Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

Congress officially said obama was born in Hawaii

Whereas August 21, 2009, marks the 50th Anniversary of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's signing of Proclamation 3309, which admitted Hawaii into the Union in compliance with the Hawaii... (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)

HRES 593 EH

H. Res. 593

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

July 27, 2009.

Whereas August 21, 2009, marks the 50th Anniversary of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's signing of Proclamation 3309, which admitted Hawaii into the Union in compliance with the Hawaii Admission Act, enacted by the United States Congress on March 18, 1959;

Whereas Hawaii is `a place like no other, with a people like no other' and bridges the mainland United States to the Asia-Pacific region;

Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961;

Whereas Hawaii has contributed to the diversity of Congress in electing--

(1) the first Native Hawaiian to serve in Congress, Prince Jonah Kuhio Kalaniana`ole;

(2) the first Asian-American to serve in the Senate, Hiram Fong;

(3) the first woman of color to serve in Congress, Patsy T. Mink;

(4) the first Native Hawaiian to serve in the Senate, Daniel Kahikina Akaka; and

(5) the first Japanese-American to serve in the Senate, Daniel Ken Inouye;

Whereas Hawaii is an example to the rest of the world of unity and positive race relations;

Whereas Pearl Harbor is a strategic military base for the U.S. in the Pacific and also a historical site for the Nation, being the location of the December 7, 1941, surprise Japanese aerial attack that thrust the Nation into World War II;

Whereas Hawaii is home to 1/4 of the endangered species in the United States;

Whereas Hawaii has 8 national parks, which preserve volcanoes, complex ecosystems, a Hansen's disease colony, and other sites of historical and cultural significance;

Whereas Kilauea ranks among the most active volcanoes on Earth;

Whereas President Bush nominated the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization World Heritage Centre for consideration to the World Heritage List;

Whereas Hawaii has produced musical legends ranging from traditional favorites such as Alfred Apaka, Don Ho, and Genoa Keawe, to Hawaii renaissance performers such as Eddie Kamae, Raymond Kane, Gabby Pahinui, Israel Kamakawiwo`ole, the Brothers Cazimero, and the Beamer Brothers, and continuing on to contemporary stars such as Keali`i Reichel, Ledward Kaapana, Jake Shimabukuro, and Raiatea Helm;

Whereas Hawaii is culturally rich, as the Hawaiian culture has been protected through Hawaiian language immersion schools, hula competitions such as the Merrie Monarch Festival, canoeing voyages undertaken by vessels like the Hokule`a, and the continuing historic preservation of Hawaiian traditions;

Whereas the Hawaii Statehood Commission has held a Joint Session of the Hawaii State Legislature in honor of statehood and will be celebrating this milestone with a public discussion and with the arrival of the USS Hawaii; and

Whereas for all of these reasons Hawaii is a truly unique State: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives recognizes and celebrates the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State.

Attest:

Clerk.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c ... 111g07g2Q::

I was surprised to learn recently that there were two birth announcements in the local papers, I had only known about one of them. They were found in library archives. If he really was born in Hawaii, game over for those challenging him on this issue. The State Department has been very clear that they don't count passively acquired dual citizenship in these cases, only deliberate acts. For those who are unhappy with his presidency, I think there are a lot more promising venues. I for one am disappointed at his misreading of the seriousness of the job market deterioration, and the way he drew close a person connected with an international labor arbitrage scandal. The jobs issue is something he needs to attend to, and fast.

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Originally Posted by florgal

Oh, I guess we're not really supposed to read those 645 comments on this story

Hawaii Again Declares Obama Birth Certificate Real
State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07 ... ddComments

Anybody else having trouble getting those comments to come up?

Comment count is up to 666, and I can't access it, even after logging in.

(I wonder if the problem is with the '666' or some malicious elf that decided enough is enough.)

I couldn't get the comment section to come up. count was 684. Overwhelmed server perhaps?

I suspect the original linkage is bad. After logging in, I stripped the URL in my browser URL to the following:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07 ... cate-real/

Then I hit the comments button, and went right to the comment section at this URL:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07 ... /comments/

Thanks highlander, it worked. BTW...nice reasonable legalese amidst the mud, the blood and the beer being flung around in the comments section

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

I was surprised to learn recently that there were two birth announcements in the local papers, I had only known about one of them. They were found in library archives. If he really was born in Hawaii, game over for those challenging him on this issue. The State Department has been very clear that they don't count passively acquired dual citizenship in these cases, only deliberate acts. For those who are unhappy with his presidency, I think there are a lot more promising venues. I for one am disappointed at his misreading of the seriousness of the job market deterioration, and the way he drew close a person connected with an international labor arbitrage scandal. The jobs issue is something he needs to attend to, and fast.

