Thread: This is bizarre, weird, even frightning...

Originally Posted by mbrlr

We seem to be back to the turn of the 20th Century, with robber barons galore and poverty growing and irrational fear of immigrants growing even faster.

Latinos are following exactly the pattern of those immigrants, both legal and illegal, who came before. The first generation, those who immigrated, hold on to language and customs. The second generation, their children, have a foot in both worlds. The third generation, the grandchildren of the immigrants, often speak only English in the grand tradition we've inherited from our British roots. My wife was four when she came here, illegally with her parents, and they contributed taxes, both sale and through income withdrawals while hiding origins, without receiving the benefits of citizenship. They then became legal residents when allowed to do so. Their children are as American as apple pie and their grandchildren barely speak a word of Spanish --- I view that as a tragedy we're trying to overcome, but the point is that it happened and it is the same route travelled by immigrants to this country since the beginning. Are we to throw out our current attorney general in light of his family history?

Because things worked out for your family does not make them right and does not justify letting illegal immigration continue.

Racism is this nation's ugliest aspect, from slavery down through discrimination of all types against all "others". It's sad to see us treading down that path once again. My children, my little anglatinos, are just as American as any of us, just as is my wife --- a model naturalized citizen who believe above all that the greatest gift our founders gave us was freedom of speech and the freedom to differ. Our differences make us stronger, not weaker. Our new residents and citizens also make us stronger, not weaker. Folks such as the "Minutemen", and I'll avoid the jokes that spring to mind, are merely an illustration of our occasional national tendency toward the absurd.

I don't see how our "new residents" are making us stronger. You view waving foreign flags and completely ignoring American laws making us stronger? Does refusing to learn our language make us stronger?

But you have the right to differ, and that, far more than somehow wishing to keep our country "pure" or whatever the motivation may be, is what makes this country a good country. If we'd only toss in guaranteed health care to our residents and a reasonable guarantee of retirement benefits, we'd actually overcome our occasional shortsightedness and be great.

Y'all are good folks, but keep in mind most latinos are, too. Look at the names of the dead and wounded in this useless and foolish war we're now fighting and note how many of those you fear are giving their lives while we sit at home and debate their worth as both citizens and human beings.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/homeland ... umbers.htm
US Troop Casualities as of 10-4-06
2,729 US troops; 98% male
90% non-officers; 77% active duty, 14% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 10% African-American, 11% Latino. 17% killed by non-hostile causes. 53% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 68% were from the US Army

Originally Posted by AlturaCt

He buddy, you sure as Hell will be limited when you try to claim as yours what is in fact OURS and NEVER was yours.

This cracks me up. Thanks for putting a smile on my face Altura

LOL, LOL

Ah, Loserville, that's sick and funny at the same time, that is a fine line to walk and you have done it!!!!

[b]Because things worked out for your family does not make them right and does not justify letting illegal immigration continue.

The point is that these immigrants, both legal and illegal, are following the usual patterns of immigrants over the last 300 years and are doing what immigrants from non-English speaking countries have always done --- build us up, make us stronger, and contribute to both the diversity and the unity of our nation as they then become just as American as you or I and lose their ancestral languages and diversity. Heck, my grandkids may be yelling "close the border" one of these days and have no idea how ironic their behavior will be. My favorite immigration "moment" came a few years ago when a restaurant opened in our mid-South town out in an area of not-rich whites and nonwhites. We visited and were greeted at the door by two obviously latino youths, a girl and a boy, waiting to take us to our table. They opened their mouths and sounded just as Southern and just as American as could be, and they sounded the same as any other "09er" from Southwest Little Rock.

[quote:1fzx3bad]I don't see how our "new residents" are making us stronger. You view waving foreign flags and completely ignoring American laws making us stronger? Does refusing to learn our language make us stronger?

I don't think waving foreign flags necessarily weakens us. Ever been to a St. Patrick's Day parade? Ever been south of the mason-dixon line or simply to a car race? Are you out there knocking down flags?

