Thread: Can a past of Islam change the path to president for Obama?

My family had the extremely sad experience of witnessing the JOY & CELEBRATING IN THE STREETS during the World Trade collapse.

First hand knowledge is an eye opener.

It is a fine line that we walk but walk it carefully and thoughtfully we must. It is difficult to accept than any so-called 'religion' would call for murder of innocents. It's a mind blowing thought but fact is fact.

And for those who are straddling the line, you only have to look to europe to see what has been taking place for 3 decades.

This has been in the islamic pipeline since at least the 60's.

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

It is a fine line that we walk but walk it carefully and thoughtfully we must. It is difficult to accept than any so-called 'religion' would call for murder of innocents. It's a mind blowing thought but fact is fact.

And for those who are straddling the line, you only have to look to europe to see what has been taking place for 3 decades.

This has been in the islamic pipeline since at least the 60's.

You're so right 2ndamendsis. Where it's our nature as Americans to want to believe in inherent goodness of people and accept people for who they are (with limits). We've learned we can't do that anymore. We have to for our own survival look at people through different eyes. We have to be diligent, aware, and cautious, and yes, even skeptical. It's sad that it's come to this point but we can't afford not to be anymore.

It is not fair to judge Islam by extremists and political aberrations than it would be to judge Christianity as a whole because of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisitions, and the Puritan witch hunts or the Timothy McVeigh’s, and the person who kill the abortion doctor based on religious belief and other recent acts of violence against homosexuals, Native Americans and Blacks and other minorities, based on religious belief and just because of the color of their skin and nationality or religious belief.
No, I do not have a personal interest in Islam, but I do believe in being fair as not to lump all Muslims and Christians as a whole and all nationalities as a whole.


Muslim Americans Condemn Attack
9/11/2001 - Political Social Religious - Article Ref: AM0109-335
Number of comments: 27
By: American Muslim Leaders
American Muslim Leaders* -
In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Dr. Yahia Abdur-Rahman, from the Islamic Shurah Council of Southern California (ISCSC), offers Supplication For The Victims

Dr. Maher Hathout, from the the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and The Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), condemns the attack and issues a statement. Click here to listen

Dr. Ahmad Sakr, from the Islamic Education Center (IEC), offers his condolences to the families of the victims and condemns the attack. Click here to listen

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), condemns the attack. Click here to listen

________________________________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - 9/11/01
U.S. MUSLIMS CONDEMN TERRORIST ATTACKS

(WASHINGTON, DC - 9/11/2001) - The American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC), today condemned the apparent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured.
The AMPCC statement read in part:
"American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."
Leaders of the American Muslim Political Coordination Council (AMPCC) held a meeting in Washington, DC, on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to issue the following points related to the terrorist attacks:
1) We assert unequivocal condemnation based on our religious values and our identity as American Muslims;

2) We do not need to defend every maniacal incident emanating from the Muslim world or the Muslim community, just as other religious groups need not defend their extremists;

3) We offer compassion to the victims and solidarity with all Americans in the face of danger;

4) Notwithstanding the disbelief that anyone following the faith of Islam could commit such a heinous crime, we condemn the act regardless of the identity of the perpetrators;

5) We deplore the irresponsible reporting that twists the realities and complexities of the Muslim world in order to project only anti-American sentiment during this disturbing period when we are all attempting to move beyond the state of mourning for the national tragedy;

6) We warn against opportunists who will exploit the misery and hysteria of the public in order to promote a political agenda aimed at tarnishing the name of Islam and Muslims;

7) We should not diminish our resolve to be active in protecting the civil liberties of all Americans and struggling for justice both locally and globally;

We need to organize activities to help the victims medically, psychologically and in every other way we can.
________________________________________
American Muslim Alliance (AMA) Condemns Terrorist Attack
(Newark, California: 9/11/01) The American Muslim Alliance, a national civic education organization, condemned today's terrorist attacks in New York and Washington in the "strongest terms".
Dr. Agha Saeed, the national Chair of the American Muslim Alliance, Stated:
"These attacks are against both divine and human laws and we condemn them in the strongest terms. The Muslim Americans join the nation in calling for swift apprehension and stiff punishment of the perpetrators, and offer our sympathies to the victims and their families."

http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Arti ... AM0109-335

Dyehard. you're dancing around some specific questions that have been asked of you by several posters, instead posting stuff that looks like standard fare prepared by the AADL. Why is that?

Being this subject has been brought up I thought I would mention an article here at ALIPAC that some may have missed by Lone_Patriot on January 16.