Betsy, you may be right. However, I'm not so sure the birth announcements shed any legally credible evidence in this case. I can post a birth announcement in my local paper but it doesn't present evidence IMO that would stand up to much scrutiny since I could post just about anything I want. Then again, I could be wrong

Related:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-930790.html#930790

Ephesians 4:32

Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:42:01 PM by ckilmer



Clearing the Smoke on Obama’s Eligibility: An Intelligence Investigator’s June 10 Report
Editors Note: In December ‘08 a retired CIA officer commissioned an investigator to look into the Barack Obama birth certificate and eligibility issue. On July 21, 2009 westernjournalism.com obtained a copy of the investigator’s report. Here is an unedited version of the report.

June 10, 2009 Report, updated July 18, 2009

The Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii

I think that I now understand the legal background to the question of where Obama was born.

Let’s begin with the statement that Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health released on October 31, 2008. The television and print media used this statement as a reason to prevent and treat with contempt any investigation into whether Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii. But the language of the statement was so carefully hedged and guarded that it should have had the opposite effect.

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-1 prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.â€

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Please guide me to the Amendment and section of the constitution that discusses natural born citizenship requirements as well as it's requirement for POTUS. I am particularly interested in finding out more about Obama's mother and how she could not bestow natural born citizenship status on her son since she wasn't in the country for a long enough period.

TexasBorn, understand that the Obots attempt to blur the distinction between a "citizen" and a "natural born citizen" - a status required for only one office in the country, the Commander-in-Chief (and by succession, the Vice-President, in case he must take the place of the CinC).

After gaining independence from the Crown, the Framers of the Constitution attempted to make a clean break with British Common Law. Instead, they used international law, which was codified in Emmerich de Vattel's The Law of Nations (1758 ). They ported some of de Vattel's work into the Constitution, and the Framers, particularly Jefferson and Franklin, often spoke of his book in glowing terms.

The British Common Law claimed as a "natural born subject" anyone born on soil of the British Empire (doctrine of ius soli). The Framers weren't looking to capture subjects under their power; they wanted to qualify citizens as free men. They used de Vattel's definition of "natural born citizen," one born in the country (ius soli) with no loyalty to another sovereign (ius sanguinis). This was common understanding in 1787, and so it didn't need to be defined in the Constitution. But de Vattel later revised The Law of Nations to spell out that common understanding: a natural born citizen is one born "of the soil" (ius soli, or as normal Americans would say, "under U.S. jurisdiction") and "of parents who are citizens" (ius sanguinis, "by bloodline"). To have "loyalty to no other sovereign" requires birth on the soil and birth to parents who are citizens. Or to one parent who is a citizen in the case of an immaculate conception, as one might expect in the case of ... never mind.

Both major candidates failed to qualify on one or the other of the two criteria. Sen. John McCain was born of parents who were U.S. citizens, stationed at Coco Solo Sub Base in the Panama Canal Zone. Ordinarily, a military dependent abroad would be born in the base infirmary or hospital. But the hospital on Coco Solo had not been built in 1936, so his mother gave birth to him outsize the Zone, in Colon Hospital in Colon, Republic of Panama. Sen. McCain qualified by being born "of parents who are citizens," but failed to qualify by birth on soil under U.S. jurisdiction. Sen. John McCain is a citizen, but not a natural born citizen, no matter how the U.S. Senate attempted to redefine the terms with non-binding Sen. Res. 511. Honorable Senators, changing the Constitution still requires an amendment, ratified by 39 states.

Mr. Obama, on the other hand, may or may not have failed to qualify on both counts. By his own admission, at the time of his birth, his lawful father (not necessarily his biological father) was a Kenyan, a British protected subject at that time. At birth, Barack Obama II was governed by the laws of Great Britain. How could a person governed - at birth - by British law be a U.S. natural born citizen? This was the very eventuality that the Framers intended to prevent: a Commander-in-Chief with loyalty to the Crown, or to any other sovereignty besides the United States. He fails to qualify by being born "of parents who are citizens." End of story.

But some people don't accept that the Constitution was derivative from international law rather than British Common Law. In 1787, they would have been called "Tories." For those people, nothing but location will do to make a person a "citizen", as they call it... notwithstanding that U.S. citizens traveling outside the country have U.S. citizen babies all the time. Such present-day "Tories" are creating confusion, which won't stand in a court of law. They say, "Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, which makes him a citizen. End of story."