I'm a very liberal Southerner, but my wife almost had a heart attack when she found my Confederate battle flag I had folded away somewhere. I explained as a liberal Southerner, I somehow manage to find room in my psyche to revere Lincoln, Washington, FDR, MLK, and Robert E. Lee and not find those loyalties contradictory. Waving foreign flags may simply mean pride in ancestry and culture and a wish to enrich our common American culture or, perhaps even more important and more protected, it may be a political statement in response to folks like y'all.

As for Iraq, almost 10% of the dead and I don't know what percentage of the wounded are Latinos (my wife uses that rather than something indicating solely her Mexican origin because she knows that all Latinos in this nation now must work together), not all of them "legal" or the children of "legal" parents, and they gave their lives in the service of this country in this misbegotten idiocy we're now in over in Iraq. You have one of your posters speaking of being "filled with rage and hatred". Okay. Why? We are a nation of immigrants, from Jamestown and the pilgrims in Massachusetts on down. For that matter, even the Indians came over from Asia many, many years ago. Immigration makes us strong and diverse and always has. Fear of change doesn't make us stronger and just makes us say and do very foolish things.[/quote:1fzx3bad]

Sorry --- things were bold in the previous post that weren't meant to be:

[b]

Because things worked out for your family does not make them right and does not justify letting illegal immigration continue.[b] [quote:2qaz1rsx]

The point is that these immigrants, both legal and illegal, are following the usual patterns of immigrants over the last 300 years and are doing what immigrants from non-English speaking countries have always done --- build us up, make us stronger, and contribute to both the diversity and the unity of our nation as they then become just as American as you or I and lose their ancestral languages and diversity. Heck, my grandkids may be yelling "close the border" one of these days and have no idea how ironic their behavior will be. My favorite immigration "moment" came a few years ago when a restaurant opened in our mid-South town out in an area of not-rich whites and nonwhites. We visited and were greeted at the door by two obviously latino youths, a girl and a boy, waiting to take us to our table. They opened their mouths and sounded just as Southern and just as American as could be, and they sounded the same as any other "09er" from Southwest Little Rock.

[/quote:2qaz1rsx]

mbrlr,

I don't think you are understanding the concept of membership in this society. You see, this is a very unique country, in fact it's a one-of-a-kind country that requires a certain amount of dedication from it's membership.

The first oath of membership is to obey the law. Some of our members have a problem with that one, but we are ALL required to TRY.

The second oath of membership is allegiance to country. You cannot expect a welcome mat when you come walking up with divided loyalties.

The third oath of membership is self-reliance. When you become a member, you are expected to support yourself, your family and your habits.

If you are unwilling or unable to do these, your membership application will be denied.

Although I am the original author, I put this in quotes because I think I just wrote America's new (old=pre-1965) immigration law!

Originally Posted by mbrlr

We seem to be back to the turn of the 20th Century, with robber barons galore and poverty growing and irrational fear of immigrants growing even faster.

Latinos are following exactly the pattern of those immigrants, both legal and illegal, who came before. The first generation, those who immigrated, hold on to language and customs. The second generation, their children, have a foot in both worlds. The third generation, the grandchildren of the immigrants, often speak only English in the grand tradition we've inherited from our British roots. My wife was four when she came here, illegally with her parents, and they contributed taxes, both sale and through income withdrawals while hiding origins, without receiving the benefits of citizenship. They then became legal residents when allowed to do so. Their children are as American as apple pie and their grandchildren barely speak a word of Spanish --- I view that as a tragedy we're trying to overcome, but the point is that it happened and it is the same route travelled by immigrants to this country since the beginning. Are we to throw out our current attorney general in light of his family history?

I don't believe that these new immigrants have anything to do with earlier waves of immigration. For starters, try as I might I cannot recall ant other immigrant group that came here in large numbers under the mantra that this nation did not belong to Americans or that it was stolen from them or otherwise subject to some change of ownership.

