Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

From WordPress, I received links to this series of videos.

Chris Strunk is speaking with Sandra Schulte (Speak Up) on 6-05-09 about his current presidential FOIA case and demands Quo Warranto trial in Washington DC.

For any questions or to contact Chris Strunk go to: http://www.strunk.ws

[Ed. This is an interesting interview. I would suggest readers watch all parts. I haven't dissected all points made but there are some very interesting questions raised. The US in bankruptcy and passing us essentially as chattel to the bankers has always fascinated me but I haven't done enough research myself into it. It wouldnt surprise me at all to learn that the original concept of the country has been transmogrified into a financial Matrix where we only think we are the owners of our land and money and lives while these bankster elites play this game where they sit around sipping tea and laughing about how they own us and we dont even know it...]

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH7rZIjgQjk

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGsGud2atmQ

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2sE-McQks0

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hQn0cwj3_g

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfSishhBSoM

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAJPs1KZdGs

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

What about the New York Times on the subject of travel by Americans to Pakistan in 1981?

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/23/trave ... 981&st=cse

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/trave ... 981&st=cse

See also: http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/148791

What if it turns out there was no ban on Americans travelling to Pakistan at the time Obama admits to having gone there?

I'm with Betsy Ross on this one. We just don't know for sure, without a State Dept. publication about the U.S. relationship with Pakistan when young Barack Obama traveled to Pakistan, that is, prior to August 17, 1981. This is one of many subjects that are in doubt simply because Mr. Obama refuses to be transparent about his personal documents, ranging from his birth documents to potential Presidential deliberations which may one day be stored in the National Archives.

A U.S. passport may have been sufficient to reach Lahore or Karachi, but it would have attracted some very negative attention from Is|amist militants at "check points" when traveling in northern or western Pakistan.

Even so, it is Mr. Obama who is withholding the documentation necessary to establish the facts. We should not grant him "the benefit of the doubt," but rather recognize that he is causing that doubt by hiding the evidence.

We already have more than enough proof that Mr. Obama is Constitutionally ineligible for the office of President, not being a natural born citizen. We don't need to muddy the waters with an ineligibility question of lesser certainty.

The following are mentions in this thread of Mr. Obama's 1981 trip to Pakistan.
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There is evidence that Lolo Soetoro's adopted son, Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama II, is still an Indonesian citizen. Barry Soetoro traveled to Pakistan at age 20, presumably on an Indonesian passport, because visiting Pakistan was probably discouraged for Americans - was the Islamic Republic of Pakistan a proscribed nation or a "nation of concern" in 1981?

We have knowledge of his visit to Pakistan at age 20, possibly to Pashtun territory for a "quail hunt," and probably on his Indonesian passport. That would violate too many laws to list. (Traveling on a U.S. passport would have been problematic, or dangerous, while touring Pakistan, especially north and west Pakistan.)
_______________________________________

You can write Mohammed Hasan Chandoo at

hasan@chandoo.com

and ask him what nationality passport Barack Obama or Barry Soetoro was using when they went to Pakistan together in 1981. But understand that he hasn't replied to my email, and he probably won't reply to yours either.
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HOWEVER, IT APPEARS THAT:
- beginning of hypothetical conjecture -
Barry Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen from 1967 to 1971, acquired an Indonesian passport and never surrendered it.
He returned to Indonesia in 1981 as Barry Soetoro "to see his mother" (who had actually been in Hawaii for the previous year).
Barry Soetoro renewed his Indonesian passport and acquired a Pakistan visa as an Indonesian citizen, after age 18, thus forfeiting Barack Obama II's U.S. citizenship.
Barry Soetoro traveled from Indonesia to Pakistan, which was off limits for U.S. citizens bearing U.S. passports.. [ED.: Pakistan was NOT off limits to U.S. citizens bearing U.S. passports, but remember, this is a hypothetical conjecture.]
He went "bird hunting" in the western and/or northern reaches of Pakistan (can you say "Pashtun country?")
Barry Soetoro then went to Kenya for a visit before returning home to Hawaii. If he had tarried longer with his Obama kinfolk in Kenya, he could even have flown from Nairobi to New York, to begin classes at Columbia University. But he had to return to Hawaii to end his travels as Indonesian citizen Barry Soetoro.
There he re-assumed his identity as U.S. citizen Barack Obama II, bearing a U.S. passport.
- end of hypothetical conjecture -
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Originally Posted by armbruster512

Where are his immigration documentations that stated that he traveled to Pakistan under a US Passport. Fat chance there. Pakistan us OFF LIMITS to all but emergency travel in 1980-1981.

