Thread: A few questions to all of the members here from an observer

Did your ancestors have a right to immigrate? They did, didn't they? (Unless you are American Indian of course)

My ancestors were immigrants, but they went thru the LEGAL way of obtaining citizenship. They had to learn ENGLISH in order to survive and become a true American.

The illegal immigrants have no interest in learning English and expect everyone else to be bilingual. Illegal immigrants receive free health care, handouts from the Government and do not pay income taxes. They are costing the Legal Citizens Billions of dollars in health care, welfare, taxes and insurance premiums.

[quote]Illegal immigration is a serious problem that many Americans simply do not want to face. By not facing it, we diminish the immigrantsâ€â€

Originally Posted by roberto

Why do you feel so strongly about the illegal immigration issues in The US?
Is it because of security?
Is it because of jobs?
Or is it something else?

All of the above, and then some. You left out the fact that they are also bypassing health requirements and as a result are bringing in some terrible diseases. They are creating en economic burden upon our society in the form of increased health care costs, increased crime and law enforcement costs, and increased educational costs.

Originally Posted by roberto

As far as security is concerned. As I mentioned, I am not an "Open Borders" advocate. I believe we should know who is coming in our country and should monitor for people who are considered threats to our country. I don't think good, hard working people should have to suffer for this, as many do.

I think 11 to 20 million people within our nation, and some 10,000 per day in addition, whose first act within our nation is to show contempt for the law IS a threat. Further, when 10,000 people CAn cross per day, carrying tons of cocaine and marijuana... it would not be difficult at all for a few arabic types carrying 5 pounds of anthrax spores to mix in with them. Terrorists entering the country thru the southern border is a known FACT. Just as 50 missing soviet suitcase nukes are a FACT.

Originally Posted by roberto

As far as jobs are concerned, I, personally, am 100% positive that I am a good enough worker at what I do. I am not at all concerned about losing my job to an immigrant or a non-immigrant. Why should we fear that? If you know that you are the best at what you do, you should not worry. That is my opinion. If someone comes along who is better than you, then you fell short of doing your part. If I was a business owner, I would higher the BEST person to fill the position. It is YOUR job to be the best at what you do.

It is not so much a matter of who is doing a better job. The jobs they are occupying are not, for the most part, rocket scientist positions. They are jobs in processing plants, warehouses, farms, construction work, landscaping, and recent studies show they are moving into higher skill jobs these days as well. An American does not have to perform as well as a mexican to keep his job.. he has to perform BETTER, since if all else is equal, they will choose to hire a mexican who is willing to work for minimum wage. Poultry processing plant workers have not had an appreciable wage increase in 20 years. Such is the main source of employment in my home county, and our average household income is half of the national average. It makes no difference if you have been working in that chicken plant for 15 years... tired of working for $7.50 per hour? Thats too bad.. the company will simply tell ya not to let the door hit you in the backside on your way out, because they can replace you with an illegal in an hour.

Originally Posted by roberto

Here is a scenario:

You were born in the USA.
Jose was born in Peru.

Does that make you a better person than Jose?
No. It does not.

Jose has lived the same GOOD life that you have. He went to school. He works hard. He is married and has children. Jose's daughter ends up here in the USA (LEGALLY) She is now a US resident. She is going to get married here in the US. Jose attempts to LEGALLY come to the US to attend his daughters wedding. He gets denied by the Embassy. (Sorry Jose, Try again in 6 months.. Denied again.)

That scenario doesn't have to be a wedding. It could be that Jose's daughter is gravely ill in a hospital in the US and he is only trying to visit his daughter. But he is denied. I'm sure any father could sympathize with that. It is only human that a father would want to attend his daughters wedding or visit his sick family member in the hospital. But he can't. Why? Because he is a bad person? No. Because of where he is born. That is just not right.

Ahh.. anecdotes. They can be quite interesting.. especially when an example such as the one given accounts for less than probably 1/10th of 1% of the illegals entering in the country.... while the other 99.9% are simply coming for economic benefits.

