Thread: REAL ID A REALITY

Originally Posted by Americanpatriot

Originally Posted by usanevada

Keep in mind that the real id act means nothing to most Americans

If you have a home commputer hooked up to the internet , if you have a job or a drivers license , if you have a credit card or credit accounts or a bank account

The govt can find you in 5 minutes

So whats the big deal ?

If real id keeps millions of illegals from passing off as legal

then I don't have a problem
The govt can find you , they found me just from a post on the
internet

I know they can and I haven't worried because I have nothing to hide.

I always thought if they were listening to me and watching me they would be very bored. All I do is work and try not to get to paranoid.

Me too, americanpatriot. They would be so bored listening to my life. BUT I THINK THEY WOULD BE PROUD TO SEE ME BEING AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF ALIPAC. LOL.

Originally Posted by Ex_OC

Originally Posted by Americanpatriot

Originally Posted by usanevada

Keep in mind that the real id act means nothing to most Americans

If you have a home commputer hooked up to the internet , if you have a job or a drivers license , if you have a credit card or credit accounts or a bank account

The govt can find you in 5 minutes

So whats the big deal ?

If real id keeps millions of illegals from passing off as legal

then I don't have a problem
The govt can find you , they found me just from a post on the
internet

I know they can and I haven't worried because I have nothing to hide.

I always thought if they were listening to me and watching me they would be very bored. All I do is work and try not to get to paranoid.

Me too, americanpatriot. They would be so bored listening to my life. BUT I THINK THEY WOULD BE PROUD TO SEE ME BEING AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF ALIPAC. LOL.

I feel much better and do trust the people on ALIPAC very much and don't want to argue just for sake of arguing. Because if we are United we are a force to deal with. I wish I could spell better though. I will look up Terry Anderson's web site. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Ex_OC

OK, Gorwell.

First of all, I am not a big fan of Napolitano. Her state, Arizona, is overwhelmed with illegal aliens, and she RELUCTANTLY signed into law what the voters OVERWHELMING VOTED FOR. Yes, the word "reluctantly" has been described of her signing these laws. Napolitano is a career politician, as far as her record goes, and that is why I view her with a lof of doubt.

But I still don't see how the REAL ID Act is moving towards a police state. It sounds like you have no faith in We The People. Personally, I don't really give a hoot if the govt wants to know what I had for breakfast or where I opened my latest bank account or even if they knew my latest gossip about my neighbor. WHO CARES?

You forget that the people you say are "spying" on you are American citizens as well. Are you saying that American citizens are like the Gestapo? I just refuse to think that. I may be naive for thinking this, but I continue to think this way if I am to love this country and all it stands for.

It sounds to me -- after reading 4 pages of this -- like there are 2 kinds of people who are against the REAL ID Act: 1) those who read too many spy novels, and 2) those who are paranoid about their personal lives.

I, for one, am neither. I have nothing to hide, as one poster said here. The true Nirvana is when everybody in a country follows the law, and therefore has nothing to hide. I know this may never happen, but I cling to the hope that MOST AMERICANS have nothing to hide. And I think I am right about that.

Realistically speaking, GOrwell, if ALL states went for the REAL ID Act, then the sheer volume of spying would be too overwhelming for the govt "spies" to monitor. They will skip over what you had for breakfast, and instead concentrate on the real terrorists. Yes?

The reality is that nineteen -- 19 -- people have driven us to this point. I always think about when I am in an airport. I think about how 19 human beings have managed to hostage the whole world, at least in terms of air travel. How sad is that. But, as I wait patiently in line to be security-checked, I am grateful that my life is being looked after by my govt, however inconvenient that may be.

We live in a different age, GOrwell. Terrorism used to be a European thing. But after 9/11, it has come to our shores. I was naive about that too. I should have known that it was just a matter of time before it came here.
So, yes, I am willing to forgo some of my civil liberties FOR THE SAKE OF THE NATION AS A WHOLE. Like I said, we live in different times. BUT, there is no indication that the REAL ID Act is forcing our history towards a police state BECAUSE OF WE THE PEOPLE. Not ONCE in America's history has that ever happened. We are so different from the rest of the world in that respect. Maybe that is why so many people want to live here.