Not so fast. First of all, to be the President, it is not enough to be a citizen; one must also be a "natural born citizen."

"No person except a natural born citizen... shall be eligible to the office of President;" U.S. Constitution, Art. II, § 1.

Secondly, it has by no means been established that Barack Obama II was born in Hawaii. The preponderance of the evidence points to Kenya. Everyone there at one time called Barack Obama II a native son of Kenya: the masses and the mixed multitudes, his paternal step-grandmother, his half-sister, his half-brother, and even the Kenyan Ambassador to the U.S., Peter Ogego. (The Kenyan government and the Odinga thugs have since corrected what was public knowledge and told people what to say and what not to say.)

We don't know his birthplace for an absolute certainty as we do his father's "non-U.S. citizenship." But if it is indeed the case that he was born in Kenya, then he is not a U.S. citizen by soil (jurisdiction) nor by the citizenship of his father (who was a British protected subject). His only claim would be through his mother, who was 18 at the time of his birth. However, the Immigration and Nationality Act in effect in 1961 (INA of 1952) stated that for a foreign-born child to be a citizen, a parent must have been a citizen for ten years, five years of which must be after age 14. His mother missed the 19 year age cut by nearly five months. [Correction: by 117 days, or nearly four months.]

If Barack Obama II was born in Kenya, he is not a U.S. citizen at all, unless he has since been naturalized.
He has presented no evidence of naturalization; it would make mock of his claim of natural born citizenship.

On the other hand, no one in Hawaii has any memory of his birth there: neighbors, hospitals, family, friends. His maternal grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, died the day before the election. His younger half-sister, Maya Soetoro, said he was born in Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, which turned out to be incorrect. Mr. Obama now claims he was born in Kapi'olani Hospital for Women and Children, but the hospital says they cannot confirm that unless he authorizes release of information... the one thing he has adamantly refused to do, at the cost of around a million dollars paid to three law firms to keep his records secret. If he has nothing to hide, why has he paid around a million dollars to hide it?

The main peg on which the Obots hang their hopes is the FactCheck "birth certificate," which is not an original birth certificate, but only (claims to be) a Certification of Live Birth, an abstract of a record on the computer database. Until a few days ago, even the Dept. of Hawaiian Lands did not accept such an abstract for proof of Hawaiian ancestry... much less the U.S. State Dept. for issuing passports.

But whatever the Obots claim this computer image to be, a birth certificate or merely a Certification of Live Birth, it is a counterfeit document, a fraud, a forgery, a FAKE. Two counterfeiting and forgery experts have attested it is a forgery, with enough detailed evidence to give anyone a headache.

Last year, "Dr. Ron Polarik" (a pseudonym) spoke to Dr. Alvin Onaka, the Hawaii State Registrar.
"I asked him if Janice Okubo had confirmed that his office produced a 2007 Certification of Live Birth, date-stamped June 6, 2007, with Obama's birth information on it, and he quickly replied:

'Absolutely not. No one in our office confirmed it.'"

It doesn't matter WHAT the Obots claim about their so-called "birth certificate," or what conclusions they derive from it, or what implications derive from those conclusions, or what pretensions they claim thereby, or what citizenship status they attribute to their usurper-in-chief . . .

it's all based upon a LIE. Finis origine pendet. Garbage in; garbage out.

Next up: Keyes et al v. Obama et al in U.S. District Court, Santa Ana, California, Judge David O. Carter, presiding, TBA.

Good posts Grandmasmad and MinuteMan.

Nice to wake up to!

================

How about this one?

Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates
Real documents include doctor, name of hospital
Posted: July 28, 2009 -- 9:35 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105347


Images of two 1961 Hawaii birth certificates similar to the one President Obama purportedly has on file have now been unveiled.



Eleanor Nordyke displays photostats of her twin daughters' birth certificates (Courtesy Honolulu Advertiser)

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.

The Nordykes' certificates include information missing from the short-form document for Obama published online, including the name of the hospital, the name of the attending physician, name and address of the parents, the race of the parents and the race of the baby.

As WND reported yesterday, Hawaii's director of health responded to the growing controversy over the White House's refusal to release Obama's original long-form birth certificate by issuing a statement about the document in apparent contravention of Hawaiian law.

Dr. Chiyome Fukino declared she has seen the "original birth records" that verify Obama was born in Hawaii and is a "natural-born American citizen," the Honolulu Advertiser reported.

