Thread: What to do IF Amnesty is given

I think most Americans are already on OUR side of this issue but when the president stands there and straight out lies and says a majority agree with him, then by god the truth is a majority agree with him, right?

The leaders of this country no more care about the wishes of their constituancy than the man on the moon. They will do whatever they are paid to do PERIOD. And there in-lies my fear.
They know what they are doing and just plain do not care.
I think the only way to get converts in Congress is to PAY them, give them 1 million dollars tax free to forget about their corporate handlers.....and yes I know how dumb that sounds, but its right.

Are we in a made up war again that is killing our brave sons and daughters for a bunch of people that NONE of us give a sh** about?
Aren't a majority of Americans against this debacle that bush wants to dive into deeper and haven't we said so in no un-certain terms?

Doesn't every mainstream reporter except Lou Dobbs try to make us out to be racist and are apparently FOR the invasion...of course they are regulated by the government (FCC) and work for the same people that are the globalists behind this mess?
You will NEVER see on one of the networks anyone show that they are against illegal immigration or they would be fired in a New York second.
Look what happened to Dan Rather for trying to show the people what bush is. They buried him on what amounts to the home shopping network as an example of what happens to anyone against the bush cabal.

The problem is a leader, to boycott Miller, William was up front, but as I've notice illegal alliens has not such impact as all together ,SPP, NAU,SS,
William said we have to focus only on immigration. Maybe what i'm saying is not true in other states, but here I think the people is much more against taking action only against illegals, than takink action against SPP, NAU etc.., that's why I start thinking in a way we could get more people alerted to the problem, I don't want to do nothing more than alert the people, we could also insert Alipac's name in this flyer so people could come and joint to take action,
Don't forget , here in Miami your friend neighbour is an illegal, and what I'm saying is not what it has to be done, I think a lot of ideas can come,
I'm only thinking that it's better to do something than to do nothing.and also time is running out and we don't have anything going on, only calling and writing to reps..
Now I don't think it will work.

Originally Posted by Ronster

I will change my party affiliation back to Republican so I can vote in the primaries. And then hit the streets to educate Americans on how this fool traitor sold his country out.

Will other Republican candidates such as Tancredo and Goode make any appearance in the primaries? How does one work to ensure that the usual "bad guys" do not make into the primaries? In Michigan there is universal disgust with the Republicans over the issue of illegal immigration. How does one get into the party at a local level and create momentum for better candidates like Tancredo?

Originally Posted by olivermyboy

OK I'm new to this, but there is something I have never understood--why would they want a guest worker program? Wouldn't that actually make illegals an undesirable commodity because they would have to pay a living wage and give the same benefits as they do Americans? And, most probably provide housing to boot?

Who wins here besides the Democrats and their new voting block? That is why I do not understand Republicans! Are they lemmings?

No, they are crooks. They realize that no matter what gets implemented in congress, there will be so many loopholes and backsteps that nothing will really happen in the end. We got clues with the jerk Senators who passed the bill for the fence and then pulled its funding. Its all smoke and mirrors without any real substance.

Their goal is to fool the American public into thinking something was done about illegal aliens while millions of new illegals stream into the country (but you are not supposed to see them).

Read the following and see if you can understand EXACTLY what is meant:

http://www.citizenjoe.org/node/300

Issue in Brief

Bush put immigration policy - including both tougher enforcement and the creation of a guest worker program for the millions of illegal immigrants in the US - at the top of his second term agenda. While Congress passed small measures in Spring '05 to stem illegal immigration and okayed a 700 mile fence on the Mexico border in late 2006, lawmakers have up til now avoided the more politically tricky territory of what to do with the 10 million plus illegals who are already in the states. That could change in 2007.

Status: The House and Senate passed two bills over the past year to address illegal immigration - coming from almost opposite ends; the House bill focused almost exclusively on enforcement to stop the flow of illegals, while the Senate bill also included measures to give illegals (who have been here two plus years) a road to legitimacy. With the shift in congressional power over to the Democrats in 2007, the NYT is reporting that a new Senate bill in the works could make it easier for illegal immigrants to work toward citizenship and may scrap plans to build a 700 mile fence on the Mexican border (NYT).

What was passed in Spring 2005:
A mixed bag of immigration policies rode into law on the coattails of an Iraq funding bill, including House backed curbs on immigration as well as a Senate measure to loosen limits on seasonal workers. The final version of the bill included:

measures to make it harder for immigrants to seek asylum and easier for the US to deport immigrants;

standards for states to follow in granting drivers' licenses;

funding to beef up borders;

a higher ceiling on the number of seasonal workers.

The House bill on security:
The House bill passed a more far reaching bill in late December 2005 that would (WP):

require employers to verify all of their workers are legal through a national database;

require border security to hold on to illegal crossers until they can be returned home;

expand the grounds for deporting illegals;

build a 700 mile fence along about a third of the Mexico/US border,

make it a crime to provide assistance for an illegal immigrant NYT,

make it a felony to be in the country illegally.