[On Aug. 17, 1981, the State Dept. issued a Travel Advisory on Pakistan which informed travelers using U.S. passports of the requirement to obtain a visa before entering Pakistan, not upon entering Pakistan.]
_______________________________________

His U.S. citizenship and status were not impaired by being an Indonesian citizen from ages 6 to 10. But unless you have another method, we must assume that he renewed his Indonesian passport upon his return to Indonesia in 1981, in order to travel to Pakistan. As an adult, that required renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

By his own admission, Barack Obama II traveled to Pakistan in 1981, which was prohibited for U.S. citizens bearing U.S. passports [a false assumption, but, whatever]. The only other possibility is that he traveled on a passport from another country, e.g., Indonesia. To get a passport from another country, even to renew his childhood Indonesian passport, required renouncing his U.S. citizenship. Therefore, he is no longer a U.S. citizen, much less a natural born citizen. If you know ANY other way he could have traveled back and forth to Pakistan without setting off alarms at his U.S. port of entry, there are MANY Is'amist terr0rists who want just a minute of your time.
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Originally Posted by On an AOL blog, Mobigdog

Mr. Obama.... show us you did not travel to Pakistan in 1981 with your college roomates (Mujammad Hassan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both Pakistani) on an Indonesian passport. (It was illegal for US citizens to go to Pakistan in the summer of 1981).

In 1981, when Pakistan was a forbidden travel destination for U.S. citizens carrying U.S. passports, how did Barack Obama II go to Pakistan and return to the U.S.?

If he used a freshly-renewed Indonesian or other foreign passport, he had to renounce his U.S. citizenship to get it. That makes him an illegal alien.

In 1967, his new stepfather adopted (or acknowledged) him and made him an Indonesian citizen so he could go to public school: Fransiskus Assisi school (Catholic) from 1967 to 1970 and Besuki primary school (public), Menteng, Jakarta, from 1970 to 1971. As an Indonesian citizen, he could not use his old U.S. passport to leave Indonesia and return to Honolulu in 1971; he must have used an Indonesian passport.

His stepfather, not he as an adult, naturalized him as Indonesian, so his U.S. citizenship never expired. But neither did his Indonesian citizenship, until age 21. When he went to Pakistan with his two Pak roommates in 1981, at age 19 or 20, he could not use a U.S. passport. Pakistan was off-limits for U.S. citizens on U.S. passports.

So, on the way to Pakistan, he made a side trip to Indonesia, where he was still legally an Indonesian citizen named Barry Soetoro. Presumably, he then renewed Barry Soetoro's Indonesian passport and continued on to Pakistan. He left Pakistan as Barry Soetoro on his Indonesian passport and went to Kenya to visit his step-grandmother, Mama Sarah Obama, and his home folks. Then he left Kenya as Barack Obama II on his U.S. passport and returned to Hawaii before going on to Columbia University.

Barack Obama's secrecy about his long form Certificate of Live Birth is matched only by his secrecy in withholding... his passport record and his repatriation papers after his citizenship in Indonesia and again after renewing his Indonesian passport to travel to Pakistan. Even officials in Kenya say that his birth records there are "top secret" and "classified" - without saying whether they exist.

But at age 19 or 20, after the age of majority, he traveled back to Indonesia and from there, to Pakistan. In 1981, Pakistan was off limits to U.S. citizens, so he could not have traveled on a U.S. passport. The other possibility is that he, as Barry Soetoro, renounced his U.S. citizenship in Indonesia in order to renew his childhood Indonesian passport, before continuing on to Pakistan. (Unless he did the same thing in some other country, which is unlikely.)

