Thread: ALIPAC issues clarification on 9/12 and Glenn Beck

Originally Posted by nemastef

Just pay attention to those who say they are leaders of the TEA Party movement...they can't help but reveal their positions on various issues and if you hear (or read) a leader promote open borders, call him/her on it!!

I totally agree with you on that. [/b]

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

navigeur, you are missing the point. The pro immigration enforcement groups and leaders like ALIPAC are the ones being EXCLUDED here by the new leadership of the Tea Party / 9/12 DC events and movement that are corporate libertarians.

Get it?

Check out how people are responding to the head man in charge of the 9/12 rallies over at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqd1qY1KsM

We are looking into each group sponsoring. There are many more just like Dick Armey. Looks like the deck is stacked one way.

W

I rarely get convinced of anything with solely a two year old youtube link and a couple of stray hyperlinks to potentially dubious sources. You'll have to do much, much better than that, with me. The same could be said for yourself, I am sure. I've seen enough of you to know that. Don't underestimate your supporters.

You've stated your evolving case, and some details, and I respect that. I even agree with digging below the surface to find out who is behind causes and what their agenda is. I do that myself. It does take time and effort, and you have mentioned that you are not done with your research.

You are letting your cat out of the bag, slowly, and I can understand why.
Events are unfolding faster than you can do your research.

I would also say that I would even trust your findings, whatever they may be, knowing your attention to detail and focus on issues.

That having been said, I support the ALIPAC perspective, totally, AND the Tea Party movement.

You are not going to force me to choose sides.

You are really reaching for straws here and I will advise you that it is not a good idea to refer to NumbersUSA as a "dubious source" around here.

NumbersUSA is one of the most credible sources in our movement, that preexists your Tea Party movement. So you need knock off the unwarranted insults immediately.

Most of the Tea Party supporters and 9/12ers we are hearing from today are not engaging in the kind of insults you are deploying here. Your hostility and insults are the exception, not the rule.

Yet, you should start thinking about how you reflect on your cause with your demeanor here.

W

Now we discover that Open Borders DC insiders are moving to take control of the 9/12 movement and you are going to growl at us for saying anything.

I'm emailing Glenn Beck!
Do you think he knows?

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by navigeur

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

navigeur, you are missing the point. The pro immigration enforcement groups and leaders like ALIPAC are the ones being EXCLUDED here by the new leadership of the Tea Party / 9/12 DC events and movement that are corporate libertarians.

Get it?

Check out how people are responding to the head man in charge of the 9/12 rallies over at youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqd1qY1KsM

We are looking into each group sponsoring. There are many more just like Dick Armey. Looks like the deck is stacked one way.

W

I rarely get convinced of anything with solely a two year old youtube link and a couple of stray hyperlinks to potentially dubious sources. You'll have to do much, much better than that, with me. The same could be said for yourself, I am sure. I've seen enough of you to know that. Don't underestimate your supporters.

You've stated your evolving case, and some details, and I respect that. I even agree with digging below the surface to find out who is behind causes and what their agenda is. I do that myself. It does take time and effort, and you have mentioned that you are not done with your research.

You are letting your cat out of the bag, slowly, and I can understand why.
Events are unfolding faster than you can do your research.

I would also say that I would even trust your findings, whatever they may be, knowing your attention to detail and focus on issues.

That having been said, I support the ALIPAC perspective, totally, AND the Tea Party movement.

You are not going to force me to choose sides.

You are really reaching for straws here and I will advise you that it is not a good idea to refer to NumbersUSA as a "dubious source" around here.

NumbersUSA is one of the most credible sources in our movement, that preexists your Tea Party movement. So you need knock off the unwarranted insults immediately.

Most of the Tea Party supporters and 9/12ers we are hearing from today are not engaging in the kind of insults you are deploying here. Your hostility and insults are the exception, not the rule.

Yet, you should start thinking about how you reflect on your cause with your demeanor here.

W

Please don't attempt at categorizing me, or attempt to isolate me.

Tea Parties are not MY movement, anymore than ALIPAC is MY movement. I represent myself. Hopefully that is acceptable.

If you feel I insulted you with the term "dubious", in relation to a specific website, perhaps it was misplaced, and out of line.

My apologies.

You seem to feel that I have launched multiple insults, however, as if that is now your characterization of me. Can you elaborate?

I believe you asked for honest feedback. I'm not the opposition.

To more properly reiterate:

I don't make decisions based on one youtube link or a couple of hyperlinks. I stand by that. No adjectives, here.

I will take them into account, as I have with all videos and links here, in the past three years. Dozens, perhaps hundreds. I make up my own mind about them.

I support the ALIPAC perspective, totally, AND the Tea Party movement.

You are not going to force me to choose sides.

I hope that's not insulting.

You can send an email to Freedomworks by going to their "CONTACT US" page and filling out the info requested at this link:

http://www.freedomworks.org/contact

I have asked them:

What is Freedomworks stand on ILLEGAL immigration?

What is Freedomworks stand on LEGAL immigration?

I'll post their answer here as soon as I hear from them, if I do.

I just got the following reply from FreedomWorks:
Thank you for contacting us. We will get in touch with you regarding your contact as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by LAPhil

I just got the following reply from FreedomWorks:
Thank you for contacting us. We will get in touch with you regarding your contact as soon as possible.

I got that too. It's an auto response to any email they receive.

naviguer, some of your posts make little sense, except for eloquently trying to trash ALIPAC.

Is ALIPAC pro-war or anti-war?
Is the 9/12 movement environmentalist or anti-environmentalist?
Is ALIPAC pro-global warming or anti-global warming?