The House bill will have to be meshed with the Senate immigration bill before becoming law.

The Senate's border security and guest worker bill:
A number of proposals on how to create a "guest worker" plan were batted around the Senate in early 2006. The compromise bill that senators landed on - and passed in May - gives most undocumented immigrants a route to citizenship, while adding in a bunch of anti-illegal immigration measures a la the House bill.

The Senate bill would:

Allow illegal immigrants who have been in the country five years or more to stay and apply for permanent status;

Also allow illegal immigrants who have been here for two to five years to apply for permanent status - but only after returning to a "point of entry" to apply;

Require illegal immigrants who have been here under two years to return home;

Require illegals who are seeking legal status to pay a fine of $3,250,

Set up a guest worker program that doles out 200,000 guest worker visas a year, with a separate guest worker system for farm workers, (WP)

Beef up surveillance on the borders, including more jail cells for detainees, 1,000 more border agents, a 6,000 National Guard force to support border agents (WP & WP),

Require employers check the legal status of new employees using a nationwide database (starting 18 months after Congress sets aside money for the program - WP & NYT), and increase the penalties on employers that hire illegals.

Approve funds to double the number of beds at border detention centers - from 19,000 beds to 39,000 (WP) (According to the Washington Post, Homeland Security's inspector general says a total of 54,000 beds would be needed to hold all "dangerous" illegal immigrants.) (WP)

Make English the "national language" of the US (mostly thought to be a symbolic gesture, since it wouldn't be changing any existing laws)

Build a 370 mile fence along the Mexico border (which is 2000 miles long)

Prevent illegal immigrants with one felony or three misdemeanors from getting a work permit

Give employees the ability to petition the government for a work permit (Congress Daily),

Increase the list of felonies that warrant deportation (including carrying fake documents) and make it harder for immigrants to get access to the courts. (WP)

A number of amendments that were voted on didn't make it into the final bill, including amendments that would:


Keep any guest worker plan from starting until the borders were secure. (WP) failed to pass

Cut out the guest worker plan. (WP) failed to pass

Require that the 200,000 yearly guest workers return home after their guest worker visas run out and not be eligible for citizenship. failed to pass (WP)

Require workers' employers be the ones who petition the government for a work permit passed... but then nixed in later amendment... but taken back (okay, we lost track)

Other border securing plans:
While the immigration bill was being fiercely debated, Congress more quietly tacked on $2 billion to an emergency funding bill in June to pay for more security at the border, including $400 million for 6,700 beds at detention centers (or $300 million for 4,000 beds? - WP), $700 million to send the National Guard to help out at the border (6,000 are now there helping out) and $400 million to hire 1,000 border guards.

Congress also approved a 700 mile fence along parts of the Mexico border in September, 2006, but critics say the fence already has problems; it leaves 1,300 miles unfenced, only $1.2 of the $6 billion needed to build it is funded, and it crosses rugged land as well as Indian nation land. (WP) Democratic leaders, who are set to take over Congress in 2007, have also mentioned scrapping the fence in favor of a "virtual" fence of monitors and sensors. A Washington Post article says the administration is already working on a virtual fence on both the Mexican and Canadian border, but that its ultimate costs could be anywhere from $2 billion to $30 billion (WP).

more info...
The Congressional Budget Office estimates how much the Senate's bill would cost. In a nutshell, over the next ten years the US would
pay an extra $54 billion in direct services (including health, social security and food stamps but not public schools),

pull in an extra $66 billion from fees, penalties and taxes, and

spend an extra $64 billion on enforcement.

Note: An updated report from the CBO puts those numbers at: $48 billion in services, $44 billion in revenue (although unclear language in the bill makes it look like there could be a $79 billion loss in revenue) and $78 billion in enforcement.

Stateside: Also, as a related aside, USA Today (twice), the Washington Post and the NYTimes (with graphic) describe trends at the state level to restrict - or expand - immigrant rights.

The NY Times whips up a one pager of stats with pretty graphics.

and opinions...
The Washington Post explains why some analysts think a crackdown on illegal immigration won't solve any problems.

A Washington Post editorialist says NAFTA is what is pushing so many immigrants over the Mexican border. Another says a guest worker program is just a way for business to get cheap labor.

Another WP editorialist advocates building a wall, raising wages for Americans and legalizing the undocumented immigrants already here.

Tamar Jacoby of the Manhattan Institute points out problems with all the Senate guest worker bills.

A NY Times article debates how much immigrant workers are needed in our economy vs. how much they're just bringing down low income wages. A NYT op-ed says low income workers would do better without a guest worker bill - and that the rest of America would manage just fine.

