Thread: Shocking Lou Dobbs Video! Opinions Needed ASAP

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

Well, LAPhil, I've thought this out for about 5 years now. You deputize unemployed Americans, give them a little training, get them some warrants that instead of saying "looking for marijuana growing in the home", they say "looking for illegal aliens in the home" or "school", or "hospital" or "work place" or "restaurant" or "Walmart", and go place to place and arrest them. If police can barge into the homes of US citizens with a no-knock warrant, kill their dogs, tie them up, shoot them or worse .. looking for drugs, then we can certainly knock with a warrant and look for illegal aliens. Why exactly would you or anyone else have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it other than I don't think it's as simple as you do. First of all, there wouldn't be enough unemployed Americans who would even be willing, let alone able, to do this kind of thing. Another problem would be knowing where all the illegals are living before you go after them. If you didn't know and just made random searches, I guarantee you there would be blood in the streets. Americans simply would not put up with something which is so reminiscent of Nazi Germany and would be seen as a total disregard of our rights as free citizens to not be subject to unreasonable searches and seizures in our homes. And even if no violence were to occur there would be lawsuits galore. If you wanted to do workplace raids, that might catch a lot of them, but there is no practical way to search them all out and deport them. You say it wouldn't cost that much? Just think of the total time it would take. If there are 20 million illegals here and you can get 50 on a bus, do the math. By my calculation, that would take 400,000 bus trips to the border. And how many of those do you think could be in a day? 100, maybe 200? Let's say 200. 400,000 divided by 200 is 2000, and 2000 days is approximately equal to 6 years. So I guess it could be done, but the country would go even further into debt trying to pay for it. As I said, I have no problem with the concept, but there are easier ways to deal with this.

Well, we have 3,140 County Sheriffs Departments in the United States. So it wouldn't take long and if they Deputized Americans to assist, it wouldn't cost very much either. The number we're working against is $300 Billion a year which is the cost of illegal aliens in the US. So a Sheriff's Department could deputize 100 citizens or more in larger cities, train them on the rules and procedures, they wear a little vest that says "Deputy", you break them up into teams, they do their research and investigations, get their warrants and "knock, knock, hello, here's our warrant, we're here to search for illegal aliens".

I don't see a problem with it at all, and I think it would go very smoothly.

And if there are easier ways to deal with this, then by all means use every way available, easy ways, hard ways, every way we can come up with, that's what "by all means necessary" is about. But, we can no longer let people like Obama, Dobbs, Clinton or anyone else tell US, "it can't be done", because of course it can be done, it must be done, and it will be done, because that is our law.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

Well, LAPhil, I've thought this out for about 5 years now. You deputize unemployed Americans, give them a little training, get them some warrants that instead of saying "looking for marijuana growing in the home", they say "looking for illegal aliens in the home" or "school", or "hospital" or "work place" or "restaurant" or "Walmart", and go place to place and arrest them. If police can barge into the homes of US citizens with a no-knock warrant, kill their dogs, tie them up, shoot them or worse .. looking for drugs, then we can certainly knock with a warrant and look for illegal aliens. Why exactly would you or anyone else have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with it other than I don't think it's as simple as you do. First of all, there wouldn't be enough unemployed Americans who would even be willing, let alone able, to do this kind of thing. Another problem would be knowing where all the illegals are living before you go after them. If you didn't know and just made random searches, I guarantee you there would be blood in the streets. Americans simply would not put up with something which is so reminiscent of Nazi Germany and would be seen as a total disregard of our rights as free citizens to not be subject to unreasonable searches and seizures in our homes. And even if no violence were to occur there would be lawsuits galore. If you wanted to do workplace raids, that might catch a lot of them, but there is no practical way to search them all out and deport them. You say it wouldn't cost that much? Just think of the total time it would take. If there are 20 million illegals here and you can get 50 on a bus, do the math. By my calculation, that would take 400,000 bus trips to the border. And how many of those do you think could be in a day? 100, maybe 200? Let's say 200. 400,000 divided by 200 is 2000, and 2000 days is approximately equal to 6 years. So I guess it could be done, but the country would go even further into debt trying to pay for it. As I said, I have no problem with the concept, but there are easier ways to deal with this.