Originally Posted by roberto

Also... How many people want to come here from other countries because there are no jobs in their country? All they want is an opportunity to make an honest living for themselves and their families. (Just as my grandparents did. And probably most of your ancestors as well.) And they are denied that. Is that right? Is that fair?

Life is not fair. It is not fair that some are born in poor countries. It is not fair that some are rich and I am not. It is not fair that if I die at 55, someone lives to be 70. It is not fair that if one person gets struck by lightning tomorrow, that you do not as well. Who the hell ever told you life was fair? Welcome to reality.

Since we are going to embark on a crusade to make the world fair for everyone... well, as we cannot provide everyone else in the world with a house and a car, such as you probably possess.. the only way we can make it fair is to demolish YOURS. I assume when someone breaks into your home and rips off your computer and everything else next week, that you are not gonna bother calling the cops.. after all, they are simply correcting a situation of unfairness.. you have those things and the thief did not.

Originally Posted by roberto

I don't think so. Denying HONEST, GOOD people entrance here. You wouldn't like it if it was your family member. Is it ok to start turning the good people away now... Is it ok now because you and your relatives are already here? Is that why?

The world is full of good people who want to come here. The world is also full of bad people who want to come here. Unfortunately no crystal ball exists to identify which is which, and even if there were... there is not enough room here for everyone. We have NEVER been obligated to accept any and everyone who has wanted to come here. We have turned away people for many reasons all thru our history, including during waves of immigration from Europe.

Originally Posted by roberto

I know that most people here are for protecting the borders and all. As I mentioned, I agree with that. But, I also think if we are going to take a stance on something, we need to look into the bigger picture. Why are so many good, law abiding people denied access?

Those who come here illegally have demonstrated they are not "good, law abiding" people. Those who DO spend the time jumping thru the hoops are the ones we SHOULD be embracing. If it is a little difficult to jump thru those hoops, so much the better, as only the truly ambitious and dedicated... those we WANT.. would go to the trouble. The fact is MANY of those coming here now, have NO INTENTION of EVER becoming citizens... they wish to remain citizens of a foreign land, with their loyalties first to that land, while deriving the benefits of the land which our ancestors shed their sweat and blood to create. Further, once again, there are also health and economic issues... and whether the U.S. is under any obligation to accept the burdens... it is NOT.

Originally Posted by roberto

It could be you, me, your parents or grandparents and so on... I mean think about it for a second. Most US Citizens can get up in the morning and go where ever they want to in the world without having to wait on a 6 month long waiting list and to go to an interview only to get denied. We can go where we want, when we want. And they don’t have that same right as us. Why? Because of where they were born? Is that ok? "Ok.. I can go to Mexico whenever I want! And they better treat me like a king!" but " God forbid they come here and take OUR jobs away!" Sounds pretty elitist to me.
Now, I know this is probably falling on deaf ears, but just think about all the good people that are caught in this mess. Think about your rights and privileges to come and go as you please. Things that we usually take for granted. Then, put yourself in their shoes.

Actually this is a blatant lie, but I will accept it as you are simply ignorant of the facts. One glaring example is how hundreds of Americans are turned away from the Canadian border everyday. You can be turned away if you have even been CHARGED (not convicted) with DUI. I know this for a fact, as I have seen it myself. Canadian Border officials will tell you quite bluntly that you do not have any rights in their country... not even to be there.

Originally Posted by roberto

You say that you are Americans for Legal Immigration. But are you also Americans for DENYING the good people of the world LEGAL Immigration? Because that is the big picture. And that is what is happening.

We are for legal immigration, by those who qualify. We have certain standards, just as every other nation does, on who we wish to allow in. Among the standards we take into account is the persons criminal background, health, their impact upon our economy, etc. Name me any other nation which has no such standards in place.