Peter Beinart says more enforcement on the Mexico border won't keep out terrorists - because no terrorists are coming through Mexico.

Updated November 11, 2006

nntrixie wrote:

nntrixie wrote:

Folks, the facts are - with few exceptions and I mean very few - as in maybe a half dozen - they are all pro illegal slime balls.

MW wrote:

I know it seems that way sometimes, but in truth, that's an inaccurate statement. Wink

nntrixie wrote:

I don't understand the wink.

If you are agreeing - .

If you are disagreeing - history surely tells us otherwise.

I'm disagreeing with you. There are certainly more than half a dozen in the U.S. Congress that are not "pro-illegal slime balls." IMO, such statements don't do much to show our support for those that do support our cause. Here's what the most recent "history" shows us:

U.S. House enforcement bill:

House of Representatives bill 4437 (The Border Protection, Anti-terrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005) was passed by the United States House of Representatives on December 16, 2005 by a vote of 239 to 182. Passed House (92% of Republicans supporting, 82% of Democrats opposing).

U.S. Senate amnesty bill:

Democrats: 38 yea/4 nay/2 no vote
Republicans: 23 yea/32 nay
Independent: 1 yea

Total 62 for/36 against/2 no vote

I realize things have changed somewhat since the November elections, but we still have a lot more than a dozen friends in the U.S. Congress.

Originally Posted by minnie

Originally Posted by nittygritty

Originally Posted by mkfarnam

Minnie Wrote:
but I have no clue how do I get some adresses to start. Does anybody know ?

Name and Address list( District, city or county wide lists) of registered voters can be obtained(bought) at the "Voter Registars" office. Thats how petititions and solictation mail is sent out.

I feel this is one way to get the word out, I just don't know how expensive it might prove to be, however, if we don't try something like this it might prove to be much more expensive to us in the end!

Nitty, what I'm trying to say, I think you understood, I don't know why the others can't understand, everyone has to take some attitude, here at the board only it will not help our cause and I'm getting each time more anxious, I received 2 answers from my rep. that make me sick, I want to do something but it's very hard to start. I think the kye is the American people, they have to believe in what we are saying. I'm looking for something not expensive, if you think in TV, Radio, Boards, this is expensive and I think to go to this magnitude we have to have somebody to lead, is not somethink we can make by ourselves.
Next tuesday I'm going to call that place and ask how much is going to cost me, but I would like some ideas in what to write on these flyers.
After I talked with some people I realize about immigants only it's not possible but I think more minds can come with much more ideas, to post these letters will not cost any fortune so I think we can all afford it. Even if we send few it's something. We usually contribute little to some organizations, let's try to do something too.

Minnie, I think you are right. I would say that only a few thousand Americans know even what the NAU and the SPP is, most probably could not even say what those letters stand for, you know if we could even get flyers in the mail to people in our own towns and cities there would be that many more who knew and maybe passed it on. I am sure that William, 2ndamendsis, or dixie or any of the other wonderful moderators we have to help us here could help you with what should be the most important info on the flyer, from my side I would say our site at alipac would should be on that flyer somewhere!

MW, I stand by my statement.

Actually, I was being generous by saying 1/2 doz.

The fact that a few managed to vote this way at this particular time doesn't mean they are actually going to do anything about it. One vote does not a decent person make.

Remember, they voted in the fence - sans money.

We have a 90% encumbency rate in congress. That means some of these people have been up there for quite some time - some for a very, very long time.

This has been a very serious problem for 30 years. The only thing to come out of Washington on immigration was the amnesty of the 80's. Since that time, Washington has pretended there was no problem.

If they had truly cared they would have been preaching this from the floor of their respective bodies, writing it in op ed pieces, introducing leglislation, preaching it on street corners.

No, I won't back up from my statement. They have had ample time and opportunity to do something - even to say something and they haven't.

I refuse to delude myself. That's how we got in this mess - pretending they care.

McCain probably couldn't get re-elected in his home state of Arizona if he had to run for re-election right now. I sure wouldn't vote for him again.

The sad thing is, you have a mentality amongst many voters that these politicians have tenure. They think that just because they already have a Republican in place, then why should we change them and run someone else?
Case in point: Kay Bailey Hutchison. She is a nice lady. She is a very kind and caring grandmother. At the same time, I believe many times she is just there for the photo-op, and not to serve her constituents. The problem is, she's been there forever. Who's gonna run against her, no matter how undeserving she is? I brought up Ted Poe to run against John Cornyn for the nomination of junior senator in 2008. My fellow Repubs stared at me like I was speaking in tongues. I guess they think he has tenure so he should stay. That's how Rick Perry won the nomination for governor yet again, though he was booed by many convention attendees.
These politicians are not college professors. They are not allowed, nor should ever expect, tenure!!!

We have only ourselves to blame for their long tenure