Thread: Are we fighting a losing battle?

I just don't think that's realistic

What is realistic? Is protecting your house/home realistic? How about protecting your family? How about protecting your community? Or Country? How about protecting a way of life? Is any of that "realistic"?

But some on these Boards really expect to have a Berlin type Wall.

I don't know anybody but OBL supporters who would define a wall or fence to protect our borders as a "Berlin type wall". Interesting choice of words?

quround up and deport millions of people who have been here for yrs, and basically rid the country of most illegal aliens within several yrs (or something like that).

So we should reward those who have broken the law the longest? Most people are for attrition through enforcement. BUT if that doesn't work damn straight. You act like these people have no choice. They can leave of their own volition or they can be forced. Their choice! They are forcing their way on us and doing no less by insisting they can stay.

RE:Firemanstud

Hopefully he will come back or is still here but I agree with those who say we need to be careful about negativity. I don't know weather he was a troll or not. This statement:

I am a realist not someone that lives in a dream world.

could go either way. Even so sounds like he already has his mind made up.

He may very well have been just depressed and needing a shoulder. Much encouragement WAS offered and nobody wants to be harsh but we have to be on guard. I doubt there has ever been a long term fight or battle around where almost anyone involved doesn't have moments of fatigue or even doubt. But one has to be VERY careful about the feeling themselves and certainly how they are expressed if expressing them at all. Doubt can become contagious and in turn can be self-fulfilling. It is a fine line between needing a pep talk and penetrating pessimism. I would never want soldiers and certainly not leaders who think we can't win. This is nothing personal against Firemanstud or anyone else but I know this for sure. You can't win if you think you are going to lose. I'm just saying we need to be careful about where and in what way certain things are said.

When I said a Berlin Wall I meant by that guard towers, barbed wire, trenches, MOD EDIT that kind of thing - from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. If you think something like that is going to be built then dream on. I'm all for some kinds of barriers/fences/walls at points along the border.

As far as rewarding those who have been here the longest that's not what I want to see. I'm talking about reality. So again if you think the INS or FBI or whomever is going to find and deport all the illegals who have been here for yrs and have families, etc then dream on. I choose to focus on things that have a real chance of happening.

If people like myself are not welcome here then so be it. Anybody can vent and talk about the perfect world/country they would like to see. I'm sure some people come on these Boards to do that, and hey who am I say they shouldn't. But there are millions of people like myself in this country who are against illegal immigration and think along the lines I do. The people who you have to get on board if you have any hope of changings things. I'm sure some of them come on Forums like this and get scared off, or just figure that its pointless to bring up any positions that aren't "pure" enough. But it's not my style to back down, so I'm going to have my say.

Originally Posted by GUYMAN

But some on these Boards really expect to have a Berlin type Wall put up, round up and deport millions of people who have been here for yrs, and basically rid the country of most illegal aliens within several yrs (or something like that). I just don't think that's realistic. So again, it depends on your definition of what success is.

Guyman- With all due respect, I do think it is possible, just maybe not in the way you described. If they had no place to live, and no place to work, they would self-deport. If everytime one got arrested, they were deported that would get rid of some as well. In combination with raids and yes a wall, eventually we could correct the problem. I don't think that is living in a dream world. It is called enforcing the law.

Please see the rules:

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... ic&t=26071

2.5
NO VIOLENT LANGUAGE ALLOWED, NO GUN/WEAPONS TALK or AVATARS No discussion of insurrection or Civil War caused by Americans.

Dixie

Originally Posted by GUYMAN

When I said a Berlin Wall I meant by that guard towers, barbed wire, trenches, MOD EDIT that kind of thing - from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. If you think something like that is going to be built then dream on. I'm all for some kinds of barriers/fences/walls at points along the border.

As far as rewarding those who have been here the longest that's not what I want to see. I'm talking about reality. So again if you think the INS or FBI or whomever is going to find and deport all the illegals who have been here for yrs and have families, etc then dream on. I choose to focus on things that have a real chance of happening.

If people like myself are not welcome here then so be it. Anybody can vent and talk about the perfect world/country they would like to see. I'm sure some people come on these Boards to do that, and hey who am I say they shouldn't. But there are millions of people like myself in this country who are against illegal immigration and think along the lines I do. The people who you have to get on board if you have any hope of changings things. I'm sure some of them come on Forums like this and get scared off, or just figure that its pointless to bring up any positions that aren't "pure" enough. But it's not my style to back down, so I'm going to have my say.

Freeze right there.

1. This organization has no written policies regarding a wall. We have no position an a wall because the wall only enjoys about 55% support from the American public and our official stances must have 80%+

Also, all posts on these boards do not reflect the organization's policies see disclaimer in rule 6.

