Thread: A voice of reason on immigration

hak

Reading your postings, I suspect that only what you represent is hate against illegal immigrants and you have no clue how to deal with legal immigration. Let me remind you one more time, this site is called Americans for Legal Immigration. Is it anything you can contribute to this community on this subject?

You might not want to put the people down that you are trying to convince. Seems you are for globalism, are you?

Originally Posted by hak51

CountFloyd

Economic mechanisms work the same everywhere.

Your asking for USA example would lead to bias choices and bias opinions we have different interpretation of the facts that are taking place here right now.

For example Mayor Bloomberg of New York believes that thanks to immigrants the economy of this city is doing much better than it would without them.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_ ... n_hearings

I know that the Mayor Daley of Chicago believes the same. He gave strict orders to the Chicago police not to inquire about immigration status during the routine police stops. In his opinion, this might encourage illegal immigrants moving out of town, harming the vibrant economy there. Actually, Chicago looks like at its peak of economic prosperity now.

Where are you located? In New York or Chicago?

I certainly can't speak of the situation in Chicago although the Daley's are a long line of cheats, thieves and liars. One might think that the apple didn't fall far from the tree in this case.

However if it's New York, that's a bit closer to my experiences and Mayor Bloomberg is DEFINITELY A LIAR. There's no validity to his mindless statements and Illegals as well as Legal Immigrants are straining the City's social services, medical facilities and crime is amazingly more violent and rising as we speak. The New York school system is practically falling on it's face and humpty dumpty won't be able to get that one put back together unless it's completely dismantled and rebuilt - without Illegals and perhaps excessive legals to boot. They can't even graduate a high percentage of kids without giving them "relief" from testing &/or dumbing down the testing.

So, we'll be needing a better example than NY and perhaps Chicago as well. After all, most of us do know that Chicago's in deep doo doo along with the rest of the larger cities. Blacks are really being left behind now as they cater to the "cheap laborers."

I know........Let's RAISE TAXES and that will help to push the problem under the rug for a while longer. Until they bled the turnip dry.

RE:Reading your postings, I suspect that only what you represent is hate against illegal immigrants and you have no clue how to deal with legal immigration.

If does not at all concern me what you "suspect"

Like I said:
There is no shortage of arm chair experts who do not live the reality of the illegal alien invasion but yet feel that some how they are qualified to write about and/or speak to this subject.

hak pt houie

Originally Posted by hak51

... Ireland can be a good example.

But probably isn't.
Not insignficant is the fact that a person can physically WALK across the US-Canadian, or US-Mexico border almost totally unimpeded - often without consequences after the fact. 'Sneaking' into Ireland isn't quite so easy.... Sure, someone could try it by boat, but I suspect that might prove to be about as, or even more dangerous, as it would be to trek across stretches of SW desert. Or, they could hop a flight and gain entry as a tourist, and then overstay their visa - but, I suspect, that the Irish gov't puts at least a token effort into checking up on visa overstays (something we fail miserably here in the US).

Some of it comes down to sheer geography - the presence of physical barriers helps deter people from even attempting the journey and thereby help maintain the desired population base.... And, of those entering Ireland nearly all do it through a port-of-entry and/or airport - establishing some official contact with authorities charged with monitoring/managing foreign individuals.... Although, the experience of island nations is not entirely unique, they do have some rather atypical characteristics which can make their border management (ie. control over the movement of people and goods) much easier than many other nations.

We (the US) have circumstances of a quality and quantity that Ireland will never have to worry about.

Everybody benefits when the magic forces of the free market are left alone.

I don't buy that. It's the 'winners' who benefit.

Originally Posted by hak51

Dxd

This site has a name Americans for Legal Immigration. Could you say what kind of legal immigration you see as good for this country if any?

For example, how many immigrants should we allow per year? And on what conditions?

ALIPAC supporters. Please disregard questions of this nature from this person. He is attempting to bypass our disclaimer about the boards and is seeking comments from the general public and supporters to attribute them to our organizational stances.

The current immigration law did not work as intended, and it resulted in millions of aliens working here illegally. Many politicians want to try to resolve the problem of illegal immigrants and illegal border crossing first, and then fix the currently not functioning legal immigration system. It is like pumping water from a sinking boat first, and fixing the hole in the bottom of the boat later.

In my approach, before we would decide what to do with illegal aliens, we would need to know how we want to handle legal immigration in the future. Therefore, for the sake of discussion, we need to put the current immigration mess aside, and agree on a system of legal immigration that is good for the country, and that would not cause us such havoc again. Knowing where we are heading, we can go back to the currently illegal immigrants and decide if and how some of them might be allowed to legalize their status.

