Thread: ALIPAC issues clarification on 9/12 and Glenn Beck

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"Quote"

So, what you are saying is that ALIPAC should not get itself involved in other issues, or other movements?

Such as the March on Washington on 9/12?

IMHO, yes. We should stay focused. Unless, there is a
total integration and cooperation of purpose.

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"Quote"

So, what you are saying is that ALIPAC should not get itself involved in other issues, or other movements?

Such as the March on Washington on 9/12?

IMHO, yes. We should stay focused. Unless, there is a
total integration and cooperation of purpose.

I think we are on the same conceptual page.

There is a slippery slope out there. Politics makes for strange bedfellows,

at times, not that that is an excuse. I am all for knowledge, truth, and

detail, don't get me wrong.


I just wouldn't want ALIPAC to

become categorized as being in opposition to the Tea Party movement.

With media and others looking for any crack in the fabric that might happen.

I just don't see that being productive to either movement.

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I never have trusted Armey. Let him speak, he will probably
shoot himself in the foot and a backfire effect might be a good
thing. Regardless, I still respect Glenn Beck and will continue to
do so unless proven I should otherwise beyond a shadow of a doubt.
In my very humble opinion, I think ALIPAC should simply organize
our own rallys, and try it's best to not step on the toes of
other groups with similiar but not identical agendas.
Hey, we need some rich guys to sponsor ALIPAC funtions.
Rich People...where are you??

I agree that there should be a strictly anti-illegal immigration and anti-amnesty rally at some point. I'm not really sure why this hasn't already happened, but I know there's been some internal fracturing in our movement, particularly here in Southern California, which hasn't helped. I don't know that we necessarily need rich people though. After all, the tea party goers don't seem particularly rich as a group, just regular Americans dedicated to a cause.

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"Quote"

So, what you are saying is that ALIPAC should not get itself involved in other issues, or other movements?

Such as the March on Washington on 9/12?

IMHO, yes. We should stay focused. Unless, there is a
total integration and cooperation of purpose.

I think we are on the same conceptual page.

There is a slippery slope out there. Politics makes for strange bedfellows,

at times, not that that is an excuse. I am all for knowledge, truth, and

detail, don't get me wrong.


I just wouldn't want ALIPAC to

become categorized as being in opposition to the Tea Party movement.

With media and others looking for any crack in the fabric that might happen.

I just don't see that being productive to either movement.

As I said before. I think what William has said has been completely misinterpreted. He has stated that there are certain individuals in the Tea Party/9-12 Movement that are amnesty sympathizers. What is wrong with bringing those facts out into the open? Are we supposed to keep our mouths shut and act PC because so many are involved in the Tea Party movement? Like I stated before how can you be pro amnesty and a Tea Party Patriot? That's an oxymoron or it's someone who is uninformed if they think illegal invaders do not cost us more of our hard earned dollars.

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"Quote"

So, what you are saying is that ALIPAC should not get itself involved in other issues, or other movements?

Such as the March on Washington on 9/12?

IMHO, yes. We should stay focused. Unless, there is a
total integration and cooperation of purpose.

I think we are on the same conceptual page.

There is a slippery slope out there. Politics makes for strange bedfellows,

at times, not that that is an excuse. I am all for knowledge, truth, and

detail, don't get me wrong.


I just wouldn't want ALIPAC to

become categorized as being in opposition to the Tea Party movement.

With media and others looking for any crack in the fabric that might happen.

I just don't see that being productive to either movement.

If the Tea Party movement is going to be run by the likes of Dick Armey and Grover Norquist like these 9/12 marches are then you can put ALIPAC down as opposition gladly.

ALIPAC has supported the Tea Party movement and supported the 9/12 movement up until now.

Now we discover that Open Borders DC insiders are moving to take control of the 9/12 movement and you are going to growl at us for saying anything.

Let me make this abundantly clear. Anyone that is going to take up for or support Open Borders and Amnesty in the US or the groups and leaders pushing Open Borders and Amnesty is our opposition.

We are still collecting information on what is happening here and perhaps when we are done ALIPAC may be OUT of the Tea Parties and 9/12 movement.

Or the Open Borders traitors to the Constitution and the people of the United States may be the ones OUT of the movement.

William Gheen
www.alipac.us

I really appreciate your researching and clarifying this, William. Can't say I'm happy about it, but it's always better to know the truth.

(1) As I said before. I think what William has said has been completely misinterpreted.

(2) He has stated that there are certain individuals in the Tea Party/9-12 Movement that are amnesty sympathizers.

(3) What is wrong with bringing those facts out into the open?

(4) Are we supposed to keep our mouths shut and act PC because so many are involved in the Tea Party movement?

(5) Like I stated before how can you be pro amnesty and a Tea Party Patriot?

(6) That's an oxymoron or it's someone who is uninformed if they think illegal invaders do not cost us more of our hard earned dollars.[/quote]

(1) Thus, you must agree that misinterpretations are counter productive.

