Thread: I think that the Guest Worker Program is lesser of 2 evils

NewEnglandGirl I did not call you a goulash eating fool. That is what the illegals you are defending would say about any of your relatives trying to follow the law.

I would say that you are being PC and that borrowing from the Communist lexicon you are being what would be called a U_____ I____ the U being Useful and the second word I won't print.

There are some Hungarians who come here plannng to overstay a temporary visa. Most Hungarian immigrants are legal immigrants and go through a process that takes years for approval. This contrasts with the illegals who simply cross the border knowing that it is against American law but feel that it should not apply to them. Mexico strictly enforces it's own immigration law while supporting their citizens in violating ours. THE IDEA OF SOMEONE ACTUALLY OBEYING OUR LAW IS SEEN AS FOOLISH OR SOMETHING TO BE EXPECTED OF NON MEXICANS

Besides I rather like goulash and some of my friends are Hungarian. I respect your culture. I have a picture of my uncle posing over lunch with Princess Esterhazy. My grandfather knew the main character in the English Patient.

My father and my mothers brother were both agricultural workers in their late teens. They were also citizens of the United States. Both used the income that they made as agricultural workers to go on towards other jobs. My father got a PhD in biology my uncle became a civil servant in the municipal Labor Department. If you pay enough give them good conditions and allow them to work alongside their friends
American ag workers are easy to find. Heck I have worked certain days in growing vegetables and chicken processing, my boarding school was semi self sufficient in food.

The reason that the employers hire illegals in your area is that they will work for less in salary and conditions. Americans are available to do those same jobs from the pool of unemployed
bu employers have no need to hire them because no one enforcs the requirement to hire citizens and legal immigrants. Unemployed and underemployed Americans still need to meet the cost of living here.

Originally Posted by BobC

BB--I'm kind of retarded, so you'll have to spell it out for me. I'm confused.

Quit putting yourself down BobC. You just seem to be getting really pessimistic lately. With all the choices we have in combating illegal immigration, there is no settling, no compromise, and no deals.
Having someone like NewEnglandGirl is certainly not new or refreshing because these people have been around forever and always will be.
She is just another do-gooder who wants the 'fairest' (in her opinion) form of border control, and that is an 'amnesty' programme.(sp-ha) She is a defintely a Bush-woman, and wants to spread the word, about his mass-invasion take-over of the North American Continent. You just seemed to have a knack of seeing right through these people.

I was being goofy, BB. trying to, God forbid, inject a little humor. I wasn't putting myself down at all.

I think life is all about compromise, so I disagree with you there. One thing I will never compromise on, however, is our border situation in the sense of people from other nations thinking they have a right to be here. As soon as the citizens of Mexico are paying the taxes I pay, Mexico, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico will become "one glorious region" in the words of Gray Davis. Not a moment until.

....oooooo yeah I'd be for a guest worker plan where say Mexicans and Central Americans (really anybody) could go through a legal process where we'd document them, make them pay a bond that they'd only get back when they checked back out of the country when the seasonal field work was done...

What about all the other problems I outlined earlier? Most specifically, who is going to pay their medical bills?

I'd support a stringent guest worker proposal as well once the population of millions of illegal aliens currently in the US started to shrink through enforcement.

These yahoos in Congress and the President are only pouring gasoline on the fire right now.

I'm sticking to the plan. Try to block or stall this Congress from doing anymore damage than they have already done then sweep the body in 2006.

Bush is doing all he can to take the hill before we get there but he is paying a HEAVY cost and will pay a heavier political cost yet before the public and us are done with him.

W

I certainly can NOT see illegal immigration benefitting the county I live in here in NC. Last week our unemployment rate was 13%! Many of my friends have lost their jobs(due to NAFTA) and their unemployment benefits have run out. My best friend cannot find a job anywhere, even at McDonald's. What few jobs were left have been taken by illegal immigrants and the companies that hire them do not worry about breaking the law by doing so, heck, our government refuses to enforce those laws! Our county welfare office is full of illegals everyday as is our health department(mostly pregnant Mexican women and their children). How are the jobless Americans going to pay taxes to support these illegals new babies and pay for food stamps for their families? I was not opposed to guest worker programs until I finally seen the true problem with that deal, it just keeps our door open for millions more of illegals to come right on in and take advantage of us. I was told by an illegal Costa Rican I work with that "Americans are rich, you need to help feed our babies. Those babies are starving." WELL, I told him that NO ONE paid to feed my babies except ME and I am far from rich. I feel bad for the poor but we can not feed them all, especially when we have no jobs to feed ourselves anymore. Wake up NEgirl, this is an invasion going on in our country, an invasion the AMERICAN CITIZENS can not afford anymore!