In 1981, Barack Obama II flew from Hawaii to Indonesia before continuing to Pakistan. Did he then renew his childhood Indonesian passport, renouncing his U.S. citizenship in the process, in order to travel to Pakistan without targeting himself as an American? We don't know. Without a court order to the U.S. State Dept. to produce his passport history from 1981, we won't even know whether ex-Sen. Obama is a U.S. citizen or an Indonesian illegal alien.

Also, when he visited Indonesia in 1981, if Barack Obama II renounced his U.S. citizenship after the age of majority to resume his Indonesian citizenship and renew his childhood Indonesian passport for his trip to Pakistan, then he ceased to be a U.S. citizen, and he became an Indonesian citizen illegal alien in the U.S..

8 USC § 1481 (a) reads:
"A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality" ...
"(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years;"

But I do not believe he did that. Until I see a U.S. State Dept. or Dept. of Defense travel advisory banning travel to Pakistan in 1981, I believe he traveled to Pakistan legitimately on his U.S. passport.
_______________________________________

Originally Posted by Orly Taitz, Esq.,

Barry Soetoro, a.k.a. Barak Obama, has first allegiance to Indonesia, having Indonesian citizenship with renunciation of US citizenship, by adoption/legal acknowledgment by Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo, a citizen of Indonesia, per Constitution of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958, Art. 2 (1), as required to enroll in Indonesian schools, per school records and travel to Pakistan in 1981

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Originally Posted by In WorldNetDaily, Bob Unruh

Several details of Obama's past have added twists to the question of his eligibility and citizenship, including his family's move to Indonesia when he was a child, his travel to Pakistan in the '80s when such travel was forbidden to American citizens and conflicting reports from Obama's family about his place of birth.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=87622

Mr. Unruh later revised this statement about Pakistan.
_______________________________________

We have knowledge of his visit to Pakistan at age 20, possibly to Pashtun territory for a "quail hunt," and probably on his Indonesian passport. That would violate too many laws to list. (Traveling on a U.S. passport would have been problematic, or dangerous, while touring Pakistan, especially north or west of Karachi in 1981.)
_______________________________________

Originally Posted by In WorldNetDaily, Bob Unruh

Several details of Obama's past have added twists to the question of his eligibility and citizenship, including his family's move to Indonesia when he was a child and on what nation's passport he traveled to Pakistan in the '80s, as well as conflicting reports from Obama's family about his place of birth.

_______________________________________

Originally Posted by In the Military.com forum, an unidentified poster

"If anybody does their research they find out that a full investigation was conducted regarding McCain's eligibility (born on a military base on foreign soil), but no such investigation was done for BO. BO admits to traveling to Pakistan in 1981, when it was illegal to do so for US citizens at the time, how did he pull that off?"

_______________________________________

[quote=Orly Taitz, Esq.]There's another problem. No record of Obama holding an American passport prior to the one he received once becoming a U.S. senator has been found. If he traveled to Pakistan with an American passport, he wouldn't have been allowed in - since Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and under martial law. It was also on the State Department's travel ban list for U.S. citizens.

If he couldn't get into Pakistan with a U.S. passport, perhaps he went there with an Indonesian passport. But the only way you can get one of those is if you are an Indonesian citizen.

That's quite possible since under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son - in this case Obama - to be an Indonesian state citizen, which was also recorded by Obama's school record.

So, if he didn't go to Indonesia in 1981 to visit mom (who had returned to Hawaii by then), might it have something to do with the fact that Indonesian passports expire every five years and it was time for renewal?[quote]

Stepping a little sideways here, it seems the usurper has memory problems.





WND Exclusive VIDEONETDAILY
Mr. President, we have a problem
Obama recalls Apollo 11 splashdown in Hawaii – while he lived in Indonesia
Posted: July 22, 2009
9:35 pm Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

On this week's 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing, President Obama praised the pioneering American astronauts and recalled his own childhood memories in Hawaii of NASA capsules splashing down in the Pacific.

But Houston, we have a problem. The president actually lived in Indonesia in 1969.

Obama met with Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin in the Oval Office July 20 to commemorate the historic landing.

He praised the men for their "heroism, calm under pressure" and "grace."

