Thread: No to birthright citizenship?

Hey gobits...the prisons are full of people who broke our laws. Should we weed through all of them and pardon all the "good" ones? And what constitutes being "good"...perhaps they graduated from high school? Maybe at one time they paid taxes? Or perhaps they rescued a puppy sometime in their past?

Geez...you spout a lot of crap. Illegal aliens in the U.S. may be "good" (well, some of them anyway), but they are first and foremost CRIMINALS. They broke our laws by entering our country illegally.

Originally Posted by americangirl

Oh please gobits...they use so many fake documents, names, etc...it's impossible.

so you are saying every document, affidavits, numbers, titles, diplomas, certificates, passports, and licenses in United States of America should be considered inadmissible because they are in fact all fakable. you are saying that all the legal documents in the United States of America should be no longer considered in any form of legal and commercial judgment.

Originally Posted by americangirl

Why can't you grasp the concept of people breaking U.S. laws, violating our borders, and then violating American citizens by stealing their identifications? What part of "violating" laws and "violating" people don't you understand??

the same old blanket stereotype "illegal is illegal. no buts" intolerance. not all these people are criminals yes, they broke the law by coming here illegally. but not every one of them is here stealing identities and causing havoc. they came hre for a just reason and that is to have a chance for better life. not all laws are black and white as many of you would like it to be.

Originally Posted by americangirl

Do you forgive ALL criminals if they have a bleeding-heart story???

why are you constantly trying to clump everything or everyone into ONE thing? no you dont forgive ALL of them, but would you not forgive those who do have those "bleeding-heart stories"? would you give them a chance?

Originally Posted by gobits

what you fail to realize is not all of these people are useless, blood sucking mexicans who are out there raping our kids and communities. some are hard working decent human beings who pay their taxes, do their jobs, and contribute to the society.

my question is why cant we try to filter these individuals out instead of lumping them altogether? assuming that there is a effective way to accomplish such thing, would you support such measure?

would you support something where these people have the chance to be legalized by meeting high standards--to learn english, to pay their taxes, to pass background checks--from what i gather you are opposed to immigration because these illegals are exactly opposite of those things i've mentioned. if they meet these criterias, would you be willing to welcome them?

if you are unwilling to do even that, is it safe to assume that your beliefs are really grounded on ethnic-racial nativistic bias masked as anti-immigration political platform?

Oh, are all illegals of one ethnicity? We don't want any illegals rewarded with a welcome mat. They need to go home and apply to come here legally, no fast pass just because they are here already and want to make promises now. There are plenty of immigrants waiting in line to come here the right way. We should allow them in first.

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

gobits

How do you run a background check on someone that has no ID or tax record? What about the "racial" profiling that will be spouted first time that is tried? If you are a lawyer you know that is the first thing that will happen. How would you work around that? What about the laws even the "good" ones have broken while here?

like i said, these checks are designed to "pick" out the goods from the bads. if they cant provide the system with sufficient information, they are not eligible.

what do you mean by racial profiling? why does that even enter into this equation? those who seek an opportunity will have to apply and provide with sufficient information. end of story.

if someone who is eligible is found to have broken laws, he/she will be ineligible. now, a simple violation like getting a ticket for jay-walking would be considered minor, but more serious violations would not go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by Oldglory

Originally Posted by gobits

what you fail to realize is not all of these people are useless, blood sucking mexicans who are out there raping our kids and communities. some are hard working decent human beings who pay their taxes, do their jobs, and contribute to the society.

my question is why cant we try to filter these individuals out instead of lumping them altogether? assuming that there is a effective way to accomplish such thing, would you support such measure?

would you support something where these people have the chance to be legalized by meeting high standards--to learn english, to pay their taxes, to pass background checks--from what i gather you are opposed to immigration because these illegals are exactly opposite of those things i've mentioned. if they meet these criterias, would you be willing to welcome them?

if you are unwilling to do even that, is it safe to assume that your beliefs are really grounded on ethnic-racial nativistic bias masked as anti-immigration political platform?

Oh, are all illegals of one ethnicity? We don't want any illegals rewarded with a welcome mat. They need to go home and apply to come here legally, no fast pass just because they are here already and want to make promises now. There are plenty of immigrants waiting in line to come here the right way. We should allow them in first.

again, you are approaching the blind "illegal is illegal. end of story" territory. fact of the matter is, they are indeed here. some have been here for over a decade. why not let some of these people, who are deserving, have a chance if they meet all the standards i've talked about?

gobits...you admit that the illegals "broke the law" by coming here illegally. But then you say they came for a "just" cause.