You also seem to ignore that the one major immigration wave that had in fact caused problems due to lawlessness or lack of assimilation (the Sicilian immigrants of about 100 years ago) caused serious social upheaval in some areas of the country and resulted in all but open warfare against honest citizens and their law enforcement communities. It took a virtual war on organized crime in places like Chicago before even a modicum of order was restored. Is that what we want to see again? I will remind you that the Sicilian gangsters who caused the problems were vastly fewer in number than the criminal aliens of the current invasion.

Originally Posted by mbrlr

Racism is this nation's ugliest aspect, from slavery down through discrimination of all types against all "others". It's sad to see us treading down that path once again. My children, my little anglatinos, are just as American as any of us, just as is my wife --- a model naturalized citizen who believe above all that the greatest gift our founders gave us was freedom of speech and the freedom to differ. Our differences make us stronger, not weaker. Our new residents and citizens also make us stronger, not weaker. Folks such as the "Minutemen", and I'll avoid the jokes that spring to mind, are merely an illustration of our occasional national tendency toward the absurd.

How strange that you invoke the spectre of racism when it is the Latinos who are promoting racist ideas. Is not one of the loudest voices of the illegal immigrant community specifically called "The Race"? Yes, this immigration issue is fraught with racism, but it is the illegal aliens who are the foremost racists.

Originally Posted by mbrlr

But you have the right to differ, and that, far more than somehow wishing to keep our country "pure" or whatever the motivation may be, is what makes this country a good country. If we'd only toss in guaranteed health care to our residents and a reasonable guarantee of retirement benefits, we'd actually overcome our occasional shortsightedness and be great.

Look, you little creep, you don't have the right to illegally steal into our country and tell us what we do or do not have the right to do. This is a sovereign nation and a nation of laws. The problem with illegal aliens is not the "alien" part but the "illegal" part. If your former countrymen don't like our laws, TOUGH. This is OUR country and WE, not foreign scofflaws, make the laws and enforce the laws.

Originally Posted by mbrlr

Y'all are good folks, but keep in mind most latinos are, too. Look at the names of the dead and wounded in this useless and foolish war we're now fighting and note how many of those you fear are giving their lives while we sit at home and debate their worth as both citizens and human beings.

In determining how good or bad the "Latinos" who enter our country illegally are, I prefer to let the crime statistics and the most wanted lists do the talking, and what they are saying is something that you don't want to hear.

The issue at hand here is ILLEGAL immigration. Even without the mountain of evidence of the devastating effects illegal immigration has on our communities and society, common sense would dictate that when a country has lost control of its borders and immigration process, this is not a good situation for the country.

Many people have been adversely impacted by our government's failure to secure our borders and enforce immigration laws. Most of these people are at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Those who benefit the most from this unchecked illegal immigration are big business and the affluent.

Do not assume that most legal Hispanics are pro-illegal. Having said that, those millions of demonstrators flying Mexican flags and chanting, "Mexico, Mexico" have divided loyalties AT BEST, and at worse are foreign nationals who are loyal to another country. They have no rights whatsoever in this country, and especially no right to attempt to threaten or intimidate legal citizens and residents of this country. What they need to do is take some of that moxie that they showed this spring demanding their rights here in the US back to where they came from and demand reform in their own country.

.

Not to side step this post, but the map was great (Yours) and everyones avaitors and sayings are so funny!! Thanks guys!!

mbrlr
Throwing the RACE CARD doesn't cut any ice. That's old, worn out and ridiculous. Breaking the Rule of Law and race have nothing to do with each other. What's your next trick?

YOU just showed your true hand.

National Health Care is what you believe will make this country stronger?
I implore you.......head off to Cuba, Canada & Europe. That's an experience all Americans should participate in. New Flash:
Socialism is not the American Way. Not one socialist country in the world has prospered as we have. They IMPLODE.