The audacity of apostasy: Barack Obama's Muslim links

Dr. Jack Wheeler
BrookesNews.Com
Monday 8 January 2007

One of the most entertaining opportunities that will emerge in 2007 will be using Barack Obama to fight Islamofascism. He is the product of a black Moslem from Kenya, Barrack Hussein Obama, and a white atheist from Kansas, Shirley Ann Dunham, who met at the University of Hawaii in Honolulu. That is why his middle name is the same as Saddam’s: Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. His first name is taken from the Islamic term in Arabic for “blessed,” baraka, used in the Koran.

His father deserted the family when Barack Jr. was two and returned to Kenya. His mother then married another Moslem studying at UH, Lolo Soetoro from Indonesia. He moved with his mother and stepfather to Jakarta when he was six, where he attended a Moslem medressa (religious school). That makes him a Moslem. There is no mention of this in the chapter of his book, The Audacity of Hope, where he discusses his religion, My Spiritual Journey (reprinted in Time Magazine). Obama claims he is a Christian, that he and his wife Michelle are members of the United Church of Christ.

The opportunity in this is not accusing him of being a “closet Moslem.” It requires taking him at his word that he has become a Christian — for that means he is an apostate. There is no dispute among either ancient or modern Moslem scholars that under Islamic law, a murtadd, “one who turns his back on Islam,” an apostate, must be put to death. Irtidad, apostasy, is committing treason against God, and traitors deserve to be killed.

Should Obama deny he ever was a Moslem, it will compound the problem in the eyes of Moslems. He was born of a Moslem father, raised by a Moslem stepfather, and received his first education at a Moslem school. That he subsequently went to a Catholic school in Jakarta before living with his mother’s parents back in Honolulu makes no difference. In the eyes of Moslems, he originally was a Moslem. How can he not be in those eyes, with a Koranic first name and his middle name that of the grandson of Mohammed? For him to become a Christian means he is, for them, a murtadd, an apostate.

Which provides the perfect opportunity for an enterprising journalist to ask him at a press conference if he is: 1. Afraid of Moslem assassination attempts as punishment for being in Islamic eyes an apostate? 2. Willing to publicly call upon all Moslems around the world to renounce such punishment and declare instead that Moslems are fully free to convert to another religion?

The odds are high that he will answer no to the first and yes to the second. As an oily politician, he will try to squirm out of a clear definitive yes with no wiggle room. But it should not be difficult for a smart journalist to get him to agree without reservation that Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states...

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right includes freedom to change his religion or belief.

...applies to Muslims

Once Obama condemns the Moslem tradition of death for apostasy, then he can be asked:

The Koran famously quotes Allah as saying in chapter (sura) 2, verse 256 that there should be ‘no compulsion in religion.' Yet numerous sayings of Mohammed known as hadith which form the basis of Islamic Sharia law quote Mohammed as saying ‘If a Moslem discards his religion, kill him.' So are you telling Moslems that Allah was right but Mohammed was misquoted, and their Sharia law tradition on apostasy is wrong?

You can see how much fun there is to be had with this. Again, the key is taking Obama at his word that he is a Christian and not secretly a Moslem. No accusations necessary. The point is that Moslems view him as first a Moslem, not that he does. If done right with honest, straightforward, and persistent questioning Obama can serve as a quite useful anti-islamofascist tool.

Moslems will be infuriated with him for embarrassing them, Americans will tell themselves never to vote for someone with Hussein in their name to be their president — and it just might get a number of influential Moslems to abandon an important part of Islamic law. This is going to happen to Obama this year. And not only that. For he’ll then be asked if he will support the efforts of Christian missionaries in Islamic countries to peacefully convert Moslems to Christianity.

Yep, might as well put this guy to good use.



http://brookesnews.com/070801obama.html


This guy is unelectable!

Thank you, Darlene!!!

It so happens I missed that article originally, and I appreciate you bringing it up. It's a great piece, with some good questions for Senator Obama. I can only hope that some enterprising reporter has the fortitude to ASK THEM.

Thanx DARLENE

been attempting to explain several of those points. Appreciate your pulling the article.

FYI: for anyone who wants to dig into information re: this subject
Little Green Footballs has been spending some years collecting it.

Also........take a gander at CAIR and be prepared to glue your hair on and your eyeballs in. They also get FEDERAL MONEY to spew their anti-Americanism around the world and are connected everywhere.

Ain't we in a fine kettle of soup?