But in two separate telephone interviews with WND, Janice Okubo, the health department's public information officer, told WND that Hawaii law prohibited her from commenting on the birth records of any specific person.

WND also reported the Hawaii Department of Heath affirmed that no paper birth certificate records were destroyed when the department moved to electronic record-keeping in 2001.

The statement to WND by Janice Okubo, public information officer for state's health department, contradicted CNN U.S. President Jon Klein, who ordered host Lou Dobbs to quit discussing Obama's birth certificate on the air. Klein insisted the issue was "dead" because Obama's original long-form birth certificate had been destroyed by the Hawaii DOH in the conversion to electronic files.

A close examination of the birth certificates issued by Kapi'olani to the Nordyke twins shows the registration number precedes the number given Obama, even though the future president was born a day earlier.

Susan Nordyke was born at 2:12 p.m. Hawaii time and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10637, which was filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

Gretchen Nordyke followed at 2:17 p.m. and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10638, which was also filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961.

According to a version of Obama's purported short-form certificate available from FactCheck.org, Obama was given a higher registration number than the Nordyke twins. The online image indicates the number is No. 151 – 1961 – 10641, even though he was born Aug. 4, 1961, the day before the twins, and his birth was registered with the Hawaii registrar three days earlier, Aug. 8, 1961.

The middle figure in Obama's purported registration also is different than the Nordykes'. Obama's is 1961, indicating the year, while the Nordykes' is merely 61.

One explanation for the out-of-order serial numbers might be that several serialized stacks of birth certificates were made available at different hospitals.

Another possibility is that Obama's number is not a genuine registration number created in 1961 but was issued when the short-form document was generated during the 2008 presidential campaign.

Eleanor Nordyke told WND she thinks her twins got lower numbers because she went into the hospital Aug. 4, 1961, and was in labor for 20 hours before she delivered. She speculates that Ann Dunham came in after her and was given a later number, even though Dunham's baby was born earlier. Nordyke's twins were not born until the afternoon of the next day.

WND was unable to receive a response from Hawaii officials regarding the state's procedure for issuing registration numbers.

Meanwhile, an image of an apparently fraudulent Kenyan certificate of birth circulated on the Web today from an unknown source. It alleged Obama was born in Mombasa. But a contributor at FreeRepublic.com debunked it, declaring "Busted!"

He pointed out that the background text, in Dutch, explained, in a rough translation, "This is not a government document. This is political commentary."

Actually, the way it worked back then (I am OLD, ok, I admit it) is that the material for birth announcements did not come from the parents, but from the local health department who gathered them from hospital reports. When I gave birth I was warned that the information would be given out, and that I should expect all sorts of free samples and business solicitations as a result. A parent could not call in an announcement and have it placed in what used to be a regular newspaper column. One of the columns even says where the information came from.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

I was surprised to learn recently that there were two birth announcements in the local papers, I had only known about one of them. They were found in library archives. If he really was born in Hawaii, game over for those challenging him on this issue. The State Department has been very clear that they don't count passively acquired dual citizenship in these cases, only deliberate acts. For those who are unhappy with his presidency, I think there are a lot more promising venues. I for one am disappointed at his misreading of the seriousness of the job market deterioration, and the way he drew close a person connected with an international labor arbitrage scandal. The jobs issue is something he needs to attend to, and fast.

Betsy, you may be right. However, I'm not so sure the birth announcements shed any legally credible evidence in this case. I can post a birth announcement in my local paper but it doesn't present evidence IMO that would stand up to much scrutiny since I could post just about anything I want. Then again, I could be wrong

Originally Posted by grandmasmad

Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:42:01 PM by ckilmer




What is going on here? Either the political research department at CNN is a complete joke or the Hawaiian Dept of Health has been changing its story.

We know from a document posted on June 10, 2009 on the Department of Hawaiian Homelands website that, up until very recently, either the original paper Certificates of Live Birth and/or scanned images of those paper certificates were maintained by the Dept of Health, and copies of them were provided to confirm claims of Hawaiian ancestry. But if in June 2009 the Department of Hawaiian Homelands has decided that it will no longer require the original Certificate of Live Birth as proof for special privileges and the Department of Health spokesman says firmly that they will no longer provide copies of these original certificates, is it possible that, in the midst of the controversy over where Barack Obama was born, the Hawaiian state govt has destroyed the original paper certificate of live birth? This seems almost incredible to me, but the authorities have been so deceptive and evasive on this issue, that it cannot be dismissed as impossible.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2303258/posts

Either that or they now have a forgery that they feel will pass muster.