Well, we have 3,140 County Sheriffs Departments in the United States. So it wouldn't take long and if they Deputized Americans to assist, it wouldn't cost very much either. The number we're working against is $300 Billion a year which is the cost of illegal aliens in the US. So a Sheriff's Department could deputize 100 citizens or more in larger cities, train them on the rules and procedures, they wear a little vest that says "Deputy", you break them up into teams, they do their research and investigations, get their warrants and "knock, knock, hello, here's our warrant, we're here to search for illegal aliens".

I don't see a problem with it at all, and I think it would go very smoothly.

And if there are easier ways to deal with this, then by all means use every way available, easy ways, hard ways, every way we can come up with, that's what "by all means necessary" is about. But, we can no longer let people like Obama, Dobbs, Clinton or anyone else tell US, "it can't be done", because of course it can be done, it must be done, and it will be done, because that is our law.

I think it's a good idea and could be done. Would it be allowed?? I don't know.

Originally Posted by Judy

[Well, we have 3,140 County Sheriffs Departments in the United States. So it wouldn't take long and if they Deputized Americans to assist, it wouldn't cost very much either. The number we're working against is $300 Billion a year which is the cost of illegal aliens in the US. So a Sheriff's Department could deputize 100 citizens or more in larger cities, train them on the rules and procedures, they wear a little vest that says "Deputy", you break them up into teams, they do their research and investigations, get their warrants and "knock, knock, hello, here's our warrant, we're here to search for illegal aliens".

I don't see a problem with it at all, and I think it would go very smoothly.

And if there are easier ways to deal with this, then by all means use every way available, easy ways, hard ways, every way we can come up with, that's what "by all means necessary" is about. But, we can no longer let people like Obama, Dobbs, Clinton or anyone else tell US, "it can't be done", because of course it can be done, it must be done, and it will be done, because that is our law.

So let's say we send out these "deputies" to do their house-to-house searches and that the people are willing to go along with it. What do they do with the illegals when the apprehend them? Load them into their squad cars and deposit them in a holding cell while they await their departure without so much as a deportation hearing? Would they all have powers of arrest like police officers and security guards? I guarantee you a lot of otherwise law-abiding people would resist this as draconian and a violation of their civil rights, and that would be a major problem we'd have to deal with. It sort of reminds me of what Obama and his cohorts wanted to do with people they considered to be undesirables. Remember the request to report "suspicious activities" by sending e-mails to the White House? Sorry, but this would never fly in the real world.

Also, where did you get that $300 billion figure? The most extreme estimate here in California for the annual cost of illegal immigation is about $10 billion per year, and California has at least 15% of the illegal alien population in the country. That would make the national figure more like $60 or $70 billion, but I don't really want to argue numbers here. And what about the other question I asked, which is how "we" can do this when the federal government won't?

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

We have to do this, because it is self-evident that the federal government never will.

And could you explain this one to me? How can "we" do this if the federal government won't?

Under federal law our local and state law enforcement has the authority to arrest illegal aliens.

USC Title VIII, Chapter 12 ... Section 1324. The media has tried to claim this law doesn't exist, but it does and here it is, scroll down to the section that says "authority to arrest":


"TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324

"§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

"(c) Authority to arrest

"No officer or person shall have authority to make any arrests for a violation of any provision of this section except officers and employees of the Service designated by the Attorney General, either individually or as a member of a class, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc ... -000-.html

________________________________

Every Sheriff's Office of which there are 3,140 departments, every Municipal Police Department of which are are over 19,000, and every State Highway Patrol department, of which there are 50 can arrest illegal aliens and anyone bringing them in or harboring them.

That's almost 24,000 police departments whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws in the United States. If on average they each deputized 100 people to assist them, then that's 2,400,000 citizens helping 24,000 police organizations to arrest, detain and deport 20,000,000 illegal aliens.

That's less than 9 illegal aliens per citizen over the life of the project. Once this starts how long do you think it would take for illegal aliens to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road home on their own? And since bringing in and harboring is a crime, how long do you think it would take for the US citizens aiding and abetting this travesty in our country to tell their employees, their renters, their relatives to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road out of their home, property and work place?

This is what I mean by "we have to do this because we already know the federal government never will."

US citizens have to tell their 3,140 sheriffs, and their 19,000 police chiefs, and 50 Governors, we've had it, we're done, we're no longer waiting on the federal government to enforce our laws. Instead, we're going to require you, our Sheriffs, our Police Chiefs, our Thin Blue Lines, our State Troopers who obviously have ample time on their hands to hound Tiger Woods 3 times because he backed into a fire hydrant and hit a tree one night, or Michael Phelps because someone took his picture smoking a bong, or Paris Hilton driving down the road after having a couple of drinks at a party, that we don't want your focus on Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps or Paris Hilton.

