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06-28-2006, 06:11 AM #21
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07-01-2006, 04:13 AM #22
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The Pence bill doesn't seem to do anything about controlling the borders. Apparently it's all about temporary workers. The article hints in several places that it also involves amnesty, but I suspect that's not true.
One other thing that needs to be mentioned about the Cornyn-Kyl bill is that it doesn't grant a path to citizenship for the illegals who have violated our laws by sneaking across the border. I've heard Senator Kyl say several times that there's no reason why a bill that controls our borders needs to contain any provisions for citizenship, since that is a totally different issue. So there is no amnesty in that bill. Apparently some people are confused about that too.<div>Illegal immigration - the Trojan Horse that's treated like a Sacred Cow</div>
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07-01-2006, 05:37 AM #23
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I believe the cornyn kyl bill does in fact have a "path to citizenship," tatantula. It also increases the numbers allowed in.
The devil is always in the details, of course. Have you read either of the bills?Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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07-02-2006, 02:27 AM #24
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I read the Cornyn-Kyl bill, and linked to it and paraphrased it in my previous post. I didn't see anything in there about a path to citizenship and I would be very surprised if it says that. The website seems to be unavailable at the moment so I can't double-check it. I skimmed through the Pence bill that you linked but didn't see anything about border security or citizenship.
Have you read both bills?<div>Illegal immigration - the Trojan Horse that's treated like a Sacred Cow</div>
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07-02-2006, 02:49 AM #25Originally Posted by Tarantulas
The Kyle bill allows for the illegals to leave for a few days and return. It is the same kind of Guest worker promise as the Bush legislation push.
Looking at the current state of non enforcement and the pattern that is well established there is no reason any sane American would believe that new legislation is going to be enforced regarding the departure of illegals 3-6 years down the road.
I am familiar with the enforcement parts of this bill, but there is not a lot of enforcement to be done when most of the 12 million illegals in America are granted some form of legal status one way or another.
Once we reward them in this way and further blur the lines between legal and illegal there is no way we can get a grip on this problem.
I'm not passing judgement on Senator Kyle as a person, but whoever helped him write this bill did a great job at trying to hide the poison.
The same groups pushing for open borders are pushing for national biometric ID and guest worker amnesty.
They get everything they want in this bill.
Enhanced enforcement in this bill will not reduce the number of illegals in America. It just legalizes the ones we have, puts all Americans under the thumb of full observation by big brother.
The point with Grassfire is that regardless of the good and bad in this bill, those that signed the petition had no idea their signatures would falsely be used to support this bill.
The last thing the American public needs is more tricks out of these politicians in an effort to legitimize the illegal work force these large industries have imported through their influence on the White House to paralyze our existing laws.
The Kyle bill serves those that have done this.
Take out the 5 year guest worker program and mandatory biometric ids for all Americans and the bill looks good. Those provisions are razor blades in candy.
WJoin our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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07-02-2006, 03:39 AM #26
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Originally Posted by Tarantulas
William wrote:
Take out the 5 year guest worker program and mandatory biometric ids for all Americans and the bill looks good. Those provisions are razor blades in candy.
From memory here: I believe that both bills increase guest workers and H-B1s etc. by a high number, also. That alone is a "razor blade!" Then there's all kinds of tweaks & tunes to the endless families & extended families allowed to come that these bills would include.Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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07-03-2006, 12:04 PM #27
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You need to fire whoever it is that's feeding you this information, because it's completely wrong. Let's take it point by point.
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
And our conservative Republican Senator from Arizona is named Jon Kyl. K-Y-L. Not "Kyle."
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Any individual who falsely represents that the individual is a citizen for purposes of obtaining employment shall, for each such violation, be subject to a fine of not more than $5,000 and a term of imprisonment not to exceed 3 years.
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Please read the bill. Click here to open it up in PDF format. If nothing else, please read the Table of Contents on pages 1 through 3, and take a look at the thumbnail sketch that I posted above. Whoever has been telling you about this bill is doing the country and ALIPAC a real disservice by giving you false information. This is a good bill, and it's exactly what this country needs to get a handle on the problem of illegal aliens.<div>Illegal immigration - the Trojan Horse that's treated like a Sacred Cow</div>
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07-03-2006, 12:58 PM #28
Tarantulas,
Nobody is "feeding" me this information. You have to understand that I was here at the controls when the bill rolled out. I was fighting to read through the whole bill while in conference with other groups in the movement such as FAIR, NumbersUSA, 9/11 FSA. We were all very hopeful and enthusiastic upon first review of the information.
Once we read deeper into the bill and saw Senator KYL on NATIONAL TV grinning and basking in the praise they received, the smiles hit the floor when he said
"Yes, the illegals have to leave before getting any protected status.... We can work it out with the Mexican government where they can go and special stations are set up and they can be back in a matter of a few days."
I saw it and heard it with my own eyes. Within 48 hours ALIPAC and the other groups all went sour on the bill and notified our people that this bill sucks.
I welcome open debate, but you are mistaken by trying to gauge my position being based on some hearsay or second hand knowledge.
Also, it is clear to anyone that is watching this fight closely that any promise to remove illegal aliens in 3 to 6 years should be treated with as much skepticism as someone offering you beach front property in Kentucky!
The OBLS are already making the push for those that have been here for more than 5 years. They are using the time the illegal aliens have been here and the lack of enforcement they have helped create to justify letting them stay.
The call for citizenship is irrelevant. The big corporations want their slave labor force and could care less about citizenship. They just want them to stay to buy things and work cheap.
We can never stop the flow if we reward illegal aliens with citizenship, protected status, or souped up cards that allow them to parade around without the slightest fear of deportation or enforcement.
The entire game of the OBLs is to try and break this in slowly to the public. The problem they are having is that too many Americans have found out too rapidly about this crisis and that is fueling the backlash.
Ever heard of how you boil a frog? You throw a frog into hot water and it will jump out of the pot. You put a frog in lukewarm water and turn the heat up gradually and it will stay in place and cook to death.
Senator Kyl's bill sucks because one year from now we would still have the 12 million plus people that defied our will and defied our laws right next door to us. The difference is that they would not be reportable unless they had been caught killing someone and the next wave of millions of illegals will be rushing in around them.
Since they are now registering illegal aliens to vote, the legalized illegals can easily be gathered into a voting block to vote for more "Latino" or "Hispanic" racist legislation to protect the next wave.
Illegals need to go home. It is our weakness as a Nation they are exploiting. Americans do not want them to just get 'legalized'. They want them out.
We are tired of the tricks and the deceptions and in my opinion and the opinion of many others, what Senator Kyle's bill did was a deception and what Grassfire did was a deception.
No more tricks! Illegals go home. Enforce our existing laws now and take these new legislation bills and throw them in the trash.
WJoin our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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07-07-2006, 10:31 PM #29
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Curiouspat
You write:
Why should only AMERICAN CITIZENS and LEGAL immigrants, have to obey the law?!
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07-11-2006, 04:33 PM #30
EUREKA!! Then let's enforce our laws !!
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