Thread: I think that the Guest Worker Program is lesser of 2 evils

I just read an article somewhere about a N.O. firefighter applying for jobs in Dallas or Houston, for a forklift operator and a warehouse job.

It's still not too late to do something about Bush's plan to use illegal aliens to rebuild N.O. If we can't stop N.O. from being rebuilt, then we should be doing something to make sure Americans and legal immigrants get those rebuild jobs.

That may entail MinuteMen/Women actually doing an interior enforcement event--rally or protest or watch-- in N.O. And of course the goonies go where we go. That should be fun.

Anyway, time to call/email/write/screamfromrooftops/ANYTHING to get those people taken care of.

Either way it doesn't matter. It has been a vigorous workout.

What strikes me as interesting is that this appears to be a test as to the will of the people who re-establish the rule of law. In almost every case of a convicted felon being punished and incacerated, there is near always some excuse to mitigate their crimes. Most people in prison either didn't do it, or what they did, isn't really wrong. Classic psychopathic blame the victim. In this case, the victims are us. I guess if I had a came from a Country that crapped all over its people like messyco, I would be grasping at any straw I could to justify my illegal actions.

Here is the clue, no amnesty, it just encourages the perception of weakness. We apply the law, round up illegals, prosecute their employers and harborers and go from there. The problem will sort itself out. Do I care if industries that use illegals, pay no benefits, or any unemployment co pays, etc. etc. go out of business? I can't wait!! Then we can start re-establishing legitimacy of economy based on law. Do I care whether felonious businessmen go out of business. Na.
Will I pay more for lettuce? Na. I can do without it. One thing is for sure, America will figure out how to manage without illegals.

We don't need them, anymore than a crack addict needs more crack to break his addiction.

I waste no more time on this. newhoustongirl, you and your opinions prepare to be deported out of my mind. People here cannot be turned from the reality of regaining the lawful elements of how our country is meant to run. Sophistry is the tool of deceit and lairs. As for what happens in the rest of the world, they are not facing our levels of immigration, and frankly who cares what they are doing anyway? This is America.

It is really simple, there you go. Harboring illegals is a FELONY, and you can be subject to civil suits. cheers glenn

No time to read everyones posts here so I'll just respond to the original post.

Well, I ain’t gonna fight the guest worker program. Although I know it’s actually wrong and unjustified to the people who do take a hard effort to come here legally, but we just have to stick to reality here.
also do I know that normally an amnesty should only be an individual case and should not be applied to an entire group of people. Neither am I happy about the so called guest workers plan.

I'd like to see this happen:

You should fight this guest worker program. So you think we should amnesty criminals who have broken the law to get here? How about we amnesty rapists and murderers too? They are law breakers too. Where do we draw the line? Seriously we have laws on the books, either we enforce them or we don't. Reality is rewarding those who break our laws just encourages more lawbreaking.

1 ) First of all close our borders with Mexico and Canada for a Maximum one year period. So no tourism too for just that one year.

Wrong. Close our borders forever. A nation without borders ceases to be a nation. Just look at the history of the Roman Empire and how it fell. In a post 9-11 world it is outright insanity to leave our borders wide open for anyone to come through. We must protect our borders at all cost or our nation will fall.

2 ) Check all the people here whether they are legal or illegal.

Yes and all those who are illegal should be immediately booted from the country, no exceptions.

3 ) The illegals that have been here less than 3 year should be deported UNLESS they gave birth to infants on US Soil. Cause then the children are citizens under the constitution and it would not be nice to separate children from their parents.

Reread the 14th amendment again and get back to me. Where in there does it say that children born from illegal alien mothers are automatic citizens? There was a ruling made on that back in the early 80's, by a activist judge who made an unconstitutional ruling stating children born from illegal alien mothers are automatic citizens and tried to use the 14th amendment as reasons why. That's not what the founding fathers intended the 14th amendment for. That judge should have been removed from power after that blunder. No anchor baby citizenship should be abolished as part of any immigration remove. Just because an illegal alien mother squats on our soil and drops a kid from the womb should not make that kid an automatic citizen. Unfortunately that's the case and guess what? That kid has more rights then you do and gets access to benefits that even you the American citizen don't get, but get to pay for it with your taxes. Isn't diversity grand?