We want your focus on the international global invasion of the United States. We want your undivided loyalty and uncompromising allegiance to your duty to enforce our criminal laws starting with immigration laws. And we have 2,500,000 unemployed, underemployed and even employed Americans, ready, willing and able to assist you in that endeavor who want to be deputized to help you in completing the task of a) arresting those who aren't supposed be here so they can be deported from US soil and b)prosecute those who brought them in or harbored them while they were here.

If "we do this", they'll all be out of here in less than 1 year.

Well, Judy, I can't really say much more, but I really have to give you credit for your tenacity in this discussion. You've apparently done more thinking about this than most people, and your ideas would work in a perfect world where people value the law for its own sake and aren't so willing to look the other way or succumb to political correctness at the cost of breaking the law. Maybe someday we'll get there. I'm a little tired tonight, so I think I'll sign off here. Good debating with you.

If we do this the way Judy has suggested I bet within a few weeks of implementing a lot of illeagals will begin mass self deportation.

I think looking at the illegals as the problem is the wrong approach.

The wrong is in why they are here.

If this were corrected we would have little or no problem. First step...take away the entitlements. How?:

I would file a class action suit on behalf of the citizens of the United States:

The Social Security System was set up as a TRUST FUND. Those that understand how a Trust works know it is against the law to appropriate money for anything other than what the trust was set up for. Using that money for entitlements or any program is forbidden and illegal.

Promising to pay it back is irrelevant and we all know it will never be paid back. And even if it were it will be payed with worthless inflated dollars now. This has been a monstrous travesty of Justice. Making unwilling people...forcing them to support illegal immigration is not only wrong...it is illegal.

The men and women that payed into the SS Trust fund in good faith for their retirement and family protection have been defrauded by this entitlement scam.

Electing new guys or throwing out others is not going to do a thing (except for Ron Paul). Learning and understanding the law and piloting law suits to bring to bare on the violators will have impact. File suit and prosecute those responsible. Stop the illegal use of illegal laws being written. Talking heads and news men will not do it.

Bring back the Constitution. It worked for many years. It will work again if we LEARN to support it.

Second I would have congress (they have this power) to stop the naturalization of kids born to illegals. Kids should be the Nationality of the parents or mother.

I would also like to try a "voluntary" deportation program. It may work some...at least it would be the cheapest approach. If only a few thousand...so what. It takes one apple to start filling the barrel. And at the very least it would be wonderful to be able to point and say... "Hey...you don't like it...Call 1-800- deport me now!"

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

We have to do this, because it is self-evident that the federal government never will.

And could you explain this one to me? How can "we" do this if the federal government won't?

Under federal law our local and state law enforcement has the authority to arrest illegal aliens.

USC Title VIII, Chapter 12 ... Section 1324. The media has tried to claim this law doesn't exist, but it does and here it is, scroll down to the section that says "authority to arrest":


"TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324

"§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

"(c) Authority to arrest

"No officer or person shall have authority to make any arrests for a violation of any provision of this section except officers and employees of the Service designated by the Attorney General, either individually or as a member of a class, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc ... -000-.html

________________________________

Every Sheriff's Office of which there are 3,140 departments, every Municipal Police Department of which are are over 19,000, and every State Highway Patrol department, of which there are 50 can arrest illegal aliens and anyone bringing them in or harboring them.

That's almost 24,000 police departments whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws in the United States. If on average they each deputized 100 people to assist them, then that's 2,400,000 citizens helping 24,000 police organizations to arrest, detain and deport 20,000,000 illegal aliens.

That's less than 9 illegal aliens per citizen over the life of the project. Once this starts how long do you think it would take for illegal aliens to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road home on their own? And since bringing in and harboring is a crime, how long do you think it would take for the US citizens aiding and abetting this travesty in our country to tell their employees, their renters, their relatives to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road out of their home, property and work place?

This is what I mean by "we have to do this because we already know the federal government never will."