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Muslim Americans Condemn Attack
9/11/2001 - Political Social Religious - Article Ref: AM0109-335
Number of comments: 27
By: American Muslim Leaders
American Muslim Leaders* -
In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Dr. Yahia Abdur-Rahman, from the Islamic Shurah Council of Southern California (ISCSC), offers Supplication For The Victims

Dr. Maher Hathout, from the the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and The Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), condemns the attack and issues a statement. Click here to listen

Dr. Ahmad Sakr, from the Islamic Education Center (IEC), offers his condolences to the families of the victims and condemns the attack. Click here to listen

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), condemns the attack. Click here to listen

I felt that way once dyehard39; and believe me....I'd love to be able to feel that way again. But this is one reason why I can't. In the cases you cited above:

1)Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ght_by_Siddiqi

American Muslim: Taught by Siddiqi

The American who was named as one of seven Al Qaeda monsters sought by the FBI is a convert to Islam who attended the Islamic Society of Orange County—and was taught Islam by Muzammil Siddiqi: American Terror Suspect Had 1997 Arrest.

GARDEN GROVE, Calif. - Adam Yahiye Gadahn was 17 years old when he walked into the Islamic Society of Orange County and asked for permission to worship there. The farm kid who grew up in a home with Christian roots declared himself a Muslim, ready to immerse himself in his new religion.

But his devotion eventually spiraled into trouble — and an arrest.

Gadahn, who was named Wednesday as one of seven suspected al-Qaida operatives sought by the FBI, was later expelled from the mosque after attacking an employee. Records show he pleaded guilty to assault and battery charges in June 1997 and was sentenced to two days in jail and 40 hours of community service. ...

“He was becoming very extreme in his ideas and views,” said Muzammil Siddiqi, the society’s religious director. “He must have disliked something.”

Once again, the wire services quote an “Islamic leader” with absolutely no context whatsoever. Muzammil Siddiqi is a radical Wahhabist, who is on record threatening the United States and supporting terrorist groups. If you’re searching for the cause of Adam Yahiye Gadahn’s alleged conversion to an Al Qaeda operative, a good place to start would be with Siddiqi.

Among the guests in this afternoon’s panel discussion is Muzammil Siddiqi, who until November 2001 was president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), a leading Wahhabi front organization in the United States. Wahhabism is a radical form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and advocated by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his terrorist leaders.

Siddiqi has accompanied visiting Saudi officials from the Muslim World League on fund-raising tours across America, and is listed on its Website as the organization’s official representative in the United States. Offices of the Muslim World League in Herndon, Va., were raided by a federal antiterrorism task force in March 2002 because of suspected ties to al-Qaeda.

During an anti-Israel rally outside the White House on Oct. 28, 2000, Siddiqi openly threatened the United States with violence if it continued its support of Israel. “America has to learn ... if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come. Please, all Americans. Do you remember that? ... If you continue doing injustice, and tolerate injustice, the wrath of God will come.” By “injustice,” he meant U.S. support for Israel.

Siddiqi also has called for a wider application of sharia law in the United States, and in a 1995 speech praised suicide bombers. “Those who die on the part of justice are alive, and their place is with the Lord, and they receive the highest position, because this is the highest honor,” he was quoted as saying by the Kansas City Star on Jan. 28, 1995.

We know Adam as "Adam the American"

2)Dr. Yahia Abdur-Rahman
Now this man I didn't find much about except:
Dr. Yahia Abdur Rahman, Chairman, American Finance House (Lariba), California, USA

Dr. Yahya is the former Chairperson of the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California, which is the umbrella organization of 57 Islamic Centers and 500,000 Muslims in Southern California. He is also the founder and CEO of American Finance House (LaRiba.com). He is also the author of Lariba Bank Book. LARIBA was established in 1987 in the City of Pasadena, California, USA. The company founders are a group of business men and women who believe in the LARIBA system of banking as the true expression of "halal" Banking and Financing. LARIBA is the acronym for “Los Angeles Reliable Investment Bankers Associates." American Finance House is licensed in the state of California as a Finance lender. The company's main goal is to provide "LARIBA" financing to all people regardless of their national origin, religious beliefs, gender or color.
http://www.ansargroup.com/conference/speakers.php#yahia

I saw some other links where the ansargroup gives interest-free loans to Muslims. Makes me wonder how they stay in business.

3)Dr. Maher Hathout:

September 22, 2006
"They're afraid of the Muslim community burning cars, burning effigies and burning synagogues"

Maher Hathout is going to get his award from the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission, despite everything. After all, as Commission President Adrian Dove put it the other day: "I challenge you to find another party in Los Angeles who is a practicing Muslim leader who would be less controversial." Aye, there's the rub. But why reward it?