GOrwell, WHAT SETS AMERICA APART FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD IS WE THE PEOPLE. We are not as weak as you think we are. Americans can throw a big stink, as we did in June 2007 with the CIR. This is a different age, and a huge part of that difference is WE THE PEOPLE. I am willing to give the REAL ID Act a chance. We just need to keep on top of it. But that's what We The People should be doing anyway, right?

haha, I am talking about judge andrew napolitano, lmao... you shoudl watch what he has to say, this is the short version but there is 4 parts of his speech on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNRSs6LsGeI

the 4th amendment is set up to protect our privacy, you might be fine with the government knowing everything you do, but I am not, and I have the constitution on my side...

[quote=Ex_OC]

Originally Posted by GOrwell

Originally Posted by "Ex_OC":1o2xnu1z

Originally Posted by GOrwell

I don't know how people don't think we are moving toward a police state, this is old news but I just found out about it.

Swat in Dallas is now raiding poker games.
http://www.reason.tv/video/show/172.html

I watched the clip, GOrwell. I don't see how this is related to the REAL ID Act. This was a bunch of people who did not know about their state's law and got caught. Yes, it is sad, but I don't see how it relates to the REAL ID Act.

no, i was just proving a point, if you read all the post my previous post where saying how we are moving towards a police state and th e real id is part of that, just a card to control us and put us at their mercy...

this was just an example...

"This was just an example???" Are you kidding me? You agreed with me that these people didn't know that law and they were caught. It has nothing to do with the REAL ID Act.

OK, you can redeem yourself by saying -- step by step -- how this clip relates to proving your point, as you say. And I do mean STEP BY STEP.[/quote:1o2xnu1z]

you dont think its ridiculous to have swat breaking up friendly poker games?
first gambling shouldn't even be illegal but that is beyond the point we now have swat going in with guns drawn to arrest friend playing poker, wtf...

you need to stop drinking the cool aid, government does not work for you, look at all the policies being implemented now only in totalitarian states have they been implemented... as I was saying the president now has the power to put someone in jail for 3 years WITHOUT charging him, the fbi can write their OWN warrants, no more going to a judge, they can spy on your conversations etc.

Maybe what you discuss is not important but I actually do discuss important information on the phone information that I dont want anyone else knowing, and no its not illegal information not even personal information...

the constitution protects my privacy, now we have a government that wants US to prove our innocence instead of them proving we are guilty...

I do not relate at all with the people here trying to use reverse phychology to convince others that the real ID act is OK.

This also has to do with State rights over Federal Government. If the people here who like the real ID act want this on the State level then move away from where I live (California) and have at it. I do not want the Federal Government imposing in on State Legislation with this Real ID nonsense.

I do not have anything to hide and in fact people like me are the ones that should be complaining the most. How would the quote go in relation to State verses Federal Government...:

when the fed started the IRS I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed started social security I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed started "excessive Departments of" I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed extended unrelated wars in foriegn countries for their buddy's "no bid contracts" I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

etc... ect... ect...

All of us can fill in the problem results with each above and so on and so on also the Real ID act is another one that will have a result of problems for our citizens!

"give me Liberty or give me death"

Originally Posted by sturmruger

I do not relate at all with the people here trying to use reverse phychology to convince others that the real ID act is OK.

This also has to do with State rights over Federal Government. If the people here who like the real ID act want this on the State level then move away from where I live (California) and have at it. I do not want the Federal Government imposing in on State Legislation with this Real ID nonsense.

I do not have anything to hide and in fact people like me are the ones that should be complaining the most. How would the quote go in relation to State verses Federal Government...:

when the fed started the IRS I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed started social security I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed started "excessive Departments of" I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

when the fed extended unrelated wars in foriegn countries for their buddy's "no bid contracts" I had nothing to hide so I said nothing...

etc... ect... ect...

All of us can fill in the problem results with each above and so on and so on also the Real ID act is another one that will have a result of problems for our citizens!

"give me Liberty or give me death"

There will be many of us that will have our own opinion on this issue---as well as many others!!

I don't follow the logic of those that say, if the Real ID is passed, we'll be able to get rid of the illegal aliens in the U.S. It is obvious our government has no strong desire to get rid of these illegals - why would anyone think the Federal government's attitude will change with the Real ID? Can you not already hear the arguments about how removing the illegals would cripple our economy?