Well, you can excuse a lot of crimes if you want to say it was committed for a "just" cause. Lots of people commit crimes out of desperation. But that doesn't excuse it. It might "explain" it, but it doesn't excuse it.

The answer to Mexico's downtrodden isn't to break into the U.S. and freeload. The answer is to stay there and put the same energy into lobbying the Mexican government that they put into lobbying ours. Come on gobits....you know the U.S. cannot bear the weight of all of Mexico's and Central America's poor!!!

Oh, and YES. Illegal IS illegal. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Why do you want to take each and every illegal alien in the U.S. and examine them, case by case, and decide which one's are worthy of being given a break?

That's not how life works. That's not how a justice system works. You establish laws, and you expect people to obey them. If they do not, then you punish them. The punishment can then be determined based on all the ramifications and all the reasons the crime was committed, thereby effecting a lesser punishment for some. However, that being said, when people commit crimes, they must make restitution. That's how we are supposed to be doing things here in the good ole U.S.A.

Originally Posted by gobits

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

gobits

How do you run a background check on someone that has no ID or tax record? What about the "racial" profiling that will be spouted first time that is tried? If you are a lawyer you know that is the first thing that will happen. How would you work around that? What about the laws even the "good" ones have broken while here?

like i said, these checks are designed to "pick" out the goods from the bads. if they cant provide the system with sufficient information, they are not eligible.

what do you mean by racial profiling? why does that even enter into this equation? those who seek an opportunity will have to apply and provide with sufficient information. end of story.

if someone who is eligible is found to have broken laws, he/she will be ineligible. now, a simple violation like getting a ticket for jay-walking would be considered minor, but more serious violations would not go unnoticed.

Sorry but you know the racial card would be the first one dealt. All the left liberal socials would be screaming the first time you tried to weed out the good ones from the bad ones... Picking on the poor uneducated people etc. Fact of life now adays.

Again how do you run a background check on someone that has no real name in America? Has used several names, IDs? How would you ever get an acurate background check?

Ok what about even the "good" ones who have commited fraud, tax evasion, ID theft etc while contributing to their community?

Go Waukegan Just spreading the news...like Frank Sinatra

There is a huge disconnect between third-worlders, Americans, and laws. Americans, by and large, have a healthy respect for laws and see the need for them. We recognize that is what has held us together....that respect for the law. On the other hand, third world people see laws as a hindrance, a nuisance, something that just gets in their way and they are to be subverted. There is little or no respect for law and order.

That is why they will never understand us when we say "ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL", not might be or could be or maybe. We don't condone people stealing even if they are down and out and need it. Without laws and the rule of law and order, we become like a Third World Nation. Illegals just don't understand the concept.

The Waukegan 287g protest is a perfect example of what I'm saying....third world politics in action. WHY wouldn't anybody want to rid themselves of criminals?? The fact that there was even a debate about it is very disturbing and shows that the area has retrogressed down that road.

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

Originally Posted by gobits

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

gobits

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

How do you run a background check on someone that has no ID or tax record? What about the "racial" profiling that will be spouted first time that is tried? If you are a lawyer you know that is the first thing that will happen. How would you work around that? What about the laws even the "good" ones have broken while here?

like i said, these checks are designed to "pick" out the goods from the bads. if they cant provide the system with sufficient information, they are not eligible.

what do you mean by racial profiling? why does that even enter into this equation? those who seek an opportunity will have to apply and provide with sufficient information. end of story.

if someone who is eligible is found to have broken laws, he/she will be ineligible. now, a simple violation like getting a ticket for jay-walking would be considered minor, but more serious violations would not go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

Sorry but you know the racial card would be the first one dealt. All the left liberal socials would be screaming the first time you tried to weed out the good ones from the bad ones... Picking on the poor uneducated people etc. Fact of life now adays.

if you want a chance to be legalized, you have to apply and have the necessary documentation to prove that you are who you are and that you are deserving. how you manage to turn that into an issue of race is perplexing to say the least.

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

[Again how do you run a background check on someone that has no real name in America? Has used several names, IDs? How would you ever get an acurate background check?

do you only see what you want to see. i said if you are not able to provide with admissible, accurate documentation, you would not be eligible. if you dont have a real name in america, whatever that means, then you would not even be able to apply. whatever documention they bring is used to check who they are. tax record, job record, school record, they all have to match.

Originally Posted by TEXLEGAL1

[Ok what about even the "good" ones who have commited fraud, tax evasion, ID theft etc while contributing to their community?

this one gave me a chuckle and really gave me a glimpse of how your mind works. if they commited fraud, tax evasion, and ID theft, why the hell are you labeling them "good"?