"Controversial Muslim leader Mathout [sic] gets award despite opposition," from the Jewish Journal, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:

At a meeting that featured catcalls, standing ovations and the ejection of a disruptive audience member, Los Angeles' County Human Relations Commission voted again Monday to give an award to Dr. Maher Hathout, a local Muslim leader whose harsh rhetoric on Israel generated accusations of anti-Semitism and extremism.

The four commissioners who voted in favor were outnumbered by five who abstained and four who were absent.

Hathout's victory marks the first time a Muslim-American has received the commission's award.

In what Commission President Adrian Dove called a "tough hearing," the public body ended weeks of uncertainty by reaffirming its vote to confer the John Allen Buggs Award for excellence in human relations on Hathout, despite opposition from much of the organized Jewish community. Detractors had portrayed the chairman of the Islamic Center and senior advisor to the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) as an apologist for terror and called his past criticism of Israel veiled anti-Semitism. Hathout and his supporters have countered that he supports a two-state solution, has long renounced terrorism on theological grounds and for years has worked closely with local Jewish groups to bridge the chasm between Muslims and Jews.

Five commissioners -- Donna Bojarsky, Vito Cannella, Rebecca Isaacs, Eleanor Montano and Mario Ceballos, abstained. Bojarsky, public policy consultant and founder of L.A. Works, a volunteer-service organization, is the child of a Holocaust survivor; she suggested that the honor had been tainted by the process and the controversy and that the commission should recognize Hathout's contributions by making him the keynote speaker at its Oct. 5 awards banquet.

She said she abstained because she believes to do so "was the best thing for human relations."

In a reflection of the highly charged emotions, Allyson Rowen Taylor, associate director of the American Jewish Congress Western Region, said she believes commissioners lacked the courage to vote against Hathout.

"They're afraid of the Muslim community burning cars, burning effigies and burning synagogues," Taylor said after the meeting.

Read it all.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatc...ves/013240.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6_LwJ4Dd_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5JE...elated&search=

4)Dr. Ahmad Sakr:

Now this man also I didn't find anything stating the promotion violence or terrorism. He mainly promotes and teaches Islam. Along with the anti-Israel/pro-Palestine rhetoric. BUT he also encourages Islam's input in our schools and our government. That I do not find acceptable. Here are some of his principles:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ter...lism-sakr.html


I want to hear Muslims speak out against radicalism but I've learned never to take a statement at face value. We all need to dig a little deeper. Just in case.

I know several Muslims and they seem to be very nice folks. I am sure that not all Muslims agree with extremist ideology. That, however, is not the point. There were Germans in WW2 who were not Nazis; however, the ones who were sure caused a lot of problems.

Just a few thoughts: Muslims never seem to have any trouble whipping up tens of thousands to protest American foreign policy or some perceived insult to their religion, yet there have been no such demonstrations against terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. Why is that?

The fact is that Islam's got some problems within itself. The "moderates" are either unable or unwilling to gain the upper hand on the more extreme elements within their ranks. A British Home Office survey recently revealed that 40% of young Muslims would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK. Canada narrowly voted down a parallel Sharia court for family law last year only because of the tireless opposition from various women's groups and Muslim women themselves. Doesn't inspire confidence in me.

And yes there were atrocities committed in the past by those claiming to be Christian; however, nobody claimed to be following the example of Jesus. On the contrary, the Islamists claim to be following Mohammed's example. More relevant is that there are no worldwide terror cells of extremist Christians hell bent on spreading Christianity through violence in the 21st century, but those guys are still at it. Actually, at least you know what the violent ones are up to. Its the non violent ones who seek to use our democracy against us that we really need to watch out for.

Until Islam gets its extremist problem under control, I'd be uncomfortable with a Muslim president.

I think that it is also important to realize that there are sleeper cells in the US, as well as other parts of the world. They are supposed to make friends and fit into the neighborhood. They have been successful at that, because when these terrorists have been caught by our government, the neighbors were bewildered because "they were so nice".

Did anybody watch the Special on Fox News Channel about Radical Islam? They have little children that HATE the US...absolutely hate us. We have not even seen the beginning of our problems yet. Not only are they taught to hate and to be self destructive, but they are trained at an early age through cartoons and speeches, how to handle guns and be soldiers. I fear the adult Muslims and I am terrified of the kids...they will have no mercy and will never be rehabilitated. They don't know anything else.