There are two reports on immigration, published on my website. The first one, http://www.ALIPAC.US "Migration to the future" is more general. The second one, http://www.ALIPAC.US “Neither immigration nor reform”, is more a polemic with the currently proposed HR.4437 and S.2611. The front immigration page http://www.ALIPAC.US is just an outline, with multiple links to the corresponding arguments within the two reports.

By the way who among those calling me names here read what I wrote on the subject and published on my website?

www.ALIPAC.US

Originally Posted by hak51

ALIPAC

My focus is on finding out the system of the legal immigration that might work.

Many politicians try to resolve the problem of illegal immigrants and illegal border crossing first, and then they want to fix currently not functioning legal immigration system. It is like pumping the water from the sinking boat first, and fixing a hole in the bottom of the boat later.

In my approach, before we would decide what to do with illegal aliens, we need to know how we want to handle legal immigration in the future. Therefore, for the sake of discussion, we need to put the current immigration mess aside, and agree on the system of legal immigration that is good for the country, and that would not cause us such havoc again. Knowing where we are heading, we can go back to the currently illegal immigrants and decide if and how some of them might be allowed to legalize their status.

Hak51,

Our immigration system is not BROKEN. It is paralyzed by corporate political financial influences. The system has been shifted to practical non enforcement while other parts of our government and private sector are facilitating the invasion.

This is a case of an influential grouping of interests subverting the American public and the Constitutional form of governance in America.

We do not need new solutions. As you can see, America has dealt with these issues before and while we certainly do not have to be as clumsy as past efforts due to our improved technologies, we can reverse this situation.

Reverse it we must or you can kiss all of the good things America stood for short of cheap products goodbye. This issue is about the will of the people and our form of Governance... you know, the things all our soldiers killed and died for.

Our existing laws are adequate but as we have learned they have been unenforced and since we see large corporate interests spending millions to elect politicians that server them, and they have made their goals clear, it does not take a brain surgeon to determine WHY our laws are not being enforced.

This is not one nation under McDonalds and Wal-Mart, and your "new way" solutions seek to placate these corporate interests that have superseded their authority. In fact, these corporations have ZERO authority on policy matters in our Constitution.

You have come here and accused good people of HATE as their motivating factor while trying to spread your "New System". Same old song that is not working if you have not noticed.

Economic growth based on rapid population expansion and population shifting is a short term fix to try and stop the economic implosion that has resulted in the financial and corporate excesses.

Those politicians and corporate elites responsible for this disaster would love to divert all of our attention to terrorists and immigrants, but we are learning more about them and who is responsible every day.

When this is all over, some of the politicians and Ken Lay's on your side of the issue will be in prison for their criminal betrayal of the citizens of the United States of America.

You can express and debate your opinions, but if you keep fishing for organizational statements on our boards in defiance of our rules and accusing people of being hateful without evidence then you are going to get the boot.

No character attacks and rule violations are allowed here.

Our organization already has a platform, thanks.

William

You are published on a racist website called La Raza . com?

http://www.laraza.com/print.php?nid=4&origen=2

ALIPAC Activists, please do your homework and research on the opposition that comes here.

W

Originally Posted by hak51

Your asking for USA example would lead to bias choices and bias opinions we have different interpretation of the facts that are taking place here right now.

I simply asked you to show us where what you've asserted below is occuring now in the US.

I guess that there are immigrants in town that would be willing to do your husband job for $10 per hour or maybe even for less. Let us assume that we would let them do it and your husband would loose his job. Having abundance of low paid assembly line workers, your husband’s (now former) employer would be able to sell his product for less and still make more money. Therefore, he would do whatever possible to increase production; he might add new products. With increased production, your husband’s job paid $12 per hour might be replaced with two jobs paid $10 per hour.

With increased production, your husband employer would need some more experienced workers to supervise low skilled immigrant labor. Therefore, your husband would have a shot to become a foreman, for at least $15 per hour. Increased production would require more work on the maintenance of the assembly lines. Maybe, with a little training, your husband can get a job in maintenance for at least $15 per hour. With the vibrant factory in town, there will be more business in stores, more work in construction, more work in car repair shops, more schools, more taxis, and so on. If your husband is skillful enough to do more than the very basic manual labor at the assembly line, there will be more opportunities for him to find a better paid and more satisfying job.

Tell me please what is wrong with my reasoning.

So far, you've been unable to do so. That's what's wrong with your reasoning.