How, then, do you feel about misinterpretations of ALIPAC and the Tea Party movements? Especially from ALIPACs opposition, or from the Tea Parties' opposition? Doesn't the opposition also misinterpret?

Does it take up time when other situations could be more productive?

(2) OK, good to know, but it may be "off topic" for many.

The fact that amnesty/immigration issues should be part of a larger picture may not be the fault of the Tea Party movement, which is, in itself part of a larger picture. It may be the fault of ALIPAC. Seems ALIPAC may be pointing fingers. I count 30 "sponsors" of 9/12. Who is to say?

Ironically, for me, anyway, Campaign for Liberty has joined. Ron Paul is on board with this. I know vigorous anti-Tea Party folks who are pro Ron Paul.

Should ALIPAC not want to join? That is up to ALIPAC. I'm a party to both movements, and I'm not on different "sides".

(3) Nothing is wrong in bringing any facts out anywhere. Perhaps research could be done on ALIPAC and that could lead to opposition to ALIPAC, for example, which has already happened. I've read about these scenarios right on these very pages. That may very well be productive, and divisive, at the same time. Or they could be un-productive.

(4) Neither ALIPAC nor the Tea Party movements are known for keeping their mouths shut. Nor are the Town Halls. Nor are millions of Americans, especially now. There is a movement on to shut them up, though.

Hopefully, you don't want others with varying perspectives to "shut up".

(5) Maybe a good question. However, you are potentially merging two different perspectives. If you are going to exclude one from another, then you might be apt to exclude others, such as anti-war, or pro-war, or anti-global warming, or pro-global warming, or pro-healthcare, or anti-healthcare reform.

I was just told that these were irrelevant to ALIPAC. Maybe ALIPAC is irrelevant to the anti-tax movement, but now you would differ with me, is that not correct?

Americans are not known for agreeing on everything. How do you deal with those complexities?

(6) Attempting to label people as "uniformed" sounds exactly like what the opposition to ALIPAC says.

BTW, I'm firmly against illegal immigration and pro-Tea Parties, Tea Party Express, and pro California Tea Parties.

I think I will stay that way.

navigeur, you are missing the point. The pro immigration enforcement groups and leaders like ALIPAC are the ones being EXCLUDED here by the new leadership of the Tea Party / 9/12 DC events and movement that are corporate libertarians.

Get it?

Check out how people are responding to the head man in charge of the 9/12 rallies over at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqd1qY1KsM

We are looking into each group sponsoring. There are many more just like Dick Armey. Looks like the deck is stacked one way.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

navigeur, you are missing the point. The pro immigration enforcement groups and leaders like ALIPAC are the ones being EXCLUDED here by the new leadership of the Tea Party / 9/12 DC events and movement that are corporate libertarians.

Get it?

Check out how people are responding to the head man in charge of the 9/12 rallies over at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqd1qY1KsM

We are looking into each group sponsoring. There are many more just like Dick Armey. Looks like the deck is stacked one way.

W

I rarely get convinced of anything with solely a two year old youtube link and a couple of stray hyperlinks to potentially dubious sources. You'll have to do much, much better than that, with me. The same could be said for yourself, I am sure. I've seen enough of you to know that. Don't underestimate your supporters.

You've stated your evolving case, and some details, and I respect that. I even agree with digging below the surface to find out who is behind causes and what their agenda is. I do that myself. It does take time and effort, and you have mentioned that you are not done with your research.

You are letting your cat out of the bag, slowly, and I can understand why.
Events are unfolding faster than you can do your research.

I would also say that I would even trust your findings, whatever they may be, knowing your attention to detail and focus on issues.

That having been said, I support the ALIPAC perspective, totally, AND the Tea Party movement.

You are not going to force me to choose sides.

I read all four pages of the discussion here and I am saddened to see that there is division arising among us. I am a born-again Christian and I believe in the enemy of our souls. ALIPAC is doing good work and has a single goal, IMHO, and that is for our nation to close its borders and once again, only allow legal immigration. I am also a TEA Party member and activist. I don't think we are mutually exclusive at all. However, we must be wise and keep our eyes open because any time a group has a righteous goal, there will be those from the other side (the enemy of our soul, I think) that will try to infiltrate it and dilute the groups' mission. Don't let your goal here get the TEA Party's goal get side-tracked or vice-versa. I believe as someone said here that a TEA Party member couldn't seriously be pro open borders! That is one of the reasons our taxes are so high, especially here in CA!!

Just pay attention to those who say they are leaders of the TEA Party movement...they can't help but reveal their positions on various issues and if you hear (or read) a leader promote open borders, call him/her on it!! I am so frustrated that the media has portrayed as wacko Republicans or far-right extremists. All sides are represented in the TEA Party movement so far as agreeing that taxes are too high!!! We have Democrats, Republicans, Independents among us so don't pigeon-hole us. Yeah, I know I am preaching to the choir on that one.

Stay focused and don't let anyone, especially any leader, get our goals side-tracked!