Thread: Enforcing Current Immigration Laws Will Recover Eight Millio

Originally Posted by Lstudent

I think I understand your points. Thanks for taking the time to have a thorough discussion, No Bueno and Judy!

You're most welcome, Lstudent.

Originally Posted by vortex

Lstudent is right. From what I have heard recently is that Nassau County has turned into an illegal alien stronghold. My family has a long history there, and my grandmom served as county administrator for a few years. I found out the problems when I hired a young man that recently arrived to NC from Islip, and he had to leave, he said, as he only spoke English.

That's a real shame. I'd say the local law enforcement agencies aren't doig their job. They need to do some research, conduct fact-finding, investigate, take tips, follow up, and prepare search/arrest warrants and if successful make the arrests and deport the illegal aliens.

Unless 287(g) is mandated, along with E-Verify, there are plenty who will claim "not my yob." How often have I read that here I cannot count.

I used it the word "latino" and "non-english speaking" to highlight the difficulties in obtaining probable cause for an arrest of someone residing in the United States illegally.

Since the majority of Illegal Immigrants are of Latin Descent, and many don't speak English(which are characteristics of many legal immigrants as well), it shows the difficulties in obtaining probable cause.

What is "yob"?

Originally Posted by Lstudent

I used it the word "latino" and "non-english speaking" to highlight the difficulties in obtaining probable cause for an arrest of someone residing in the United States illegally.

Since the majority of Illegal Immigrants are of Latin Descent, and many don't speak English(which are characteristics of many legal immigrants as well), it shows the difficulties in obtaining probable cause.

Why would the inability to speak English be a factor in obtaining probable cause? First off, most police agencies have bilingual officers, In addition, probable cause can be gained by any number of factors, including observations, behavior and other factors not dependant on direct examination via conversation.

Those in the country legally can usually verify that fact through the presentation of Gov.issued identification, irrespective of the language they are speaking.

So in short, I guess I'm somewhat confused by this statement. What does speaking a language other than English have to do with establishing PC?

Please enlighten me.

You wrote:

"The same way they ascertain and arrest US citizens suspected of violating our laws. They either have an exigent circumstance, suspicious behavior, tip, investigation, a search warrant or an arrest warrant."

This is circular because of all of the methods you listed "exigent circumstances, suspicious behavior, tip, investigation, a search warrant or an arrest warrant", SPECIFIC FACTORS are needed in order to employ any of these methods. Please, aside from the tip, list specific factors that can be used to give law enforcement probable cause to ascertain whether an individual is illegally present in the United States.

I shall reply once I get a reply from my latest post. (it will make things less confusing)

Originally Posted by Lstudent

I used it the word "latino" and "non-english speaking" to highlight the difficulties in obtaining probable cause for an arrest of someone residing in the United States illegally.

Since the majority of Illegal Immigrants are of Latin Descent, and many don't speak English(which are characteristics of many legal immigrants as well), it shows the difficulties in obtaining probable cause.

What difficulties? Legal immigrants will have visas or green cards. US citizens will have records all the way back to their birth records or naturalization.

Law enforcement does their research in advance to establish probable cause for an arrest or reasonable suspicion for a search arrest which if the search warrant is successful, then they have their probable cause to make the arrest depending on the success of the search.

Are you aware of the difference between reasonable suspicion for a search warrant versus probable cause for an arrest?

Take air travel today. Americans are searched at every airport without any reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

Take daily life. Police knock on doors investigating all types of things, ask all kinds of questions, ask to come in, look all around, as a matter of course. If something looks suspicious or illegal, they call in for a warrant and come back, if they find what they were looking for, they make arrests. If you resist, they arrest you. I give you the professor in Boston.

Take traffic check points today. Americans are stopped all the time without any reasonable suspicion or probable cause. They ask to see your license and registration, shine the light in your eyes and then all around your car and if they want, they ask you to open your trunk, they bring the dogs out, with no reasonable suspicion at all and absolutely no probable cause.

Police have the right to investigate, they have the right to hunt, to seek out, to search for and find criminal wrong-doers on the streets, on the highways, in homes, in businesses, retail stores, schools, public buildings, just about anywhere they want to roam. You have two choices, cooperate or resist, in which they case leave and come back with a warrant. They might find something, they might find nothing, but they'll have the reasonable suspicion for a warrant or no judge will give them a search warrant.

I'm confident that local law enforcement will have both the reasonable suspicion and probable cause to make the arrests on the same level of accuracy that they enforce every other law in our country. Sure, there will be some mistakes, but that happens in every course of law enforement action. That's why we have trials and in the case of illegal immigration, deportation hearings prior to a Deportation Order being issued.

So, you can rest assured that no illegal alien will be wrongfully deported.

you wrote "reasonable suspicion for a search arrest which if the search warrant is successful, then they have their probable cause to make the arrest depending on the success of the search."

reasonable suspicion, in most situations, is not enough to obtain a search warrant. Probable Cause is required.

A search warrant can be obtained if they have "probable cause" to believe that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched or that evidence of a crime may be found there."

Airports are an exception because of exigent circumstances.

Police can knock on doors and ask questions, but without a search warrant obtained based upon probable cause, they cannot go further unless the person they are questioning/wanting to search consents.

Traffic check points are also an exception.

Here, you are simply simply wrong on the law.