Thread: A voice of reason on immigration

Dxd

This site has a name Americans for Legal Immigration. Could you say what kind of legal immigration you see as good for this country if any?

For example, how many immigrants should we allow per year? And on what conditions?

RE:Could you say what kind of legal immigration you see as good for this country if any?


NO. Nor can anyone else see this at this time because the first step is to DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS and USE THE MILITARY TO SEAL OUR BORDER and only from that vantage point can legal immigration be addressed.

At this point in time now, we should maintain all current immigration levels and stabilize our population to see exactly what if any our needs are. We cannot afford the number of people in this country now. Our tax dollars do not cover the expenditures and allocations that are needed now due to the overpopulation of illegal aliens in this country who overload our social services, schools etc. If we maintain current levels of immigration that does not include giving amnesty to 12-20 million illegal aliens in this country now.

Originally Posted by hak51

After delivering to you this bad news, let me give you some hope.

I guess that there are immigrants in town that would be willing to do your husband job for $10 per hour or maybe even for less. Let us assume that we would let them do it and your husband would loose his job. Having abundance of low paid assembly line workers, your husband’s (now former) employer would be able to sell his product for less and still make more money. Therefore, he would do whatever possible to increase production; he might add new products. With increased production, your husband’s job paid $12 per hour might be replaced with two jobs paid $10 per hour.

With increased production, your husband employer would need some more experienced workers to supervise low skilled immigrant labor. Therefore, your husband would have a shot to become a foreman, for at least $15 per hour. Increased production would require more work on the maintenance of the assembly lines. Maybe, with a little training, your husband can get a job in maintenance for at least $15 per hour. With the vibrant factory in town, there will be more business in stores, more work in construction, more work in car repair shops, more schools, more taxis, and so on. If your husband is skillful enough to do more than the very basic manual labor at the assembly line, there will be more opportunities for him to find a better paid and more satisfying job.

Tell me please what is wrong with my reasoning.

Maybe you're right.

Why don't you give us some examples of where you see this happening in the country today.

CountFloyd

You ask for examples how increased immigration created more jobs for natives. With a little messy situation here it is hard to sort out a clean cut case.

However, Ireland can be a good example.

In 2004, Ireland with a population of 4 million opened its borders to immigrants from the new members of the European Union. Within the first 18 months (data by the end of 2005) about 160,000 guest workers found employment in Ireland. It is about 4% of the total population of Ireland. (For comparison, 4% of the U.S. population is about 12,000,000.) Those foreign workers helped the Irish economy to grow, and as a result, unemployment in Ireland slightly decreased. Simply, new workers filled the jobs that Irish did not want to take, but the same their work increased the productivity of the whole economy, creating new job openings that Irish gladly took. Poles, Romanian, Slovaks and others got richer, so did the Irish, and all the governments involved spent less on unemployment. In addition, some funds saved by immigrants will be reinvested in their mother countries, creating new jobs there. With the outflow of qualified workers, those who stayed behind in poorer countries are getting better pay, as Poland, Romania Slovakia and others need to keep some plumbers as well. Everybody benefits when the magic forces of the free market are left alone.

If it worked over there why it would not work here? Especially, that in reality with some limitations it works, despite that Congress made it illegal.

dxd

Like many politicians, you want to resolve the problem of illegal immigrants and illegal border crossing first, and then fix the currently not functioning legal immigration system. It is like pumping water from a sinking boat first, and fixing the hole in the bottom of the boat later.

In my approach, before we would decide what to do with illegal aliens, we would need to know how we want to handle legal immigration in the future. Therefore, for the sake of discussion, we need to put the current immigration mess aside, and agree on a system of legal immigration that is good for the country, and that would not cause us such havoc again. Knowing where we are heading, we can go back to the currently illegal immigrants and decide if and how some of them might be allowed to legalize their status.

Reading your postings, I suspect that only what you represent is hate against illegal immigrants and you have no clue how to deal with legal immigration. Let me remind you one more time, this site is called Americans for Legal Immigration. Is it anything you can contribute to this community on this subject?

However, Ireland can be a good example.

I wasn't asking about Ireland. I was asking about the US.

Please post some examples of how illegal alien workers enhance productivity and create better jobs for American citizens. We are, after all, talking about illegal aliens on this site.

Originally Posted by hak51

CountFloyd

You ask for examples how increased immigration created more jobs for natives. With a little messy situation here it is hard to sort out a clean cut case.

However, Ireland can be a good example.

In 2004, Ireland with a population of 4 million opened its borders to immigrants from the new members of the European Union. Within the first 18 months (data by the end of 2005) about 160,000 guest workers found employment in Ireland. It is about 4% of the total population of Ireland. (For comparison, 4% of the U.S. population is about 12,000,000.) Those foreign workers helped the Irish economy to grow, and as a result, unemployment in Ireland slightly decreased. Simply, new workers filled the jobs that Irish did not want to take, but the same their work increased the productivity of the whole economy, creating new job openings that Irish gladly took. Poles, Romanian, Slovaks and others got richer, so did the Irish, and all the governments involved spent less on unemployment. In addition, some funds saved by immigrants will be reinvested in their mother countries, creating new jobs there. With the outflow of qualified workers, those who stayed behind in poorer countries are getting better pay, as Poland, Romania Slovakia and others need to keep some plumbers as well. Everybody benefits when the magic forces of the free market are left alone.

If it worked over there why it would not work here? Especially, that in reality with some limitations it works, despite that Congress made it illegal.

hak
there's one little piece of vital information that isn't included in your stats and example pertaining to Ireland.

The only reason why Ireland's economy boomed in an unprecedented manner was due to the outsourcing of foreign companies - including a majority of tech companies - to Ireland. It was the very first time since the famine that they had any economy to rave home about.

Now, while Ireland {EU} boomed, much of the EU began to fail, in part, due to "immigration" of low skilled/no skilled labor.

I can't speak for others, however, it's my belief that when we're debating and discussing the pros and cons of this situation, ALL aspects of info should be laid on the table in the name of fairness.

SIDE NOTE re: Free Trade

there's something ominous & disingenuous about calling dealings with Nations who OWN the companies {such as DUBAI Ports & Mex Oil} as FREE TRADE. How does one have "free trade" with nations that do not allow entreprenurial endeavors? That are not privatized? Who have total control over the resources they're selling?

It's not possible to be "free trade & capitalism" if the Nation controls the flow of the capital. This is GLOBALISM, not Free Trade/Capitalism. It's Capitalism hijacked!

This is also an extremely dangerous situation that we've found ourselves in....deep doo doo this GLOBALISM. And it won't survive unless there's a free flow of "migrants" driving down wages in industrialized nations and raising wages in 3rd world nations = a leveling out of wages and a REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH from the progressive to the underpriviledged.

This is also the UN plan for world migration

CountFloyd

Economic mechanisms work the same everywhere.

Your asking for USA example would lead to bias choices and bias opinions we have different interpretation of the facts that are taking place here right now.

For example Mayor Bloomberg of New York believes that thanks to immigrants the economy of this city is doing much better than it would without them.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_ ... n_hearings

I know that the Mayor Daley of Chicago believes the same. He gave strict orders to the Chicago police not to inquire about immigration status during the routine police stops. In his opinion, this might encourage illegal immigrants moving out of town, harming the vibrant economy there. Actually, Chicago looks like at its peak of economic prosperity now.