"I think that all of us recall the moment in which mankind finally was untethered from this planet and was able to explore the stars; the moment in which we had one of our own step on the moon and leave that imprint that is there to this day," the president said.

(Story continues below)




During his speech with the Apollo 11 crew, Obama told the astronauts:

The country continues to draw inspiration from what you've done. I should note, just personally, I grew up in Hawaii, as many of you know, and I still recall sitting on my grandfather's shoulders when those capsules would land in the middle of the Pacific and they'd get brought back and we'd go out and we'd pretend like they could see us as we were waving at folks coming home. And I remember waving American flags and my grandfather telling me that the Apollo mission was an example of how Americans can do anything they put their minds to.

The following is a White House video of his speech:

However, Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather – and not with his grandfather and grandmother, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, in Hawaii.

Despite several statements made by the president about his childhood years in Jakarta, Obama's own White House biography begins with his alleged birth in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, and makes no mention of Indonesia.

It was not until Obama turned 10 that he moved to Honolulu to live with his grandparents.

The White House declined to respond to WND's request for clarification concerning Obama's account of being in Hawaii during the event.

The Apollo 11 splashdown took place 1,440 nautical miles east of Wake Island and 210 nautical miles south of Johnston Atoll on July 24, 1969 – just before Obama's eighth birthday.


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104703

That is the problem when you lie so many times, eventually you will lie about something easily verifiable.

I'm not sure of the overal context - could he be referring to some of the later Apollo missions? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apollo_missions.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

I'm not sure of the overal context - could he be referring to some of the later Apollo missions? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apollo_missions.

Impossible to tell, but I find his memory concerning either way. 57 states, wrong Apollo mission (or he made it up, only he knows), Also we shouldn't forget the following gems:

[color=red]Last May, he claimed that tornadoes in Kansas killed a whopping 10,000 people: “In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died — an entire town destroyed.â€

Originally Posted by cayla99

I could go on and on, but he either has a brain disorder that does not allow his memory to correctly function, which is scary being in the position he is in OR he lies to make himself sound important, which is also a mental disorder.

Cayla, you are speaking about a spiritual problem, which I also experienced before being born again of the Holy Spirit, or being baptized with the Holy Spirit by the Lord Jesus Christ, whichever phrase you prefer.

My heart and my mouth were full of lies and falsehoods. It could well have been spoken of me, "the Truth is not in him." But after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved, the Spirit of Truth came to indwell this "clay pot." Exaggeration and made up experiences disappeared from my speech, and God's Truth took their place.

As one who has been there and recognizes the problem, I say, the Truth is not in Mr. Obama. He is not saved. He does not know Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life. He is not a new creation in Christ Jesus, and old things have not passed away. His heart, his life, his mind, and in this case, his tongue, are not regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Pray for his salvation:
that he recognize his sinful and lost condition, and
that he repent of sin and trust the Lord Jesus Christ, calling upon Him to be saved
through the forgiveness of sins which He purchased at the cross for all who will believe, and
that he receive God's gift of eternal life.

If I hear one more news announcer say, "It is widely believed that Gov. Sarah Palin is resigning to prepare for a Presidential bid in 2012"...

She says she resigned to protect her family from all the frivolous lawsuits filed against her as Governor.

Her term as Governor of Alaska would have ended at the beginning of 2011, giving her nearly two years to run for President in 2012 - plenty of time. But by resigning now, she is positioned to run for President in 2009, should Mr. Obama resign or be removed from office.

You are entitled to your opinion, but IMO, Mr. Obama will not be in power much longer. Mrs. Palin will be prepared to run, either against Acting POTUS Pro Tem Joe Biden or Sec. Hillary Clinton.

Some of the factual oopses could be the fault of his entourage. All public officials depend heavily on other people to digest news and facts and do research for them. They are often wrong about things as a result.

Written order in the dismissal of the cook case, if anybody is interested.


http://www.scribd.com/full/17498580?acc ... uqaostqzwr

Originally Posted by cayla99

Written order in the dismissal of the cook case, if anybody is interested.

http://www.scribd.com/full/17498580?acc ... uqaostqzwr

Cayla,

I found this dismissal written order to be a very good thing.

