Thread: Enforcing Current Immigration Laws Will Recover Eight Millio

Originally Posted by Lstudent

You wrote:

"The same way they ascertain and arrest US citizens suspected of violating our laws. They either have an exigent circumstance, suspicious behavior, tip, investigation, a search warrant or an arrest warrant."

This is circular because of all of the methods you listed "exigent circumstances, suspicious behavior, tip, investigation, a search warrant or an arrest warrant", SPECIFIC FACTORS are needed in order to employ any of these methods. Please, aside from the tip, list specific factors that can be used to give law enforcement probable cause to ascertain whether an individual is illegally present in the United States.

No, I wrote that, not NoBueno.

Government and public record searches, driver's licenses, car registrations, school records, employment records, hospital records, criminal records, police records, court records, tax records, utility records, birth records, death records, inspection records, welfare records, store records, cash advance records, western union records, E-Verify, background checks, business records, etc., etc., etc. to name a few that are all within the jurisdiction of records and the means of cities, towns, villages, counties and states to investigate and ascertain reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause.

Of course search warrants must be based upon probable cause. They must also be issued by a fair and impartial magistrate and describe with particularity the place to be searched and the items to be seized, in case you want to throw that in as well.

Police don't have to knock on doors to arrest illegals. Why? Because they come into contact with plenty of them during the course of their regular duties. Most reasonable people understand this.

If you pull someone over and they cannot produce any form of gov issued identification, then you now have reasonable suspicion and probable cause to question them further to ascertain who they are and why they cannot produce any identification.

If someone is loitering in front of a Home Depot, in clear violation of the law, then police have reasonable suspicion and probable cause to question those individuals. The questioning can go as far as the PC takes them.

This is not rocket science!

Originally Posted by Lstudent

you wrote "reasonable suspicion for a search arrest which if the search warrant is successful, then they have their probable cause to make the arrest depending on the success of the search."

reasonable suspicion, in most situations, is not enough to obtain a search warrant. Probable Cause is required.

A search warrant can be obtained if they have "probable cause" to believe that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched or that evidence of a crime may be found there."

Airports are an exception because of exigent circumstances.

Police can knock on doors and ask questions, but without a search warrant obtained based upon probable cause, they cannot go further unless the person they are questioning/wanting to search consents.

Traffic check points are also an exception.

Here, you are simply simply wrong on the law.

No, I'm not. We have 20 million or more illegal aliens in the United States which is an exigent circumstance unto itself, and all the cause any police officer needs to find them and remove them, by conducting research, fact-finding, check points, door to door investigations, record searches, tip hotlines, rewards, scouts, stings, moles, undercover operations, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. all the tools they use to seek out and hunt down any lawbreaker to gather enough information adequate to secure a search and/or an arrest warrant and make the arrests.

The crimes of illegal immigration have already occurred. The hunt is on for those responsible which can employ any and every law enforcement technique used to investigate, hunt down, find and arrest every illegal alien in the country.

You're "simply simply wrong on the law".

Originally Posted by NoBueno

Of course search warrants must be based upon probable cause. They must also be issued by a fair and impartial magistrate and describe with particularity the place to be searched and the items to be seized, in case you want to throw that in as well.

Police don't have to knock on doors to arrest illegals. Why? Because they come into contact with plenty of them during the course of their regular duties. Most reasonable people understand this.

If you pull someone over and they cannot produce any form of gov issued identification, then you now have reasonable suspicion and probable cause to question them further to ascertain who they are and why they cannot produce any identification.

If someone is loitering in front of a Home Depot, in clear violation of the law, then police have reasonable suspicion and probable cause to question those individuals. The questioning can go as far as the PC takes them.

This is not rocket science!

Exactly. Police do it every day in full accord with our laws and have been doing since the day we became a nation complete with a Constitution.

For clarification, a "yob" is the same as a "tschob", depends on the pronunciation of "job" by those from around the world. The Germans giggle at me butchering their language with a Scandinavian pronunciation, the Scandinavians giggle at my American accent. I am trying to learn Gujurati from the guys at the gas station, and Spanish from the local grocery.
It matters not where we came from, what we spoke, but it matters greatly that those we come in contact with are here legally. That differentiation has landed in the laps of local law enforcement, some whose superiors decide that it is not their "yob."

"yob" = job .. that's funny! Never heard that word before.

Can we/I sue the city where I live, for not enforcing the law of the land?

Originally Posted by Floorguy

Can we/I sue the city where I live, for not enforcing the law of the land?

Yes, I believe so. They have an obligation to enforce our laws and if they are deliberately refusing to and in many ways conspiring not to do so, then absolutely you can sue for dereliction of duty, breach of oath of office, failure to protect, defend and secure your blessings of liberty, breach of contract, gross negligence, civil rights violations, unequal treatment under the law, etc., etc., etc.. You pay taxes, those taxes are allocated for law enforcement, that's a contract, they've breached it, they've used your money protecting, serving, aiding and abetting, the very people you paid them to protect you and your family from, that's also fraud, taking money from you for one purpose and then using it for another. To me, every US citizen in the country has this claim against every law enforcement agency in the country that hasn't lifted a finger to arrest, detain and deport illegal aliens. Same with the schools, Americans pay taxes to educate American children, not have their money diverted to the education of foreign nationals who aren't supposed to be here in the first place. Same with health care, Americans pay taxes and insurance premiums to provide health care for Americans, not to pay for or absorb the cost of health care to illegal aliens.

What these people are doing is absolutely accountable for under civil litigation as well as prosecutable under criminal law. It's aiding and abetting, smuggling, harboring and conspiracy ... in direction violation of the US immigration law which is criminal law no different than anti-drug law, tax law or any other criminal law. Officials are absolutely responsible for the consequences of both their actions and inactions to the people of the United States.

It would be interesting to get Lstudent's viewpoints on what our country should do with our 20 million illegal aliens.

Sorry for continuing the conversation, but the computer screen was burning my eyes out. Sunlandbob, I am not entirely sure what to do with the 20 million illegal aliens. But, once my last final is over(December 8th) I will come give you a provisional answer.

Judy: the 20 million illegals as an exigent circumstance is interesting, but I don't think that has been interpreted by the Supreme Court of the U.S. yet as to make it legally valid in regards to the 4th amendment requirements.


I understand, overall, that there are many different tactics that law enforcement can employ to ascertain whether someone is here illegally. However, even with all the methods listed, including the specific factors you mentioned, judy, I will maintain that it is still not possible to deport all illegal aliens. Therefore, a more practical solution is required. That practical solution is, I suppose, the answer to Sunlandbob's question of what I would do with all the illegal aliens. Till December 8th.