Welcome from another fledging. You are absolutely right on the money. I live in Greensboro in a trailer court that was 50/50 white and black in 1994 when we first moved here from WV. As of right now, it is 90% illegals and more coming in every week. And, they all drive brand new SUVs and pickup trucks. I was laid off in 2001 and have not been able to find a full time job. My wife and I are struggling weekly to make ends meet but these people are driving BRAND NEW SUVS!!! Then, to add insult to injury, they put the stereo systems in that makes it a boom box on wheels and drive through the neighborhood blaring the mexican music as loudly as they can. How in the hell does that happen? How can they afford this stuff? OR the vans with the painting/drywall company logo on the side. I am getting so pissed off at seeing all of the babies being strolled around in baby strollers when I have to worry about how I am going to feed and clothe my 15 year old. [mod edit] Plus the fact that the illegals do not respect Americans. We have almost been run off of the road here in the trailer court. The park outside a trailer and beep the horn at 6am for the other illegal to come get into the van when people are trying to sleep. On weekends, they park at a trailer, start drinking and playing the music so loud that you can't hear concentrate on the TV show that you are watching. The local sheriffs office probably knows my phone number by heart by now. I am being over-run and the majority of Greensboro does not even know it. It is a dirty shame that these people are getting away with being here illegally and not respecting Americans or American laws. We must start making more people aware of this situation so that we, the LEGAL American citizens can start doing something about it. Sorry for the rant folks but it is getting frustrating. Have a great day Legal American citizens. Your friendly, neighborhood jarhead

Butterbean,

Just look at my first sentence in my initial post, it clearly says “ PROGRAM “ !
Or look at the line in the Topic that I think that a “ guest worker PROGRAM is lesser of 2 evils “

If you’d read my posts any better you would have noticed that I used PROGRAM as well as PROGRAMME. I use BOTH, and why not ? There’s not such as an American language, like most of you want ENGLISH to be the national and official language. And I’ve never heard anyone say that they want the AMERICAN language to be the official language. You probably older than I’m as you don’t seem to know that schools accept both type of writing. Just like I’m allowed to write : recognise instead of recognize, patronise or patronize, organise or organize etcetc.

When I make a script, I can use both types in school.
Sorry for you but nowadays schools generally accept both types.

And if I’d be English, why should I be wasting my time on an American forum regarding illegal immigration in America instead of England ?? And be claiming my ancestry as Hungarian instead of English. Wouldn’t make sense, would it ?

I’m here only because illegal immigration here in US matters to my future as I carry an US passport and my birth certificate states that I was born here in the US.

And shall I tell ya a secret ??
I feel more Hungarian than American.
Why ? Because it’s still my heritage and one should love it’s heritage.

Bob C,

Yes, I’ll stick around but won’t be posting that much as some of you.

Steelerbabe,

I don’t see any reason why I might wanna come to Pittsburgh, Pa and tell the people working in hotels and restaurants over there that they’re doing work that’s beneath them. Do you think that we don’t have any restaurants or hotels here in the Boston area ?

Lambsmarch,

It’s not an allegation that illegals doing work in restaurants, hotels, construction, agriculture etcetcetc. It was on broken borders on CNN that many illegals did such work in the state of Ga as I can remember. You must understand that the world is globalizing. We have to compete with China and India. We can’t keep the wages high here just to take only Americans. That will bankrupt our nation even more than hiring some illegals. I know it’s bad and wrong that illegals enter this country, but it’s just a consequence of a globalizing world where only ‘supply and demand ‘ counts. Sad but true. See, that’s another reason that we need some illegals to stay here and some should be deported.

And you were also talking about that it’s not fair for companies to make millions of dollars selling food to 3rd world countries. You’re right, it’s not fair. But please wake up: “when has the world ever been fair “ ???? That’s why I mentioned in my initial post that we should stick to reality too. And the reality is that the world ain’t fair.

The illegals can afford these low wages because they get medical care and education ??
Maybe, I don’t know. But what I do know or at least have heard that many illegals just waste less money on luxury and that’s why they can afford lower wages than the average American. We’ve been too spoiled, including me, that we have so much luxury and that most of us living on credit. That’s the reason why we Americans can’t afford low wages but illegals can.

Mexico indeed needs to take care of its own people, like every country should. But some countries are just not able to do so. And we’re neighbours and we still outnumber Mexican 3 to 1, so I don’t see how they can be a danger to us.

Agreed: I someone steals my car for instance, I wouldn’t steal another car from someone else to justify it.