1. It was a written dismissal, describing the court's reasons for dismissing the case. Courts don't always do that - there is often no written detailed record of why a case is dismissed. Written dismissals are often used by the court to tell the plaintiff what is wrong with his case so that he (the plaintiff) can effect a remedy. Really basic, but this was a good thing.

2. Standing requires an actual loss to the plaintiff. Cook had at the time NOT sustained a loss. Cook by now HAS sustained an "injury in fact" at Obama's hands (via the DoD) - namely his job, and maybe his military career. Will Cook continue his legal actions? TBD.

3. The dismissal may lead us to understand why none of the fired executives have filed any law suits, in spite of the fact they have direct standing (their 'injury in fact' was loss of their job). It should be clear to us all by now that Obama, who is in control of the nation's banks, paid potential litigants off and had them sign an agreement not to disclose and not to sue. That's the Chicago way (well, either that way, or a block of cement and a Great Lake - both techniques seem to work well).

4. The court seems to recognize the problem with Cook's receiving orders to deploy as a valid legal issue ("there is no evidence that Major Cook is likely subject to future deployment orders.") included in standing. The DoD subsequently did its job to help Obama (or maybe Cook) by making sure this standing issue (Cook's future deployment orders) never happens again.

5. The Cook case dismissal thus also points us to understanding why Obama is doing so much of his evil work through Congress and others (people like his czars) - it links responsibility for the legal problems he is causing to other parties, and Obama gets to dodge another responsibility bullet. Who says lawyers aren't smart? Problems I am thinking of that can be indirectly linked to Obama include bankrupting our nation, destroying businesses - everything Obama is doing that would give every one of us standing.

So, all things considered, my suggestions to removing Obama and fixing the problems he is causing includes the following:

1. The feds seem to have no obligation to clean their own unconstitutional house - they just don't care. The individuals are in it for their own financial gain, power and glory. I increasingly believe the solution to solving federal problems actually lies within the states. "The states are FREE SOVEREIGN and INDEPENDENT states; the United States are a confederation of states, that we are a confederated and not a consolidated republic." (quote courtesy of Connecticut legislature, circa 1812). Having said that, and courtesy of the 16th Amendment, the federal redistribution of income tax money collected back into the states effectively buys every state's loyalty into federal abuses of power.

2. The Tenth Amendment efforts going on now may be the best and most proper legal approach to solving federal problems, but as Arizona has learned recently, the states had better resolve the money situation first, because it is clear that any resistance to the feds control offered by the states will result in blackmail threats of holding back the federal tax money distribution, including money to state citizens on social security, medicare, highway funds, etc.

The feds, under Obama's Chicago type manipulation, will use whatever threats and duress they can muster in order to retain their totalitarian control of our country. This shows the past and ongoing foolhardy approach of the states counting on the feds anyway - if the states had retained their sovereignty and their independence, we wouldn't be in this fix today.

3. The citizens, if they ever want their confederated republic back, had better start marching on their own state capitals and replacing their unconstitutional governors, judges, congressmen, and senators, and forcing their own states back into sovereign and constitutional status, and then they (we) will be able to tell the feds where, when, and how to get off the bus.

The state governments have not been doing the right thing inside the states for their own citizens for many years, and the state's congressional representatives have likewise allowed the unconstitutional behavior to happen at the federal level for many years. Our system of government has been corrupted.

4. This state-federal problem is also linked directly to the 1) banks, 2) our fraudulent money system, 3) our federally controlled education system, 4) international financiers controlling our economy, and 4) our tax system - all constitutional and lawful money related problems.

5. The states are legally allowed to hold their own nullification conventions and decide which federal laws and statutes they consider unlawful or onerous to their state, and choose which federal laws not to follow.

The improper interpretation of the commerce clause by the feds is the very insidious technique the feds have used to obtain and retain control over the states, but that damage can be overturned through the efforts of courageous states (and they will have to be courageous states, because the job they must do will be extremely long term and will be extremely challenging).

Clean up our states, our money, banking, and tax system, and our education system, and we will have started to clean up our country.