US citizens have to tell their 3,140 sheriffs, and their 19,000 police chiefs, and 50 Governors, we've had it, we're done, we're no longer waiting on the federal government to enforce our laws. Instead, we're going to require you, our Sheriffs, our Police Chiefs, our Thin Blue Lines, our State Troopers who obviously have ample time on their hands to hound Tiger Woods 3 times because he backed into a fire hydrant and hit a tree one night, or Michael Phelps because someone took his picture smoking a bong, or Paris Hilton driving down the road after having a couple of drinks at a party, that we don't want your focus on Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps or Paris Hilton.

We want your focus on the international global invasion of the United States. We want your undivided loyalty and uncompromising allegiance to your duty to enforce our criminal laws starting with immigration laws. And we have 2,500,000 unemployed, underemployed and even employed Americans, ready, willing and able to assist you in that endeavor who want to be deputized to help you in completing the task of a) arresting those who aren't supposed be here so they can be deported from US soil and b)prosecute those who brought them in or harbored them while they were here.

If "we do this", they'll all be out of here in less than 1 year.

Just one little tiny problem...THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL NOT BACK YOU. In fact they will prosicute you. For more about this call Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Phoenix. He knows alllll about it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/3 ... d=28162737

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

[Well, we have 3,140 County Sheriffs Departments in the United States. So it wouldn't take long and if they Deputized Americans to assist, it wouldn't cost very much either. The number we're working against is $300 Billion a year which is the cost of illegal aliens in the US. So a Sheriff's Department could deputize 100 citizens or more in larger cities, train them on the rules and procedures, they wear a little vest that says "Deputy", you break them up into teams, they do their research and investigations, get their warrants and "knock, knock, hello, here's our warrant, we're here to search for illegal aliens".

I don't see a problem with it at all, and I think it would go very smoothly.

And if there are easier ways to deal with this, then by all means use every way available, easy ways, hard ways, every way we can come up with, that's what "by all means necessary" is about. But, we can no longer let people like Obama, Dobbs, Clinton or anyone else tell US, "it can't be done", because of course it can be done, it must be done, and it will be done, because that is our law.

So let's say we send out these "deputies" to do their house-to-house searches and that the people are willing to go along with it. What do they do with the illegals when the apprehend them? Load them into their squad cars and deposit them in a holding cell while they await their departure without so much as a deportation hearing? Would they all have powers of arrest like police officers and security guards? I guarantee you a lot of otherwise law-abiding people would resist this as draconian and a violation of their civil rights, and that would be a major problem we'd have to deal with. It sort of reminds me of what Obama and his cohorts wanted to do with people they considered to be undesirables. Remember the request to report "suspicious activities" by sending e-mails to the White House? Sorry, but this would never fly in the real world.

Also, where did you get that $300 billion figure? The most extreme estimate here in California for the annual cost of illegal immigation is about $10 billion per year, and California has at least 15% of the illegal alien population in the country. That would make the national figure more like $60 or $70 billion, but I don't really want to argue numbers here. And what about the other question I asked, which is how "we" can do this when the federal government won't?

Oh that number was calculated by a group, I saw it again just recently on ALIPAC. It includes lost jobs and deflated wages, education, health care, federal dollars, state and local dollars.

The $10 billion a year in California is just state dollars for only 3 areas: education, health care and incarcerations. The cost of illegal immigration on the American People is enormous. Take 10 million jobs at $20,000 a year ... that's $200 billion in lost incomes for American Workers. Harvard calculated the cost of deflated wages for Americans who still had jobs was another $50 billion a year and that was 4 years ago. Americans spend over $400 billion a year on MediCaid for 51 million people, approximately, 18 million households because the adults in the household don't a) have a job or b) the job pays so little they qualify for MediCaid. Half of these households have at least 1 adult that is working but their wages are so deflated they can't sustain themselves. The other half doesn't have a job available to them. Illegal immigration is responsible for both the unemployment and the underemployment from deflated wages that qualifies 51 million Americans for MediCaid, now add in HUD Housing, food stamps, free school lunch, etc, etc., etc. and the cost is more than even that group reported. The cost of illegal immigration is horrendous on the American People. It has to be stopped cold in its tracks and the deportation action taken and completed.

I believe Deputized Citizens are the right ones to do this. After all they are the ones who are paying for the consequences through lost jobs, bankruptcies, unemployment and deflated wages, so you know they will do the work either for free or at no cost to save their own livelihoods and their country from financial ruin.

