Thread: Enforcing Current Immigration Laws Will Recover Eight Millio

Who said anything about having to deport all illegal aliens! Just enforce existing immigration laws and many will leave on their own accord. That would be an excellent start.

Why do we need to wait until the end of your final to get a reply from you. You seemingly had no problems yesterday engaging in this discussion?

Do you believe illegal invaders should be deported? A yes or no reply will suffice for now.

How about we start there?

Haha. I had no trouble yesterday because I was neglecting my studies. Judy wrote: "Just get them out of there. Deport them all."

No, not if they have committed no other crime than the unlawful entry. I will further explain why when I am done with my final on Tuesday.

So are you neglecting your studies today as well?

In any event, good luck on your final and also trying to build a compelling argument against not deporting those who have committed no crime other than unlawful entry; which by the way, is impossible to do if they are also working in this country.

Originally Posted by NoBueno

In any event, good luck on your final and also trying to build a compelling argument against not deporting those who have committed no crime other than unlawful entry; which by the way, is impossible to do if they are also working in this country.

Good point NB. And let's not forget this from our good friends at CIS:

[i]Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.â€

Originally Posted by Populist

Originally Posted by NoBueno

In any event, good luck on your final and also trying to build a compelling argument against not deporting those who have committed no crime other than unlawful entry; which by the way, is impossible to do if they are also working in this country.

Good point NB. And let's not forget this from our good friends at CIS:

[i]Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.â€

Originally Posted by Lstudent

Sorry for continuing the conversation, but the computer screen was burning my eyes out. Sunlandbob, I am not entirely sure what to do with the 20 million illegal aliens. But, once my last final is over(December 8th) I will come give you a provisional answer.

Judy: the 20 million illegals as an exigent circumstance is interesting, but I don't think that has been interpreted by the Supreme Court of the U.S. yet as to make it legally valid in regards to the 4th amendment requirements.


I understand, overall, that there are many different tactics that law enforcement can employ to ascertain whether someone is here illegally. However, even with all the methods listed, including the specific factors you mentioned, judy, I will maintain that it is still not possible to deport all illegal aliens. Therefore, a more practical solution is required. That practical solution is, I suppose, the answer to Sunlandbob's question of what I would do with all the illegal aliens. Till December 8th.

Of course it's possible to deport 20 million illegal aliens. It's not only possible, it's actually required by the US Constitution.

"Article 1

"Section 9. The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

______________________

The states have always had the right and responsibility to deport illegal aliens invading their state and the US Government has had that right and responsibility since 1808. It's why we have US immigration law, it's why US immigration law requires deportation, it's why local, state and federal agents or even citizens under their right of citizen's arrest, have the right to arrest and deport illegal aliens. The only requirement prior to a deportation of an illegal alien is a hearing to confirm for public records that they are in fact an illegal alien, an ascertainment of fact that can only be confirmed by our governments, because governments both states and the federal government are the only entities that establish legal residency either through citizenship or immigration and travel permits to enter or remain in the US.

So our governments including our law enforcement agencies, both state and federal, not only have the right, they have the duty and obligation, to enforce immigration laws, specifically provided for in our Constitution, to remove from our US soil, anyone who is not a US citizen or here with our unexpired permission to protect the public safety, health, well-being, economics, property interests and political system of the American People.

So our governments have the constant and perennial duty in all matters at all times to ascertain whether anyone is present in the US according to US law, and if they aren't, they have the absolute unmitigated duty to remove them through a deportation. Our government doesn't need probable cause to research someone's citizenship or immigration status. They have the duty to research it and ensure that all residents and visitors in the US are either citizens or permitted guests at all times. It's why we have identification requirements for almost everything we do, to get a driver's license, to receive health care, to go to school, to go to college, to get a job, to collect a benefit, to vote, to get a loan, to get utilities hooked-up, to sell a property, to buy a property.

It's why we have health screenings and background checks on immigrants and visitors.

US immigration law supported totally by the US Constitution since the day it was written and ratified is to protect the people of the United States from an invasion of foreign nationals we don't want occupying our country.

The only time a law enforcement officer or court would or could violate the constitutional rights of someone arrested for being an illegal alien is if they arrest someone as an illegal alien, when they knew or should have known they weren't an illegal alien and they wrongfully arrested and deported a US citizen either in honest error or through negligence or bad intentions, the same as government from time to time arrests US citizens, prosecutes them for crimes and sends them to jail or death row for crimes they didn't commit.

Let me ask you some questions on civil rights Lstudent:

Was slavery constitutional in our little free nation of free people before it was specifically prohibited by the 13th Amendment?

Did the United States have the right and obligation to free the slaves held in bondage in the South during the Civil War?

Did the United States government need probable cause to search for slaves and escort them from their homes in the South?

Was the Emancipation Proclamation constitutional in your view?

Was the US Supreme Court Ruling that sent poor Dred Scott back into slavery constitutional?