NaturalGlenn,

Well, I DO care what people around the world think of us, as I often go abroad. And you were talking that countries like Germany, France, England and Canada deport illegals without hesitation ? Well there is a difference. Europeans deport people that might be a danger to their national security like radical imams who preach violence against the Western nations. The Europeans deport asylum seekers who went through a legal system but not suitable to stay in the country were they asked for asylum. But the Europeans DON’T deport people who have been working and living in Europe for a longer period of time. That’s why I advocated the 3 years rule in my initial post. If an illegal has been working and living here in US for over 3 years, he should be given a Green Card.

Spain recently gave amnesty to up to 1 million illegals, and Spain is a modern European Union country. Spain’s population is 1/7th of ours. So that would mean that we could easily provide amnesty to 7 million people. The Dutch were considering to deport 25000 illegals but want to give amnesty to all illegals that have been in Holland for 5 years. The Scandinavians have given amnesties in the past etcetcetc. The same with other European countries. So your example of France, Germany etcetc deporting illegals doesn’t make sense as they deport mostly radical imams or asylum seekers and not people that had been part of their society for a longer time of period. I know as I’m often in Europe, mostly Hungary of course.

Your comparison between a country and a house. Well in your pov, one can also argue that a school is also like a country and a house. As a school also has rules, costs money and has a head of it ??? Well the huge difference between a country and a house is that a house is most likely individually owned and a country is owned by all it’s citizens and people that live in it. And I don’t see why hard working illegals that have been here for over 3 years can’t become part of that country.

And I don’t have an own house as I still live with my parents, but if I had an own house I wouldn’t mind if you’d come along and we’d have a drink and chat, but NO you can’t stay or take benefit from my money. But as said, it’s my house then and so individually and a country is not.

And I’m an American teen as I wrote before and I’m not lazy at all. I do a lot of sports and work in the weekends to make some money to sponsor my extra trips to Europe as I go more than my parents. And you also stated that we need a larger young American workforce. Well don’t you understand that we in high school and college are busy enough and won’t always be able to work in our spare time. I work Saturday and Sunday double shifts, buy I have a goal to make money to go to Hungary many times a year. But many of my class mates don’t want to work after school time and they’re right. And you can’t lump us youth all together, Glenn.

Richard,

You DID say that I was a goulash eating fool and so felt the moderator and that’s why he edited your offending sentence. You probably didn’t mean to offend me, but I did feel offended. I’m not defending illegals, as I told before that they have all broken the law.
I’m just trying to say that it ain’t achievable to deport all 10 million illegals. We have to find a midway solution.

And yes, there’re indeed Hungarians planning to overstay their visas. I know some who came here on a tourist visa and are still here while they had to leave few months ago. But that’s not that bad, as they came here legally in the first place.
And many of them will go back one day. They are not any harm to anyone and how do I know ? Well, the Hungarians who overstayed their tourist visa are friends of mine form Hungary. Do you understand ?! But they are NOT illegals and I don’t see them as illegals !

Hey and it’s actually good that ya like goulash. It’s very low fat, like 2%, if you’ve good goulash. I’m still astonished that people are getting fatter here and when I go to visit some people I know in Hungary, I notice that they’re people are slim. Maybe, people here in US should eat more goulash instead of Hamburgers, LOL. Goulash with rice or potatoes are delicious. But I like Pusztapörkölt and Töltött borjúszegy.

The first is beef in a pretty sweet paprika and onion sauce and it’s served with rice/potatoes
The second is stuffed breast of veal.

Hungarian food is more diverse than the American food. Maybe I can start an Hungarian restaurant. I think people will like it.

someone else

someone also said that it's good that I'm discussing on this issue, but like I said. I should be worrying more about fashion,clothes, make up, boys, school etcetc instead of discussing here. I think there are hardly any teenagers here. And that's understandable, as most would worry/care more about the isues I mentioned above.

Quote:
And yes, there’re indeed Hungarians planning to overstay their visas. I know some who came here on a tourist visa and are still here while they had to leave few months ago. But that’s not that bad, as they came here legally in the first place.
And many of them will go back one day. They are not any harm to anyone and how do I know ? Well, the Hungarians who overstayed their tourist visa are friends of mine form Hungary. Do you understand ?! But they are NOT illegals and I don’t see them as illegals !

This is where you are 100% wrong.


QUOTE:
And shall I tell ya a secret ??
I feel more Hungarian than American.

This is very obvious.


Why ? Because it’s still my heritage and one should love it’s heritage.

We agree with you. You should love your heritage, and if you were in Hungry you should protect and defend it, as we Americans are in the process of protecting and defending ours.