our country and I think Trump will put an end to it, as he should. I sure hope so anyway.