4 ) The illegals that have been here for over 3 years, can stay and should be given a Green Card. Why ?? Because I think that they have contributed to this country also.

Contributed to what? The rising cost of health care, education and housing. The shutting down of emergency rooms. The unemployment of US citizens. The crime rate in every city. The rising debt problem in many states. We should give these criminals (and yes that is what they are) a green card because they entered our country illegally and stole a job? I can see it now. Gee Mr bank robber, since you were able to rob that bank and escaped the police with all that loot, guess what, you get to keep it. How is that suppose to deter illegal immigration? How is that suppose to discourage more hordes from coming? Don't confuse legal immigrants with illegal criminal aliens.

The bush guest worker programme is going too far in my humble pov, but at least he's trying hard to deal with the issue. And that's why I think the guest worker programme should be accepted by Congress, although I do have a bad feeling with such a guest worker program. But it's the lesser of the 2 evils.

So we should just bend over an accept an amnesty no matter what because we don't want to make the effort to enforce our immigration laws. Is that what your saying? That the stupid tax payers should just STFU and pay for this atrocity? If we legalize all of these illegals we can expect to not only receive all of their family members and friends, but pay 3 times the amount we pay now in social services and benefits. Plus we'll have millions more hordes show up in a matter of months to take advantage of suckers like us who will reward them with every benefit in the book for breaking the law. Ask George Bush if he would reward you for breaking the law.

Total guest worker programme is bad, but deporting and separating parents and children from each is also bad. So I'd pick the and would support the Guest Worker Program.

I agree we shouldn't do that. That's why all illegals should be deported. Whole familes should be deported so nobody gets seperated. Guest worker program will do nothing to solve the problem. Deportation is the only answer. Deport the illegals and show some compassion and give the jobs available to the millions of unemployed US citizens at a fair wage.

And I also think that most illegals are hard working people looking for a better live. Just like my parents did when they fled communism in Hungary. They also came for a better life without oppression, so I think it would be wrong for me to bar other people to come here if they want a better life.

Although, this is what I think.

If that is the case then why is it that 30 percent of our prison population are illegal aliens. Why is it that 65 percent of our gang population are illegal aliens? Why is it that 95 percent of all homocide arrest warrants in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens? Don't tell me that they all come here to work. That is rubbish. Again you are confusing legal immigrants with the illegals. The illegals don't care about America and it's borders, language and culture. Even some legal immigrants don't either. All they care about is American dollars. Some even want to create the same chaos in America that they left behind in their countries of origin. If they all came here for a better life then first off, they would come here legally so they have no chance of getting deported, second they would learn the langauge and accept our culture, third they would swear allegiance to America and denounce their allegiance to their country of origin, and finally they would obey the laws and quit asking for handouts and suck it up like the legal immigrants of yester year did back in the day.

As a legal immigrant you should be very upset that someone would sneak in after you fought long and hard and did everything right to come here. Instead you are falling for the same falsehoods that the open borders crowd is throwing your way. They themselves don't think that entering our country illegally is any big deal and that their is no difference between legal and illegal. There is a big reason we have an immigration policy. We just simply can't subsidize the world, we can't move every single human being into America. We don't have the resources or the living space or the jobs.

I think you need to stick around here and educate yourself more on this issue before accepting what the politicos want you to accept.

<<<We don't need them, anymore than a crack addict needs more crack to break his addiction.>>>

That's how I feel about it, we as a nation have become 'addicted' to illegal alien slavery just as we once were 'addicted' to African slaves. There will be a rough period of adjustemnt as there always is when overcoming an addiction and learning to live in the real world without a crutch, for both the slaves and their owners.

Once the USA shed itself of slavery, we became a world leader. By allowing ourselves to go back in time, readopt slavery and 'return to our own vomit' we are the laughingstock of the entire planet.

We need to pick ourselves up, clean ourselves off and get back to the business of running a country the honest way; by being resourceful, hardworking, not afraid of dirt, being innovative and courageously taking risks. When's the last time the USA made any big technological breakthroughs in agriculture and botany? Probably the 1960's when we started using little brown-skinned people instead of our own brains and backs. We are fast falling behind the rest of the world in inovative technology---rather like opium users.

If we keep resting on our laurels and don't get off the crack-pipe of Mexican slaves, we will become the third-world country that we hate so much.