Was the US Supreme Court Ruling of 1883 that over-turned the US Civil Rights Act of 1875 constitutional?

Until you first understand the purpose of our Constitution which is plainly stated in a little paragraph called the Preamble, it's probably best not to try to explain its provisions established for the people of the United States through US Supreme Court Rulings on the subject of Illegal Aliens.

The entire purpose of the Constitution of the United States is to protect the people of the United States:

"United States Constitution

"Preamble

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Now, where in our Preamble to the US Constitution do you find any purpose at all regarding illegal aliens in our country in violation of US law? Where in the US Constitution do you find the right of our government to ignore their violations of law and force Americans to underwrite their presence? Where in anyone's clear-thinking mind do people come up with the conclusion that our government has the right to imperfect our union, destroy the domestic tranquility of our people, jeopardize the common defense of our nation, compromise the general welfare of our citizens and steal the blessings of liberty established and ordained by this Constitution solely for the people of the United States and our posterity and transfer those blessings to criminals from other nations in violation of our law?

Our country is short 12 million jobs for the people of the United States because of illegal aliens. The people of the United States are hundreds of billions of dollars short of their blessings of liberty because of illegal aliens. The people of the United States are short their common defense, general welfare and domestic tranquility our Constitution guarantees them because of the presence of illegal aliens. Americans are on welfare because illegal aliens stole their job or business. Americans have moved from towns and states they loved to get away from illegal aliens. Americans are in debt up to their ear-lobes for the next 5 generations because of illegal aliens if we deported every single one of them today. Americans are in their graves, over 40,000 of them, since 2001, because illegal aliens killed them.

If the invasion of our country by 20 million or more illegal aliens isn't an exigent circumstance, then I'd like to know what you think would be? Some pot seeds under the floor mat of a parked car or a discarded bong in someone's Friday trash pick-up?

Originally Posted by Lstudent

Haha. I had no trouble yesterday because I was neglecting my studies. Judy wrote: "Just get them out of there. Deport them all."

No, not if they have committed no other crime than the unlawful entry. I will further explain why when I am done with my final on Tuesday.

Good luck with your final on Tuesday, and I look forward to learning what constitutional authority upon which you base this biased unequal treatment of illegal aliens. Our law dictates that all illegal aliens be deported without bias, prejudice or preference. Under US Law, you can't prefer to keep 1 group of illegal aliens while deporting another just because you like 1 group better than another for your own arbitrary reasons or purposes.

US law dictates that if you are in our country illegally, then you are entitled to a deportation hearing to confirm your illegal alien status, after which you shall be deported forthwith, and the US Constitution supports that law 100% and has since the day our Constitution was ratified.

In addition, state criminal laws provide that illegal aliens be prosecuted for other crimes and jailed, not deported, just like anyone else who commits other crimes under our other criminal codes.

So what you're suggesting is that we not deport those who haven't committed other crimes, whether we know whether they have or not, but deport those who have allowing them to escape penalty, which means both aspects of your view conflict with US immigration law and other US criminal laws.

Finally, US deportation law has never been based on the level of criminality of illegal aliens. Deportation of illegal aliens is based solely on their illegal presence in the US in violation of US immigration law. Your view is part of the attempts of the Open Borders Lobby to circumvent US immigration law on the basis of preferential criminality, ignoring the crime of unlawful entry, the sole basis for deportation, while focusing on "other crimes" instead to legalize the crime of unlawful entry. I suppose when that doesn't work out, you'll want to ignore every other law they break so you can justify their presence here in spite of all US law. I suppose when you achieve that, you'll argue "they've served their time, they've paid their penalty for their other crimes" and are entitled to remain in the country after they're released from jail and have paid their debt to society.

US deportation law requires illegal aliens be deported so they don't have the opportunity to commit any act including other crimes that damage or harm US citizens to begin with. That's why we have US immigration law in the first place, to control the importation of persons to whom we see fit and deem suitable for entry. It's right there in Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution, in full accord with the purpose of the US Constitution so eloquently and cleared defined in the Preamble of the US Constitution.

Lstudent better not be in dereliction of duty, by blogging instead of having nose in book with only a few hours left until the final!

I wonder why a first year law student who presumably wants to become a lawyer would want to try to argue that enforcing US immigration law is unconstitutional when the Constitution empowered the federal government to enforce immigration law after 1808 and the states have been empowered to enforce it every day since the Constitution was ratified and we became a nation.

Originally Posted by Judy

I wonder why a first year law student who presumably wants to become a lawyer would want to try to argue that enforcing US immigration law is unconstitutional when the Constitution empowered the federal government to enforce immigration law after 1808 and the states have been empowered to enforce it every day since the Constitution was ratified and we became a nation.

Scary isn't it!

Either this person does not know the Constitution, or knows it and has chosen to ignore it, due to its inconvenience in pursuing an amnesty agenda.