The bottom line is, our government is paid for by the American Citizens, and thus it's role is to look after the interests of American Citizens.... just as looking after the interests of THEIR citizens is the role of every other government in the world. (though, granted, many do a lousy job)

America should place it's own interests first and foremost... and not apologize for it. Every other nation does. You want to help the rest? Give YOUR money to them... but you have no right to DEMAND that others pay the price for your desire to help the others in the world who are poor. You definitely do not have that right, when the ones who are suffering most, for this aid you wish to give the poor of other countries by letting them come here, is our own WORKING POOR. Your own lack of concern for our own working poor demonstrates to me that YOU are the true elitist.

A man breaks into your home. He makes himself at home in your chair, flips on your TV, grabs some food from your fridge, helps himself to everything you own.

He says "You have a nice house, chair, TV, fridge, car, and mine are not nearly so nice. I am only trying to improve my life, just as you wanted to do when you bought these things. Since you have these things it is not fair that I do not have them too".

Who would say "Sure, you're right. Help yourself to the wife too"?

Why do you feel so strongly about the illegal immigration issues in The US?
Is it because of security?
Is it because of jobs?
Or is it something else?

All of the above. Security, jobs, the huge cost to taxpayers for medical, social, and educational costs. Illegals cost taxpayers a minimum of $25 billion a year. Yes, there are some benefits but they don't outweigh the cost. I can sum my feelings up as follows:

IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE UNITED STATES TO SUBSIDIZE AND/OR SUPPORT FOREIGNERS. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY FOR THAT. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A NATURAL RIGHT TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS. ANYBODY ELSE IS A GUEST OR A TRESPASSER. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONDITIONS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES, SPECIFICALLY CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. THE UNITED STATES HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DENY TOURIST VISAS TO FOREIGN NATIONALS, JUST AS A FOREIGN COUNTRY HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DENY A VISA TO A UNITED STATES CITIZEN.
NEITHER PARTY IS OBLIGATED TO EXPLAIN WHY.

Originally Posted by roberto

I understand what you are saying. And I agree with you. My point is that there is a bigger picture to this. It goes much higher than just the people who are entering the country illegally. I am not sure what nationality you are, but as I mentioned earlier, all of my grandparents were immigrants.

What nationality I am is quite simple. AMERICAN.

you obviously don't know many people from South and Central America. I personally know many.

You hit a nerve here with me,pal. Some very close friends of mine are from Costa Rica. We are a close knit group. They have businesses here -- and there. They are here -- LEGALLY!!!!

Did you get that very important word there -- LEGAL!!!

They hate criminal illegal aliens economic terrorists being here. And they are criminals because they are here ILLEGALLY!!! They will not hire them. There are many of them on Alipac. You may be talking to some and not know it.

Legal Immigrants in America are sick and tired of criminal illegal alien economic terrorists. Legal immigrants had to work hard to get here. They had to learn English and they speak it. If you ask them how they feel, you will get an earfull, let me tell you. They are mad as, well you know the word. They feel just like we do. Deport, deport, deport.

You come to Alipac and make blanket statements to people who you assume have sterotypical thoughts concerning immigrants as a whole. You are stereotyping us simply because we do not care to have people in our Country who are criminals. We have nothing against LEGAL immigrants and they know it. It is the criminal illegal alien economic terrorists we want out of America -- and yesterday would be not be soon enough.

I do not want criminals around me. I do not want a murderer living next door to me nor do I want a criminal illegal alien economic terrorist living next door. In my mind, although murder is a different crime, it is still illegal, still a crime and both should not be allowed in our society. The murderer should be in prison and the

Illegal alien criminal economic terrorist should be

DEPORTED!!!!!!!! Period!!!!!!!

We are ALIPAC. We are Americans for LEGAL IMMIGRATION PAC. If you came here to change our minds, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you came here to start a fight, you can go back where you came from. We have dealt with many people before who tried to upset us, get us offtrack and diffuse our message.

Our message is we LOVE Legal immigrants. We all came from legal immigrants. Some of us are Native American descendants.

Operative word -- LEGAL!!