"6. Disclaimer: ALIPAC is not responsible for the content of posts, comments, articles, and links to other organizations. Posting here does not imply endorsement or support. Posts from the public here are NOT organizational statements or the positions of ALIPAC. Official ALIPAC organizational positions and statements are found on the main site at www.alipac.us "

Also,

Please point out for me where people are talking about a Berlin style wall here on our boards? You have chosen to use the terminology of our opposition, so I'm going to have to ask you to show us what comments you are talking about.

You also violated our rules quickly in a way that we do not allow on our boards.

Different views are allowed here, but we are wary of the multiple attempts by opposition forces to try and blend in here and play head games and black propaganda operations.

The ALIPAC Platform is clearly defined above and elaborated on in "How to reverse illegal immigration in America" and nothing in those texts sound remotely like what you are talking about with Berlin Walls and mass deportations.

In fact, it is our opposition that likes to say that we want to build a Berlin Wall and go house to house for mass deportations and this is a total mischaracterization of ALIPAC's positions and the positions of the vast majority of people on these boards.

So, we need some sources from you on your claims that these opinions are represented here and as pervasive as you claim.

William Gheen
President, Americans for Legal Immigration

Just checked Guyman's posting records. Looks like these kinds of accusations started right after signing up on Feb. 1.

Here is the first shot on Feb. 3

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... ht=#288621

I just checked the MOD records and see no reports of rule violations on lethal force at the border recently.

The Berlin Wall was a lethal force structure and that is what this user is claiming most of us represent.

Let me call in the MODS to see if they have had to enforce this rule much lately.

MODS: Have you had to enforce the rules against lethal force discussions for the border much since Guyman signed up on Feb 1?

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by GUYMAN

When I said a Berlin Wall I meant by that guard towers, barbed wire, trenches, MOD EDIT that kind of thing - from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. If you think something like that is going to be built then dream on. I'm all for some kinds of barriers/fences/walls at points along the border.

As far as rewarding those who have been here the longest that's not what I want to see. I'm talking about reality. So again if you think the INS or FBI or whomever is going to find and deport all the illegals who have been here for yrs and have families, etc then dream on. I choose to focus on things that have a real chance of happening.

If people like myself are not welcome here then so be it. Anybody can vent and talk about the perfect world/country they would like to see. I'm sure some people come on these Boards to do that, and hey who am I say they shouldn't. But there are millions of people like myself in this country who are against illegal immigration and think along the lines I do. The people who you have to get on board if you have any hope of changings things. I'm sure some of them come on Forums like this and get scared off, or just figure that its pointless to bring up any positions that aren't "pure" enough. But it's not my style to back down, so I'm going to have my say.

Freeze right there.

1. This organization has no written policies regarding a wall. We have no position an a wall because the wall only enjoys about 55% support from the American public and our official stances must have 80%+

Also, all posts on these boards do not reflect the organization's policies see disclaimer in rule 6.

"6. Disclaimer: ALIPAC is not responsible for the content of posts, comments, articles, and links to other organizations. Posting here does not imply endorsement or support. Posts from the public here are NOT organizational statements or the positions of ALIPAC. Official ALIPAC organizational positions and statements are found on the main site at www.alipac.us "

Also,

Please point out for me where people are talking about a Berlin style wall here on our boards? You have chosen to use the terminology of our opposition, so I'm going to have to ask you to show us what comments you are talking about.

You also violated our rules quickly in a way that we do not allow on our boards.

Different views are allowed here, but we are wary of the multiple attempts by opposition forces to try and blend in here and play head games and black propaganda operations.

The ALIPAC Platform is clearly defined above and elaborated on in "How to reverse illegal immigration in America" and nothing in those texts sound remotely like what you are talking about with Berlin Walls and mass deportations.

In fact, it is our opposition that likes to say that we want to build a Berlin Wall and go house to house for mass deportations and this is a total mischaracterization of ALIPAC's positions and the positions of the vast majority of people on these boards.

So, we need some sources from you on your claims that these opinions are represented here and as pervasive as you claim.

William Gheen
President, Americans for Legal Immigration

Sorry, I didn't mean to violate the rules here. I will not use terms like that again. I never said that ALIPAC stood for any of those things I mentioned. I was saying that some people on these Boards clearly do - and the point of my Post was that if you can only be satisfied with things like that then you of course you'll feel like we are fighting a losing battle. Now you're right I can't cite a particular Post from a particular person. So if you want to sit there and say that there are not people here who think mass deportations can and should happen then I'm not going to argue with you. I was actually trying to be Positive - we can have many victories without deluding overselves that in 5 yrs (or whatever) we can rid the country of every illegal alien, or that we are going to completely seal off the Mexican border like the old Iron Curtain in Europe.

Nope W. we don't allow deadly force talk on this forum.

Admins and Mods spend a lot of time watching for unacceptable conversations or rule violations and they act quickly to troubleshoot such comments and discussions. We run a tight ship here.

GUYMAN sure didn't report any of these sightings to admins or mods prior to this accusation.

If GUYMAN had read the rules and knew that we don't accept that type of postings, then he should have reported it.

Where are those post you speak of GUYMAN??????

Dixie