Plus I think there's a strong psychological impact that's beneficial to solving this problem. It allows Americans to do the job the Feds wouldn't do and illegal aliens probably won't like coming face to face with Deputized Citizens, so I think they'll want to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road, because they know that Deputized Citizens aren't going to be very sympathetic to their sob stories and complaints. I also think it has an important role to play in putting National Council of La Raza, MALDEF, LULAC, ADL, ACLU, SPLC, etc., etc., etc. and ALL their funders and sponsors, that aiding and abetting, bringing in and harboring, lobbying and advocating on behalf of illegal aliens is no longer "politically correct" in the United States.

Originally Posted by sk1951

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

We have to do this, because it is self-evident that the federal government never will.

And could you explain this one to me? How can "we" do this if the federal government won't?

Under federal law our local and state law enforcement has the authority to arrest illegal aliens.

USC Title VIII, Chapter 12 ... Section 1324. The media has tried to claim this law doesn't exist, but it does and here it is, scroll down to the section that says "authority to arrest":


"TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324

"§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

"(c) Authority to arrest

"No officer or person shall have authority to make any arrests for a violation of any provision of this section except officers and employees of the Service designated by the Attorney General, either individually or as a member of a class, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc ... -000-.html

________________________________

Every Sheriff's Office of which there are 3,140 departments, every Municipal Police Department of which are are over 19,000, and every State Highway Patrol department, of which there are 50 can arrest illegal aliens and anyone bringing them in or harboring them.

That's almost 24,000 police departments whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws in the United States. If on average they each deputized 100 people to assist them, then that's 2,400,000 citizens helping 24,000 police organizations to arrest, detain and deport 20,000,000 illegal aliens.

That's less than 9 illegal aliens per citizen over the life of the project. Once this starts how long do you think it would take for illegal aliens to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road home on their own? And since bringing in and harboring is a crime, how long do you think it would take for the US citizens aiding and abetting this travesty in our country to tell their employees, their renters, their relatives to gather, pack, gas up and hit the road out of their home, property and work place?

This is what I mean by "we have to do this because we already know the federal government never will."

US citizens have to tell their 3,140 sheriffs, and their 19,000 police chiefs, and 50 Governors, we've had it, we're done, we're no longer waiting on the federal government to enforce our laws. Instead, we're going to require you, our Sheriffs, our Police Chiefs, our Thin Blue Lines, our State Troopers who obviously have ample time on their hands to hound Tiger Woods 3 times because he backed into a fire hydrant and hit a tree one night, or Michael Phelps because someone took his picture smoking a bong, or Paris Hilton driving down the road after having a couple of drinks at a party, that we don't want your focus on Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps or Paris Hilton.

We want your focus on the international global invasion of the United States. We want your undivided loyalty and uncompromising allegiance to your duty to enforce our criminal laws starting with immigration laws. And we have 2,500,000 unemployed, underemployed and even employed Americans, ready, willing and able to assist you in that endeavor who want to be deputized to help you in completing the task of a) arresting those who aren't supposed be here so they can be deported from US soil and b)prosecute those who brought them in or harbored them while they were here.

If "we do this", they'll all be out of here in less than 1 year.

Just one little tiny problem...THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL NOT BACK YOU. In fact they will prosicute you. For more about this call Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Phoenix. He knows alllll about it.

Yes, that is a "little tiny problem". But look at it this way. Every politician in the US government has claimed for the past 5 years that they don't have the resources to deport illegal aliens and they think there's only 12 million of them. Well, there's 250 million Americans. So they can bark, howl, whine and cry all they want ... but the US Government has no means at all to take on our Sheriffs, our Police Departments, our State Highway Patrols, our 2.5 million deputies or 250 million Americans--because they don't have the resources, the law or the right to do anything to any of US except help US enforce our laws.

And like Sheriff Joe, every Sheriff, Police Chief, State Trooper and Deputy just needs to ignore the feds, go about their business and get the job done, and then we'll all throw these useless traitors out of our government in 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2016.

We have to do this, because we already know the federal government never will. We have to use our county, city and state law enforcement agencies assisted by Citizen Deputies to do this. We can be disgusted with our federal government, we can even puke when we think about these traitors, but what we must never do is be afraid of the federal government. We must never be afraid to be wrongfully arrested or wrongfully prosecuted for saving our country from the ravages of illegal immigration. So, be of good cheer and stout heart, because we're right, and they're wrong. The US Law, the US Constitution and the Will of the American People are on our side, not theirs.