It's not like armies of senators and representatives are waiting in the wings for the Real ID so they can 'clean up the country'. Come on.

I guarantee you that the only people the Real ID will affect and end up controlling are the law-abiding citizens of this country. They are the only ones who have something to lose by not following the law.

The worst thing that would happen to an illegal alien in a Real ID world is deportation. They just come back a day later and start working under the table elsewhere. On the other hand, the worst conceivable thing that could happen to an American citizen in a Real ID world is a ban on travel, locked bank accounts and cash resources, ruined credit history, barred from visiting one's representative and government facilities, not to mention the absolute disappearance of any privacy. And the technology certainly exists to turn these new ID cards into wireless tracking devices.

The Real ID, coupled with modern IT, literally surpasses George Orwell's Big Brother government in technical and monitoring capabilities.

I reread the article again.

It seems like the Real ID will replace our current DL. The objective is "One driver, One ID." There will be no microchip, as some thought. In order to get one, you must have a valid SS # and legal presence in the US. Those who apply with passports will be verified thru the State Department. It will have 3 layers of security measures, I presume to prevent it from being duplicated. States will choose which layers of security they want.

So if this is just a new and improved and unforgeable DL, I don't have a problem with it. It will just have the same info that my present DL has. And from experience, my DL has never been swiped (except by cops). Usually, it is just shown and looked at. I don't think my whole life is going to be on this new DL. Just my name, height, weight, etc.

I think what is scaring people is the "security measures." But if I am reading the article correctly, the security measures are just so it can't be duplicated. Also, with the security measures, illegal document mills can't create DLs willy nilly for illegal aliens. I think that's a great idea! It's like the security things they put on our dollar bills to catch counterfeiting. So this is good for our cause of "NO DLs for Illegals."

Also, if it's all about "One driver, One ID" then terrorists cannot go from state to state, amassing a cache of DL. (Why terrorists need so many DLs, I don't know.) How they're going to do this, I don't know. Maybe there will be one central database of all DLs issued. Kinda like one central DMV. Like I said, I don't know.

So, my new question is Is there going to be only 1 design for all of us? Like the passport? One design with your state of residence printed somewhere? That would make more sense if they want uniformity. With one design, it would make it easier for authorities to verify, no matter what airport you are in.

I'm not naive to think this will solve all the problems of terrorists and illegal aliens. But I think it's a good start and a great deterrant. If the info on the ID is just ID info, like what we have now in our DLs, then it really won't affect us in any other way.

I just got a new passport. It has a microchip in it. I think all new passports have them. The microchip is just for authenticity purposes. Immigrations swipes it in a machine that will come up with your photo and the same information that's on your hard-copy passport. The chip has a security feature which will be triggered if the chip is altered in any way. Frankly, I am glad that they are looking out for fake passports. So if you are really concerned about microchips, I don't know what you will do when you need a new passport. They all have them.

Here in Nevada they have already put the Real id act into play

All it means here is that when I go to renew my drivers license
next year I will have to bring my birth cert and wait 3 weeks
to recieve my new license in the mail

Thats it ,

Ex-co said:

We live in a different age, GOrwell. Terrorism used to be a European thing. But after 9/11, it has come to our shores. I was naive about that too. I should have known that it was just a matter of time before it came here.
So, yes, I am willing to forgo some of my civil liberties FOR THE SAKE OF THE NATION AS A WHOLE. Like I said, we live in different times. BUT, there is no indication that the REAL ID Act is forcing our history towards a police state BECAUSE OF WE THE PEOPLE. Not ONCE in America's history has that ever happened. We are so different from the rest of the world in that respect. Maybe that is why so many people want to live here.

The fact that you're willing to say you'd give up some of your civil liberties for the sake of the nation worries me. This is exactly how the powers that be want people to think so they can control the masses. They can't control people unless they put fear in them. A person doesn't have to read spy novels or have anything to hide to not want this kind of control. Giving up your liberties for the common good is exactly what they want you to do so they proceed with the NAU. It's naive to think that the RealID is not the first step in that direction. And there is a chip in the card. It's the only way it can be tamper proof. The Constitution guarantees us of freedom and liberty and no one should be willing to give up any of their rights for the common good under any circumstances.