Here is the clue, no amnesty, it just encourages the perception of weakness. We apply the law, round up illegals, prosecute their employers and harborers and go from there. The problem will sort itself out. Do I care if industries that use illegals, pay no benefits, or any unemployment co pays, etc. etc. go out of business? I can't wait!! Then we can start re-establishing legitimacy of economy based on law. Do I care whether felonious businessmen go out of business. Na.
Will I pay more for lettuce? Na. I can do without it. One thing is for sure, America will figure out how to manage without illegals.

We don't need them, anymore than a crack addict needs more crack to break his addiction.

Amen, round them up and send them home. We need them like we need a hole in our heads. Send the employers and the illegal alien supporters to jail for aiding and abetting illegals and sedition at the very least. Make them spend ten years in jail and cease all of their assets. I don't care if the cost of lettuce goes up another 30 cents. I can tell you what will go down. How about health care, education, housing, gas prices, taxes, car payments, crime rates, sprawl, traffic for starters. What will go up? How about job wages, bank accounts and consumer buying. The possibilities are endless. I'm with you, I don't care if these businesses go out of business for breaking the law. Won't bother me at all. The sooner this happens the better. Once a few go out of business, the rest will fall in line.

Wait. Do you all say no on even farm workers? Seasonal farm workers?

If there were a legal guest worker program, those taking part in it would not be illegal. They'd come, make their money and then go home.

dman,

Just a slight point of clarification where I think you inadvertently slipped just a little. The founding fathers had nothing to do with the 14th Amendment. It was written and ratified after the Civil War to assure that children born to ex-slaves would not be denied citizenship. But you are still absolutely correct in stating that the 14th Amendment was never intended to give citizenship to children of aliens, foreign diplomats, etc. born on U.S. soil. That can be verified by reviewing the Senate record of the debate on the 14th Amendment.

Thanks for the information on how the 14th became to be interpreted as it is. I was never sure if that was due to judicial or administrative malfeasance.

Great post, analysis, and conclusions!

Yep; Even farm workers.

I figure Americans are the fattest loads on the planet. Maybe, if food was more expensive for a bit, the majoraty of people would lose a little weight.

I would be more than willing to subsidize American farmers for increased food costs for the term, until some program could be devised to allow foreign labor to re-enter America. I would make that YEARS away, so illegals will go home and agitate in Mexico and get that country to REFORM itself. This way we would develop a realistic cost for food grown here with legal labor, and mexico would become a stronger, better, more equitable nation.

For those of you who don't want food prices to go up, I'm sorry. At least the money might go to the farmers, small scale farming might pick-up. Why should Americans complain? We now subsidize non-americans to live here and take our jobs and do the same for overseas companies.

We subsidize Suadi Arabian sheiks because, well many of us drive big fat loads. Do you understand this? This is the basis of tariff protectionist national based economy. We are big enough and smart enough, we don't need global meddling. Look what it has produced!!!

Refer to Washingtons' Farewell Address, for a guide to running and retaining ownership of your own Country. cheers glenn

Quote NewEnglandGirl:
Well, I ain’t gonna fight the guest worker program.

Well, I can certainly tell you have a good grasp of the english language. By the way, what 2 words make up the contraction ain't? Or is that a new english word, and so, being old and everything, I wouldn't know what it meant? I guess I should check my dictionary for the word programme too, since I had no idea where the word program originated from. I would have never guessed it was a different (mostly foreign) spelling of the word most Americans use, which is program. (Sarcastic-in case you couldnt tell)
While I'm at it, your usage of etcetc is wrong, or at least it's annoying. It's either etc. or ecetera(s), not etcetc.
By the way, thank you for addressing each one of us that had a disagreement with you over one thing or another. You must have alot of time on your hands.

Just a slight point of clarification where I think you inadvertently slipped just a little. The founding fathers had nothing to do with the 14th Amendment. It was written and ratified after the Civil War to assure that children born to ex-slaves would not be denied citizenship. But you are still absolutely correct in stating that the 14th Amendment was never intended to give citizenship to children of aliens, foreign diplomats, etc. born on U.S. soil. That can be verified by reviewing the Senate record of the debate on the 14th Amendment.

Your right. Slight brain fart on my part.