What do any of these subjects have to do with the problem of illegal immigration?
As far as illegals, they are a major reason our taxes and insurances go up every chance the powers-that-be get. The illegals, and even the continual bringing in of visaed workers has eroded the taxpayer base which loses jobs continually due to insourcing and outsourcing. Taxes and the base philosolphy of ALIPAC are intertwined, and apparently with some of the characters funding the 9/12 march are turning the agenda into something to benefit themselves and their corporate buddies.
I think the message here is look very carefully and research the backgrounds of those supporting organizations, listen very carefully and decide what is going on, as there are many rattlesnakes in the grass. Dick Armey, after all, didn't change his stripes overnight.
For those that will participate in the 9/12 events, carry the message of the problems of illegal immigration and what it is costing this country, so we continually have to borrow money from all over the world, especially China, whose economy would collapse if they were not able to sell us cheap stuff.
Please remember, we are all Americans together, and apparently we are being cleaved by snorting over verbiage of a press release that basically states that there is reason for suspicion of some sponsors.

Originally Posted by vortex

naviguer, some of your posts make little sense, except for eloquently trying to trash ALIPAC.

Is ALIPAC pro-war or anti-war?
Is the 9/12 movement environmentalist or anti-environmentalist?
Is ALIPAC pro-global warming or anti-global warming?

What do any of these subjects have to do with the problem of illegal immigration?
As far as illegals, they are a major reason our taxes and insurances go up every chance the powers-that-be get. The illegals, and even the continual bringing in of visaed workers has eroded the taxpayer base which loses jobs continually due to insourcing and outsourcing. Taxes and the base philosolphy of ALIPAC are intertwined, and apparently with some of the characters funding the 9/12 march are turning the agenda into something to benefit themselves and their corporate buddies.
I think the message here is look very carefully and research the backgrounds of those supporting organizations, listen very carefully and decide what is going on, as there are many rattlesnakes in the grass. Dick Armey, after all, didn't change his stripes overnight.
For those that will participate in the 9/12 events, carry the message of the problems of illegal immigration and what it is costing this country, so we continually have to borrow money from all over the world, especially China, whose economy would collapse if they were not able to sell us cheap stuff.
Please remember, we are all Americans together, and apparently we are being cleaved by snorting over verbiage of a press release that basically states that there is reason for suspicion of some sponsors.

Ha, should I say that now you are insulting me - "some of your posts make little sense, except for eloquently trashing ALIPAC"? I won't, though.

I think I stated my honest reactions to this situation, and discussed this with 2 or 3 people here, and had a small debate on the pros and cons.
Other's comments on this and other forums, right here, bring up some of the same issues, so I am not isolated, nor do I feel it proper to be characterized, advertently or inadvertently, as some sort of "insulting" person.

You would agree that this, by ALIPAC's own admission, caused some sort of a rucus. Whether certain things could have been phrased differently, who knows.

I was asked to relay an honest opinion, nonetheless.

I think you might have missed my statements concerning supporting ALIPAC (totally), supporting fact finding (in agreement), supporting digging for the truth (in agreement), and supporting baring of the truth to all takers. All of that is great, and necessary. I have not said otherwise.

I also agree with your brief, here, on the effects of illegal immigration and how they might fit into the 9/12 movement, or the tax thing, more appropriately, as you indicate. I agree that one must be careful and do the necessary research. I do that on an ongoing basis, but I won't claim that I have researched everyone in depth. I could spend my life doing no more than that. I have been effected by illegal immigration personally, one of the many reasons I sought, amongst many immigration focused groups, and landed at ALIPAC, for information retrieval, three years ago.

I'm not the opposition, but I am a participant in two other groups, Tea Parties being one.

One must also appreciate the audience when things are said, as I have to. There were comments made about Tea Parties and the March on Washington (9/12), about Glenn Beck, and then they had to be clarified, because of some uproar over what was said.

I didn't create that, but I commented on it, honestly. Again, I understand the purpose of research and how necessary it is, and to get whatever information is needed out there.

How it is taken by the audience is a whole other ballgame. Maybe I wasn't clear or perhaps I was too clear, it is hard to tell. If you read between the lines with my few posts today, you will notice that I felt it was a slippery slope to critique other groups and other causes that are not part of any organized opposition to ALIPAC. ALIPAC has priorities and interests in other arenas, right here in multiple forums, and other groups can certainly have their own interests and priorities, which may not be ALIPAC's whether they should be or not. That's not for me to determine, but it sounds like it has already been determined for me, here.

I can determine my own priorities and become affiliated with whatever group I share my perspectives with.

When a "group", or person, starts sounding like opposition to the Tea Parties, in my opinion, I may bring the subject up, and talk about it. There is enough opposition to ALIPAC, the Tea Parties, and to 9/12 that perhaps we don't need anymore, at this particular time. I could be wrong, maybe all groups should clean house, at this point.

Remember the audience, not the speaker's intent. That's what you learn in the public speaking we all took in college.

I wish NO more opposition, or division, to ALIPAC than I do to 9/12 and the Tea Parties. Is that my point in all this?

Others have apparently made their own determinations. I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

Now we discover that Open Borders DC insiders are moving to take control of the 9/12 movement and you are going to growl at us for saying anything.

I'm emailing Glenn Beck!
Do you think he knows?

There's a chance that Glenn Beck does not know. We did not know until this past week and immigration has not been the hottest of topics for the last few months.

Glenn Beck and hundreds of thousands of others will know soon enough I guarantee you all that!

W