Criminal illegal alien economic terrorists have no place in our Country. They need to be deported and no amount of rabble babble will change the facts of this truth. And it is a truth.

It is ILLEGAL FOR criminal illegal alien economic terrorists TO BE HERE. They should just admit that fact and go home. This is a fight they cannot win. They are BREAKING THE LAW!!! If they come back legally, fine. Welcome back.

Illegal is illegal.
Here, I've looked it up in the dictionary for you:

1) contrary to or in violation of a law : ILLICIT, UNLAWFUL
2) Prohibited by law.
3) Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
4) Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.

n. An illegal immigrant. (This just happened to listed be in the online dictionary -- I did not add it)!

I hope we have sufficiently answered your questions. Think of some new ones. We're ready for you. And for the rest of the criminal illegal alien economic terrorists who need to go back where they came from

NOW!!!!!

I am the son of a mother who was naturalized with her parents. My mother's family is bilingual. I am part black and have relatives in Mexico and the Dominican Republic. I actually do some volunteer work with each of their consulates.

I am aware that the Mexican government deports well over two hundred thousand illegal immigrants every year. This is a higher percentage of the Mexican population than the American government deports from the USA. The D.R. expelled two thousand mostly illegal Haitian immigrants earlier this year.

The legitimate objective of the immigration polcy of any country not just the United States is maximizing the benefit to the collective community of its citizens not it's immigrants.

The United States in an open democratic process decides how many of what kind of immigrants it wants. We decide how many, with what skills, from where, for how long and when. This is a right exercised by every country in the world.

Not everyone who is a citizen of the United States has the benefit of being in a low competition or protected occupation. Many people are unable to compete a course of training or education due to no fault of their own. Some people have their employers shut down.

Factories can relocate to hire people in depressed areas. The companies can recruit and train employees from within the more marginal portion of our communities. The previously employed can usually be retrained.

If the employers have access to a second source the incentive to recruit and to offer competitive compensation to these domestic sources of labor goes down. The impoverished element remains in the United States. Despite the presence of an illegally arrived working population in need of government assistance so does the Americans whose opportunities they took.

We have one of the most open policies of any country in the world. Our family reunification policy is one which many other countries does not match. There are many people around the world willing to abide with our chosen policies.

There are also many people who have no such respect for our own country's democratic policy. The
people who immigrate without any papers or in a cynical attitude use temporary status to mask a permanent intent are a slap to the face of this our collective community the USA. A tourist or visitors visa is a tourist or a visitors visa not a work permit.

They disrespect and disregard our chosen policy. They then turn to the same government whose set immgration policy they ignored demanding health and education benefits. They also demand to be able to be joined by the rest of their family. This is without a regard to the availability of jobs.

We have the right to decide if and when we need more people and can make plans to provide them with services. The American economy does not exist by magic. We can not have an orderly and beneficial immigration process if we can be held up by people who ignore it.

Once we have visa tracking and sponsor responsibility instead of the easily and to often violated status quo bonafide temporary visitors will have an easier time.

OUTSTANDING POST, Richard!

BTW, since I apparently missed you before...Welcome to ALIPAC. Glad to have you aboard.

Maybe laws don't mean anything or much where you live but where I live, they are to be respected, obeyed, enforced......get the picture? When a law is broken, a crime is committed. That carries a punishment and possibly jail or prison time. People in this country fall into one of two catagories, legal and illegal its just that simple. Illegals have commited a crime just by being here. They don't get the name for nothing.....

What we find amazing is that so many like you, Roberto, don't seem to have a clue about the concept of laws and obeying them or even enforcing them. You're not alone in this. Millions in this country are in the same boat as you. If I didn't know any better, I would think people like you think everything is ok until you get caught.

LAWS ARE MEANT TO BE RESPECTED AND OBEYED AND ENFORCED. Without it, it will be the demise of a country.

I second that, Richard!! Outstanding post!!

Welcome to Alipac! Please come back often.

C